IBT 1108 Attempts to take NJASAP funds

[imacdog]

Not to sound arrogant but NJASAP has larger membership numbers and higher paid pilots. There is no need to try to take money from the FO pilots because NJASAP has a much higher income from dues.

 

[CastofThousands]

A couple of Flight Options pilots got played by the IBT to be party to the Hoffa political hack attack. Don't try to fool the rest of your pilot group now. It only makes things worse.

Correct it and move on to securing a solid contract.

The NetJets pilots told the Teamsters to stick their fabricated trusteeship where the sun don't shine. The Flight Options pilots should do the same.

It only takes a backbone...

 

[CastofThousands]

at least we agree on that.......

oh, and personally i'm in support of all the money that was left to FLOPS. to insinuate that we at netjets wanted to keep more than what was agreed to keep for ourselves is ridiculous. The fact of the matter is that we didn't announce our separation until March 17. Prior to that the IBT had no interest in us (one of the problems). Netjets pilots controlled the Eboard and the finances. We could have raided the cupboard 6 months ago and left FLOPS with zip.

Flight Options pilots received the autonomy they asked for and $1.7 million in cash/assets. There is no reason a solid contract shouldn't be secured, sooner rather than later.

>$1.2 Million in the investment account
>$50,000 in the checking account
>$377,000 to be paid by NJASAP

The IBT shouldn't hesitate to match the cash left by the NetJets pilot group. That would be $3.4 Million to bring a new contract home.

 

[CastofThousands]

After reading 21 pages on this topic its hard to look through all the BS. I know the FLOPs 1108 president well and I don't believe any of this FUD some of you NJ guys are posting here. He is a man of integrity and I stand by him.

Mat and AJ are good people - they just missed the call on this one by teaming up with the IBT against the NetJets group without so much as a courtesy call to 1108 President Rountree and 1108 Sec/Treas Weeber.

The NetJets pilots left $1.7 Million behind when the discussed and negotiated handover target was between $1.2 and $1.5 Million.

BM lied to Mat and AJ saying the Local was in the red. Mat and AJ didn't cross-check. Events took over when Mat and AJ started hitting the banks without checking with Rountree and Weeber. Then, there is the missing check that was stolen out of the Local and deposited in a CLE bank.

Such is life - The IBT failed

 

[IDEtoNJA]

Options_SLAVE,

Would you mind answering or commenting on the questions I have posted in post #270 and #281?

I hope the constitutes of Local 1108 have asked their leadership the same or similar questions. Would you mind informing us of the answers the leadership of Local 1108 gives you?

As a concerned member of the newly formed NJASAP, I would like to hear and see the evidence that lead to the events that transpired, and, to the allegations made against the current and former leadership of the NetJets pilots.

Thanks,
IDEtoNJA

 

[gunfyter]

how much money has IBT DC invested in FLPS pilots so far?

how much have NJ pilots invested in Flops pilots?

So the personal rep of the guy who has nothing invested in you claims we want to rip you off and you believe him?

 

[CaveoFalco]

.......

I ask again - WHERE is the money that the net jets pilots donated for the RIF pilots? It never made it out of the Net Jets leadership's hands to the Local. How low is that to steal money from those already standing in the bread line?

The money ($3200 and change) is sitting in a bank account waiting for the FLOPS leadership to decide how to disburse it. The NJASAP leadership is accountable for that money and will not just blindly and irresponsibly hand over donations without the plan. The NJASAP leadership has communicated several times over the last couple of months with both the FLOPS President and the Sec/Treas requesting their plan and as of today have not received it. Once the plan is forthcoming we will send them the donations.

 

[TORCH67]

Voice and Slave, I really feel sorry for you both. Anger, fear and denial is natural when people you thought you could trust have betrayed you. I'm glad you don't speak for the rest of your pilot force!

If anybody is sabotaging your contract talks it's the IBT and the pilots that don't believe enough to even pay dues! You have a steep hill to climb and making enemies with your biggest supporters is not the answer! I hope when the smoke clears and you see the truth you can move on.

Actions speak louder than words!!!!

 

[Ultra Grump]

From what I have read in this thread, my opinion is that you Flops pilots can take that $1.7 mil WE GAVE YOU and go have a big circle jerk with it. I'm glad to be rid of you.

It is patently obvious that Slave was one of the 2 dimwitted culprits - or perhaps the lover of one of them. He has far too much inside information to be otherwise. I used to support you and your cause, but no more.

If you (Flops pilots) don't have any better sense than to see through his lies, you deserve to fail and I hope you do.

