IBT 1108 Flex Union

[FastJP4]

hauling,

Just curious why you are so fearful of folks turning in their cards and allowing a vote? There are pro's and con's to both sides - why be afraid for the pilots at Flex to vote and determine which way they want to go? NetJets laid the groundwork for your pay "proposal". The "proposal" was NOT because management decided they wanted to give a raise to the pilot group - the pay "proposal" is to buy off the union drive. Management fears a union - if they didn't - they would be doing nothing but sitting on their respective arse. NetJets raised the bar, FlexJet needs to continue it. That will require the other Fracs at some point to do the same - or deal with a lack of interest from the skilled and experienced. Keep the momentum from your brothers at NetJets moving forward to help the others out there.

 

[doh]

why does everyone else wish flex to send in their vote card? Is it becasue you aren't happy with your union so you want flex to be miserable with you?

You still haven't said what perfect non-union job you have. Are you a Flex pilot or do you fly (work) some where else? Are you in aviation? As far as what I think of unions, I base it on personal experience. I used to volunteer at my old job. I went to a conference about 9 months before I left. A national officer was there. The discussion got around to the "one list" issue ( a hot button at the time), and he told me to my face that one list would never happen. Reason? He said "a guy coming out of the military doesn't want to start out on a little plane like that and we have to look out for our squadron buddies." Now his squadron buddy is a great American, a great patriot, and a great pilot no doubt. But there is one thing he is not, and that is a dues paying union member. When I pointed out to this national union officer that the union is supposed to represent it's members and not non members, he told me "that is just how it is". So based on my personal experience, I would say NO to joining. And remember hauling, if you are on the property before the union gets in, you do not have to join, and you do not have to pay fees of any sort. But I have nothing against a vote, if the majority wants a vote on the issue.

 

[EdAtTheAirport]

I have to remind myself after I read this board that 98% of the NJ guys are awesome guys. The few pukes that spew on this web site are the exception.

One of you mouthy types, please answer this question: If Shares gets a phenomenal pay raise - either with or without a union, do you think any FJ guys will tell them they got it "on our coattails," "because of us," "you owe us thanks" etc?

 

[Fozzy]

so Hauling, what perfect non-union job do you work at?

Answer the question!
Oh wait, you are flying a chitbox making paperboy wages. I bet the wife will enjoy supporting you for the rest of your "career".

Open your eyes!

 

[John MClain]

Answer the question!
Oh wait, you are flying a chitbox making paperboy wages. I bet the wife will enjoy supporting you for the rest of your "career".

Open your eyes!

He flew the panel or the right seat at ATI and is now a Flexjet CL300 right seater. He is also clueless and unfortunately represents a large number just like him at Flex.

 

[haulingthemail]

He flew the panel or the right seat at ATI and is now a Flexjet CL300 right seater. He is also clueless and unfortunately represents a large number just like him at Flex.

I am at Flex and proud to say it. I was at ATI in the right seat before the WONDERFUL TEAMSTERS couldn't get a contract ironed out. And at Eagle prior to that. So I've had my fair share of UNIONS and it's my right, opinion, and choice not to support, be apart of or send in a card for another. Just it's yours to want to be apart of one.

I enjoy the hell out of my job, maybe it's because I've worked hard in my last 16 years as a pilot and have seen how "good" a union can screw things up. So don't bash me for not wanting to be apart of one.

Fozzy, you can bash me, that's your choice, but leave my wife out of this! got it?!

 

[Ultra Grump]

There's a big difference in meaning between "apart" and "a part." Which is it?

 

[haulingthemail]

There's a big difference in meaning between "apart" and "a part." Which is it?

well if you can't figure it out then you need more help. So what I fat fingered the keys.... A PART

 

[doh]

I am at Flex and proud to say it. I was at ATI in the right seat before the WONDERFUL TEAMSTERS couldn't get a contract ironed out. And at Eagle prior to that. So I've had my fair share of UNIONS and it's my right, opinion, and choice not to support, be apart of or send in a card for another. Just it's yours to want to be apart of one.

I enjoy the hell out of my job, maybe it's because I've worked hard in my last 16 years as a pilot and have seen how "good" a union can screw things up. So don't bash me for not wanting to be apart of one.

Fozzy, you can bash me, that's your choice, but leave my wife out of this! got it?!

ATI and Eagle ?!?! OMFG! No wonder you want nothing to do with unions! You, my friend, have been FUSCHED six ways from Sunday!:uzi: And I am sure your wife is a nice lady.

 

[Ultra Grump]

well if you can't figure it out then you need more help. So what I fat fingered the keys.... A PART

Sorry, "typo" doesn't cut it. "Fat-fingering" the keys would imply you knew how to type it correctly but made a typing error. The error is between your ears in not knowing the difference between the two. When you are attempting to convey a thought in the written word, you might want to make an attempt to actually use the correct word. It makes it so much easier for the reader. The reader shouldn't have to "figure it out."

