If everyone hates their airline why not quit

[SkyBoy1981]

BTW Chief, this isn't your squad and some of those 25 year olds are going to be your Captains. Better get used to it bud.

 

[DirkkDiggler]

I don't know what you're talking about. I go to work, fly, and then come home. I NEVER talk to management, unless I need a new parking pass. If you're dealing with management and getting frustrated, you're doing that to yourself. Nobody who comes into this career with their eyes open struggles with the stress you described. I'm not here to change my company. I'm here to fly, fill out my logbook, and move on, and I'm damned sure I'm going to enjoy it while I'm here. The people who get pissy are the ones who think they are going to change things within their company. They think they deserve more money. (If you think you deserve more and you're still working there, isn't that kinda like whoring yourself out?) They think they deserve better schedules. (Outside changing the contract, this one's not going to change unless it saves the company money) It's kinda like Greenpeace being up in arms over the environment even though it does no good. They get all bent outta shape over something that's out of their control and then they get ulcers and high blood pressure while the rest of us just cruise and enjoy our lives as much as we can given the choices we have in front of us. If you don't like your airline, you would be doing yourself and your family a great service by finding a better job.

 

[DirkkDiggler]

Oh and yes, thank you for you service OI812, sincerely.

Now you say you like what you do, get back to me in a few years. And Dirkk, you are right I do enjoy flying a 727 around the sky. Few can experience it, but I am seeing that in the post 9-11 era I will not be able to make a living in this profession. Taking care of my family and financial obligations are not being met. There was a future at the majors when I got started in this in the late 90's. It is now all gone! Unless you want to spend your career at the regionals, there is no future at the majors. I would venture to guess that only 10% of pilots who seek the majors will actually be hired there. And I cannot survive at regional pay scales.

Well then the choice for you is fairly obvious isn't it? There's no fighting economics and the free hand of capitalism. Unfortunately we are all having to adapt to our futures. That's part of the business. Always has been.

 

[sbn340mech]

So was anyone going to answer the original question, or are you all perfectly happy with your jobs. (dosen't really sound like though)

 

[jetfo]

first off u choose to commute i doubt anyone is forced. i will bet everything i have that your company never said you cant move to your city domicile. so dont tell me they force you to commute

and second i was just giving an example of a tough schedule. what you have is nothing

I agree with some of the other posts, you have no idea what you are talking about, yet. Give it some time.

First, you'll be all excited about your new job as an "airline pilot", how cool is that.

You'll love to fly turbine or jet aircraft to all of these new places.

And, how cool is it to jumpseat on those big airliners and talk to those great experienced pilots at the "majors."

And, those travel benefits.

Soon, you'll be able to hold a line and you'll be living the dream.

A dream that means that you will be spending sometimes 20+ nights away from home a month and your family.

That in exchange for the equivalent of minimum wage or less, when you consider that you'll be at work 3.5 hours for every hour you fly, not counting rest periods, and 14+ hour days on average.

Not even counting your expenses, which your per diem will never cover unless you brown bag it, difficult if not impossible, and you don't commute.

Go enjoy that burger and a coke for $10 at the terminal.

During your time off you'll be recovering from your trips and I doubt that you'll ever travel anywhere with your benefits. You won't have the time anyway, you'll just be glad you're home.

Until now you will have believed all of the cool aid that management fed you at the beginning, including more airplanes and that short upgrade.

Then, perhaps in six month or maybe a year later reality sets in and you'll become disappointed and frustrated.

Another year later, if you have stuck with it that long, you will find that you'll be as disillusioned as the rest of us.

Some of it is inevitable human nature, you never appreciate what you have and you always want more and better.

But, some of it are the realities of this lifestyle and the associated pitfalls that we all have to deal with daily.

I believe most of us would agree that the flying part is great, it's just all of the other BS that goes along with it that we hate.

Best of luck at TSA in any case and Merry Christmas.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

I don't know what you're talking about. I go to work, fly, and then come home. I NEVER talk to management, unless I need a new parking pass. If you're dealing with management and getting frustrated, you're doing that to yourself. Nobody who comes into this career with their eyes open struggles with the stress you described. I'm not here to change my company. I'm here to fly, fill out my logbook, and move on, and I'm danged sure I'm going to enjoy it while I'm here. The people who get pissy are the ones who think they are going to change things within their company. They think they deserve more money. (If you think you deserve more and you're still working there, isn't that kinda like whoring yourself out?) They think they deserve better schedules. (Outside changing the contract, this one's not going to change unless it saves the company money) It's kinda like Greenpeace being up in arms over the environment even though it does no good. They get all bent outta shape over something that's out of their control and then they get ulcers and high blood pressure while the rest of us just cruise and enjoy our lives as much as we can given the choices we have in front of us. If you don't like your airline, you would be doing yourself and your family a great service by finding a better job.

Yes, I'm one of the few that are still in the fight to protect the profession. I think you need to realize that the bottom is coming for you, even if you have a better job. My current company is a legacy carrier, which used to top out at about $300,000 a year and have amazing QOL. When you get that better job, the one I already have, you will again see you moved up to the same exact thing you left. But this time it gets even worse, the regional stress is a far cry away from the stress at the majors. Trust me, it's easier to go from $23,000 a year to $17,000 a year, then going from $150,000 to $45,000(NewCo rate). Sure go to a carrier like SWA or JetBlue, wait until NWA gets newco flying 100 seat jets at regional rates. SWA can not compete against this new carrier model, I've seen the numbers, newco can offer 75% lower fares and turn a profit. SWA and JetBlue, get ready for your $100,000 pay cut.

 

[pipejockey]

Well then the choice for you is fairly obvious isn't it? There's no fighting economics and the free hand of capitalism. Unfortunately we are all having to adapt to our futures. That's part of the business. Always has been.