Good riddance.

 

[netjetwife]

I never doubted that the money was being handled responsibly but thanks, Caveo, for the explanation. My family made one of the first donations and in spite of the transition trouble I would still like to show support to the pilots who were wrongly terminated (obviously they had nothing to do with this problem) and to their spouses and children who are definitely innocent bystanders in all of this, even more so than the FltOps line pilots who were not consulted on the decisions that were made.

May ethics and fairness prevail,
NJW

 

[birddogg01]

From what I have read in this thread, my opinion is that you Flops pilots can take that $1.7 mil WE GAVE YOU and go have a big circle jerk with it. I'm glad to be rid of you.

It is patently obvious that Slave was one of the 2 dimwitted culprits - or perhaps the lover of one of them. He has far too much inside information to be otherwise. I used to support you and your cause, but no more.

If you (Flops pilots) don't have any better sense than to see through his lies, you deserve to fail and I hope you do.

Good riddance.

Thanks for the support. That was touching.

 

[birddogg01]

Mat and AJ are good people - they just missed the call on this one by teaming up with the IBT against the NetJets group without so much as a courtesy call to 1108 President Rountree and 1108 Sec/Treas Weeber.

The NetJets pilots left $1.7 Million behind when the discussed and negotiated handover target was between $1.2 and $1.5 Million.

BM lied to Mat and AJ saying the Local was in the red. Mat and AJ didn't cross-check. Events took over when Mat and AJ started hitting the banks without checking with Rountree and Weeber. Then, there is the missing check that was stolen out of the Local and deposited in a CLE bank.

Such is life - The IBT failed

It looks like to me your beef should have been with BM from the beginning. Mat and AJ don't deserve to be slandered on this board. This is only hurting the FLOPs pilot group and creating animosity between the two pilot groups.

 

[Grizz]

It looks like to me your beef should have been with BM from the beginning. Mat and AJ don't deserve to be slandered on this board. This is only hurting the FLOPs pilot group and creating animosity between the two pilot groups.

When you let someone manipulate you into doing something illegal - especially when you are going to eventually run a Local, that is a problem.

When you do so without even checking with people that have been incredibly supportive of you, that's a real problem.

Mat & AJ should have known better. If they were unsure, they should have asked.

 

[vref25]

If the FO leadership was so concerned about the finances of local 1108 why did your now president of local 1108 was the lone man opposed of the motion of hiring an outside auditor to review the local 1108 books from April of 08 to July 11th... Which was is standard business practice of changing leadership. It was done on July 9th at an open board meeting of the E-board of local 1108. I would suspect the minutes are available from your e-board.

Riddle me that batman or slave......

 

[CastofThousands]

It looks like to me your beef should have been with BM from the beginning. Mat and AJ don't deserve to be slandered on this board. This is only hurting the FLOPs pilot group and creating animosity between the two pilot groups.

I couldn't disagree more. I am a big believer it's best to always keep the pilots informed; open, honest, and transparent. Meanwhile, never hesitate to share the reality of the situation and what the group as a whole is facing. They're big boys and girls - they can handle it. Then ask the pilots for help, and lead them.

It's always served the group I've had to lead well and the group has never let one another down. The NetJets pilot have known what their reps are doing and how their doing it 24/7/365 with all the cards on the table. The NetJets pilots have always been used as counsel and consensus at 1108 - in an open form - with direct and continuous dialog to and from their leadership.

If leaders can't handle genuine criticism, offer intellectual solutions and arguments, and then do the right thing, the sooner the pilot group as a whole knows, the better.

Always be open and honest with the pilot group - they are the true engine that moves the machine; company and union. Always make sure they know the challenges they face. With the knowledge and options at hand, the pilots never let good leadership down.

After all, it's the pilots' Union; not the IBT's or Hoffa Jr's. That should never be forgot or misunderstood. The leadership, Hoffa Jr, and the IBT as a whole work for the pilots - not the other way around!

Learn from every situation and press on with the goals ... don't look back and don't look to others ... step it up and close the deal. Only the pilot group can close the deal and I can assure everyone there is a HUGE opportunity here for the Flight Options pilot group.

Don't ever let the IBT think you work for them. THEY WORK FOR YOU, THE PILOTS! Make sure they understand that. If they don't... internal bruising is not off the menu.

All my best,

 

[Intreped1]

What kind of leaders are/were they if did not consult with ALL parties involved?

Plain and simple. They were misled puppets of B.M. for the sneak attack.

Feel sorry for them if you will ,but it proves they weren't worthy enough to really lead or they would not have done what they did.