 

[doh]

Sorry, "typo" doesn't cut it. "Fat-fingering" the keys would imply you knew how to type it correctly but made a typing error. The error is between your ears in not knowing the difference between the two. When you are attempting to convey a thought in the written word, you might want to make an attempt to actually use the correct word. It makes it so much easier for the reader. The reader shouldn't have to "figure it out."

His is an orthographical error, not a typographical error. Now that we have that out of the way, I would like to know why it is so important for you to run hauling down for his mistakes? There are tons of orthos and typos made on this board every day, but you ignore the vast majority of those. Could it be that you are trying to shame him because you hope to silence his opinion? Say it ain't so! I have not seen you correct anyone who agrees with your opinion so I'm just curious...

 

[warlord19]

Re all you Flexjetters.I've been at Flex a long time, and don't spend much time here at this UNION WEBSITE. I live in a market economy, and my wages are set by the market..this year QS set the "market" standard. Flex will continue to come up with a market package every year, treat you well, and you save 1.5% of your BEFORE TAX wages.

 

[realityman]

warlord,

First off, congrats to all you Flex guys with the pay raise. It's a good thing for everyone.

Second, I could care less whether you, CS, or anyone else brings a union on property. If the majority of the pilots there don't want a union, you won't have one. End of story.

And finally, just out of curiosity, has Flex come up with a 'market package' every year up till now? Other than money, what was in this 'package' you speak of? I'm not putting down your raise at all. Really. I think it's great. And personally, I don't care if it was because of 1108, or an aligning of the planets, or your managers got lucky the night before and were feeling generous. No matter what, it's a good thing. But when you mention package, I'm just curious what else you got? And when you mentioned them coming up with something every year, I'm curious if this is a yearly thing, or have been promised it'll be a yearly thing?

By the way, it's great you aren't paying 1.5% of your salary towards a union. I just want to point out that you have admitted that NJA set the market bar this year (and did it back in 2005 too). Who do you think is responsible for that? Hint: It wasn't a generous NJA management. So considering where NJA has now placed the bar, I don't think you'll find but one in 100 pilots (at NJA) who thinks the 1.5% is a bad investment. It's like anything else, it's only a bad investment if you don't get a return on it. I gotta tell ya, my union dues were a bad investment prior to 1108. I don't feel that way anymore.

Oh, and my union dues are tax deductible, so in the end, I'm really only paying something like 1.2%. It's not a hardship.

Like I said, if you don't need or want a union, fine. It's no skin off my back. Just wanted you to know that it hasn't been a bad thing for us. Just wanted you to know in case you thought we were upset over the dues.

 

[EdAtTheAirport]

Reality,

In recent days, I've come to dislike pushing the "FlightInfo" button on my browser. I thought the battle was over, but it seems that it's gone Karen Carpenter. (It's "Only Just Begun." Get it???)

Thank you for your understanding of the non-union sentiment among an apparent majority of us at FJ. It was a very cogent observation of yours that what really matters is that the bar is raised in the Fractionals as a whole. Between the two of our groups (NJ/FJ), it's "Let the good times roll." At least in terms of money.

I'm not anti-union universally. I was more than ready to send my card in, but wanted to see what our Mgmt had to say. I guess I have to admit to being "bought off" by money, and retain the hope that we can make some of the the QOL improvements without the IBT. (The rest issues are do-able, but I doubt if we'll ever get a gateway list like yours.)

As for what role NJ played in this, I have a beef with you guys. What difference does it make if you guys, personally, each one of you, walked on water and demanded that our management give us a raise??? You're acting like insecure high school girls, and tarnishing the great reputation that you've built, at least in my mind. You're giving credence to the "misery loves company" pov that many have suggested.

Let the good times roll. Thank you guys for your help. Keep it coming. (If I can speak for us) we appreciate it.

 

[Fozzy]

I am at Flex and proud to say it. I was at ATI in the right seat before the WONDERFUL TEAMSTERS couldn't get a contract ironed out. And at Eagle prior to that. So I've had my fair share of UNIONS and it's my right, opinion, and choice not to support, be apart of or send in a card for another. Just it's yours to want to be apart of one.

I enjoy the hell out of my job, maybe it's because I've worked hard in my last 16 years as a pilot and have seen how "good" a union can screw things up. So don't bash me for not wanting to be apart of one.

Fozzy, you can bash me, that's your choice, but leave my wife out of this! got it?!

Okay calm down tough guy. I am sure your wife is Miss USA 2002. Hell, if it was not for my wife backing me up in my earlier years, well I just don't know.
After seeing what your prior Union experience is, I don't blame you for being gun shy.

I have done both Union and non Union. I will stick with 1108 or who ever we become.

Good luck. You may need it.