Well you can't blame me for being angered by the fact that the career I have chosen is being flushed away and being replaced with a shell of what it once was. I spent my younger years and much money on something that has disappeared after getting too deep into it. I now don't have the finances to get an education in another field, not to mention I am well into my 30s now.

But you are right, the choice is obvious, but I can no longer whore myself out to companies that could not give a rats ass about me. And I fully admit, I am whoring my self out by accepting the working conditions I have.

 

[DirkkDiggler]

Don't get me wrong, I wish future wages in this industry were as high now as they've ever been. I'd be a fool to want to do the same job for less money if I had a choice. The problem is we don't have a choice. Free market economics are what is dictating pay and ticket prices. I for one am a fan of free market capitalism. I think it's one of the things that makes this country great. Right now we're dealing with the problems of deregulation. Things are finally coming to a head and before too long, all the airlines will be playing on the same playing field once again. Southwest has had the advantage for a long time and I hope parity will be here soon. Once that happens, this industry will become more stable again and this time it will be a more lasting stability than in the past. There's nothing we can do about it, and I'm against unions interupting the free market. Salaries and ticket prices will reach an equilibrium with fuel prices and pilot supply and things will get better. In the meantime try not to be so negative about things that are out of your control. You'll live longer.

 

[shelton]

I am going to give some attempt to settle all this. First, one cannot expect to come on this board with such a tone and inherent lack of respect and get any kind of answer worth anything. To compare wartime military schedules to the schedule of an airline is, as early mentioned, comparing apples to oranges or more accurately apples to dogs. There is absolutely no need to have a pissing contest over who works harder or who has worked a day in their life or not. If one wants the real answer to his question he is better suited to come at it with more respect.
[FONT=&quot]Here is the reason guys/girls do not leave the airline industry(at least from my eyes) despite all the complaining that seems to happen and some other random thoughts I have on the industry.
1) Most pilots have put in huge investments of time and money and do not want to walk away from all that. It is kind of like the beaten wife who will not leave her husband.
2) We have hope that the industry at some point in the future will turn around in the pilots favor. In that, once again there will be a shortage of pilots instead of the huge surplus.
3) Although I do believe in a free market it occurs to me that the market, when dealing with the airline industry, is artificially off set. I think it may be because of this that first year FOs are paid 19,000 a year and for the same reason why airlines will not raise ticket prices. Please note that this is just a theory of mine and I have no research to back it.
4) As far as commuting goes. It is, of course, the choice of the pilot to commute or not. However, it can be very difficult to move a family to a different location giving consideration to: children, schools, thoughts of the spouse, moving on such low pay and understanding that being furloughed is a real issue, the list goes on. That being said it seems that a little compassion to individual circumstances could go a long way.
5) Schedules. I do not know about the schedules at other airlines, but the lines at mine have gone straight down hill. Pilots accept the fact that they will be gone from their families for days, but then they want days to be at home. I grew up where a solid work ethic was a requirement to be a man, but even more so a husband has a responsibility to his family. This causes a lot of the bitching because there is a struggle between providing financially for the family, the love of flying(which will only last so long), and actually being home to be a part of that family.

I say all that to say two things: First I hope that I have answered questions about why pilots stay at their job even if all they do is complain. Secondly, coming across as a hard ass/straight shooter without considering the thoughts and situations of others, although ones right, hardly makes him seem thoughtful or intelligent, but instead gives the impression of being immature and unprofessional.
[/FONT]

 

[DetoXJ]

If any of thes large regionals out there, (Mesa, XJT, XJ, 9E, Eagle, Comair, Colgan, ASA ect.) offered unpaid internships for newhire FO's there would be people banging down the door to get one. Unpaid for the 1st year and then you get a guaranteed interview to be placed at the bottom of the seniority list with zero longivity. Sad but true, tons of UND and ERAU 250 hour wonders would be lined up around the block to sign up. The only thing that will change regional pay is if new hires would stop taking the job for current wages.

 

[OI812]

ok ok i give up
this isnt exactly where i was going with this\

i just wanted to know why stay somewhere ya dont like

so i will wait and see for myself and after 6 months and i feel tha same as everyone else i will come pesonally say i was wrong and apoligize

 

[jetfo]

I doubt that anyone is looking forward to your apology. We just all hope that things will turn around in this industry and that quality of life and income will improve for all concerned.

 

[RichardRambone]

Absolutely true but how could we communicate that message to us young brats looking to fly? If the wages arent good enough, DONT TAKE THE JOB. We are all taking shatty jobs so we can move up to wherever but it sounds like moving up has become an oxymoron. I ferry planes and clean them and other office bs but I'd even have to take a pay cut to go to a regional. Give me break. What I fly isnt as important as if I can pay my bills. Its starts at the bottom and works its ugly way up. If we keep accepting things the way they are, there wont be changes, only downhill slides.

 

[jws717]

looking at the airlines from the outside is a very strange perspective, atlanta must look like an amusement park to you. All sorts of big jets rolling around. Ive been there myself, but after 6 months the jet boner goes away and it is just a job. A job that can be very exciting at times but more often very stressful. You must also realize that many pilots do not have direct information about what is happening at their airline, rumors are a way of life, many are real some are BS. And i am sure you complain about your job as a CFI to people as well.

 

[OI812]

looking at the airlines from the outside is a very strange perspective, atlanta must look like an amusement park to you. All sorts of big jets rolling around. Ive been there myself, but after 6 months the jet boner goes away and it is just a job. A job that can be very exciting at times but more often very stressful. You must also realize that many pilots do not have direct information about what is happening at their airline, rumors are a way of life, many are real some are BS. And i am sure you complain about your job as a CFI to people as well.

actually i really enjoy instructing and have seriously thought about staying at it, but there comes a time to move on.