I wish the FO pilots the best and hope they can become stronger by this and eventually catch up to the caliber of the NJA pilots.

 

[TurboHonda]

What kind of leaders are/were they if did not consult with ALL parties involved?

Plain and simple. They were misled puppets of B.M. for the sneak attack.

Feel sorry for them if you will ,but it proves they weren't worthy enough to really lead or they would not have done what they did.

I wish the FO pilots the best and hope they can become stronger by this and eventually catch up to the caliber of the NJA pilots.

Perhaps you don't mean to, but you're coming across as a bit condescending. The caliber of the FLOPS pilots is just fine.

 

[FLYLOW22]

I will be curious to see what a true IBT only Collective Bargaining Unit will get for the FLOPS pilots during this bargaining cycle.

I still wish you all the best. After reading this board and our own NJASAP I can say that I have read truly disturbing things from many people... many sources.

One thing is certain... It's done now. I still wish the best for the FLOPS guys personally. Going forward, you will be your own worst enemy or invaluable best resource.

Bill Moore is a truck driver. Be prepared to be treated as such. Watch him.

 

[steelersrule74]

The simple fact is, I don't know MS or AM so I will not make comments regarding character. I will also say that early in my time at NJA I was a vocal supporter of Local 284. 284 was my first Union and (being prior military) I was convinced that you support your leaders and have faith.

I was wrong.

I say with all sincerity that it is the job of every pilot to question their leadership. You must be diligent, thorough and relentless. The cost of my blind faith was 3 years of delay and the 2004 POSTA. Any leader of your local must at any time be willing and able to justify their actions. That doesn't mean you agree with them, but it creates the transparency critical for your success.

the pilots at NJA have had direct dealings with IBT and bill moore for several years. It is our considered opinion that while you must work with IBT for your success, allowing them to infiltrate your local is a tactical error with tremendous consequences.

quite frankly, I'm beyond caring about the events of last week. The deal is done, we have our loan and are moving forward. As a fellow pilot and union brother however I must warn you that your Local is now in a very precarious position. A deal to provide you with autonomy and money has been corrupted and now you don't have the first and may not have the second in the future.

It is absolutely critical that in this dangerous time you engage your leadership and ask the hard questions. Do not make the mistake we did of blind obedience. Work together, stay strong and you have a good chance of success. Look the other way and trust bill moore to give you the contract you desire and you will be sorely disappointed.

carry on........

 

[Freedom]

All about Cast of Thousands EGO

I don't want to slam the Man, so I won't.

But if you go back through all of this thread, and view his Posts, especially the one by "Phoenix", you will have a pretty good idea of just how high up the NetJets Pilot's leadership pole this guy sat. As in the top.

Yet he finds it acceptable to start publishing, on a Public Website, financial numbers and membership percentages that if true, could seriously hurt the Flight Options Pilots Negotiating position with our Manangement.

Why would he do such a thing? I thought his Beef was with the National and these two Flight Options Leaders (who by the way, I view as Heroes in this process).

The answer should be pretty obviously to anyone with half a brain. Either the NetJets Leadership was planning to transfer funds that they had no legal right to, into an NJASAP account, and our Leaderships actions stopped them, or what I hope is the case, this former E-Board President had his feelings hurt because the Flight Options Pilots Leaders, under the Direction of the National, went in and made a Preemptive Strike to assure the Resources which rightfully belonged to the remaining IBT 1108 Members (Flight Options Pilots) could not be raided at the 11th hour.

There is absolutely no excuse for the behavior of the former E-Board President on this website which directly hurt the Flight Options Pilots, none.

What he did by revealing confidential numbers (which may or may not be accurate) on this website was the Act of a Child.

The former Executive Board President of the 1108, INTENTIONALLY set out to harm the Flight Options Pilots by revealing this confidential information.

It should be obvious to all that he was placing his EGO ahead of the interests of the Flight Options Pilots.

This action gives a clear picture of the man's True Colors. Now that he is no longer a part of the IBT 1108, he could give a crap about the Flight Options Pilots. When he was the leader of the 1108, he not only wanted the Options Pilots to do well as members of the 1108, but also wanted Citation Shares and FlexJet Pilots to sign up.

This man's EGO seems to be larger than the Mountains around which he lives. And this EGO, is now harming the Flight Options Pilots. That is something I cannot stand by and watch.

I am a Hostage. I sacrificed my Job for this fight. I will not let this former Executive Board President come in here and attempt to harm my fellow Pilots and our Cause unchecked.

That is all.

Freedom is Not Free