I need some serious advice guys

[Fuzzy_is_Hungry]

You will typically need 500 hours to be hired for cargo, and that is usually single engine time.

1000 hours to be competitive.

500 TT to fly cargo? Maybe if you want to be a gear bee-atch in a Beech 99, and pay to be there.

You need: 135.243(c)

 

[ToiletDuck]

$10 there flying TurboProps or $14 instructing flying 152's... hrm.

 

[Flechas]

$10 there flying TurboProps or $14 instructing flying 152's... hrm.

Paying the bills, not paying the bills hmmm....

Unless mommy and daddy are taking care of that, and even then, those who do PFT are a disgrace to the industry. Do you realize how abad this industry is? Pilots taking paycuts everywhere, we are showing management how easy we bend over when they ask us to.

 

[ToiletDuck]

As you said paying the bills or not paying the bills.... In long term which earns you a seat faster? Multi or single time? Which investment of time will payoff more? I'm not standing up for the schools but I understand why they exist and how they can be beneficail. Mommy and Daddy don't pay any bills but they do pay for training. And if a school like that is my only other way then I'll take out a loan and go there. I do consider myself fortunate to be able to go should I need to. And like everyone else when a good opportunity shows itself it would be foolish not to take advantage of it.

 

[Flechas]

Do a search on PFT, GIA, or TAB, we have posted enough about it here.

 

[bobbysamd]

P-f-t

Gulfstream does not operate its ab initio school anymore;

What do you mean by this? I know two people who are there now.

I understood you to be asking about instructing Part 61/141 students at Gulfstream and not enrolling in its pay-for-training opeation.

Ab initio means training students "from the beginning," i.e. zero time. Gulfstream used to operate a Part 61 flight school that trained students from the beginning for their Commercial-Instrument-Multis. It no longer operates that school.

Whoring oneself? Why do you see it as that? You're paying for training just like I am now.

At the moment, you are paying for education and flight training for your cetificates. P-F-T is an employment issue. As a condition of being hired, you agree to give the company money to pay for the training it is obligated by regulation to provide you. Such training is a cost of doing business, but companies that are P-F-T figure they can find enough people who are so desperate to be pilots that they'll pay for their training. P-F-T is, therefore, buying a job.

P-F-T is an abusive practice that hurts other pilots, because the paid-for jobs are required by regulation and would otherwise be filled by hired employees. P-F-T "pilots" take away those jobs. Pilots who worked hard to achieve their goals strongly resent those who try to end-run the system.

Aside from that, you need to understand that piloting is still just a job. It is embarassing and humiliating to most people to grovel in front of an employer by buying a job - especially a job that can be had for free if one is patient and builds the experience needed to qualify for that job.

And if it gets you in the cockpit of something that's awesome . . . .

. . . and, of course, fun. Yeah, everyone wants to fly something awesome.

That comment alone shows that you missed the point, above, about aviation being work. Once more, piloting, while enjoyable and interesting, is still work. There comes a time in life when one has to grow up and work, even in jobs that might not be fun but can lead to better things. Just think about it. Finally,

I do consider myself fortunate to be able to go should I need to. And like everyone else when a good opportunity shows itself it would be foolish not to take advantage of it.

Real airlines have interview boards made up of pilots, most of whom, again, resent those such as P-F-Ters who try to end-run the system. If you P-F-T and get to an interview, your background will emerge, and the pilots about whom I just wrote just might blackball you. Is P-F-Ting still a good opportunity? You probably won't listen, but you have been warned.

 

[BluDevAv8r]

From one Baylor Alumn (Dec '93) to another....

Christian Cook
www.jeppbracket.com

I'd be happy to chat with you. Let me know anytime you have some questions.
[email protected]

Yea...but you're an old fart Christian.

By the way, thanks for the Jepp bracket - its great. I still haven't figured out how to get it to work in the new birds with the super duper sunshades. Ideas?

...sorry for the thread drift.

-Neal

 

[Flechas]

Yea...but you're an old fart Christian.

By the way, thanks for the Jepp bracket - its great. I still haven't figured out how to get it to work in the new birds with the super duper sunshades. Ideas?

...sorry for the thread drift.

-Neal

Same here, although I don't get to fly those very often.
By the way Neal, who builds the brackets, ToiletDuck?

 

[ToiletDuck]

what's that supposed to mean?

 

[FN FAL]

Fly jumpers in 182's, that's how I got my start. It's a lot of take offs, landings and pattern work.

 

[Flechas]

Never mind, just saw that post...

 

[BluDevAv8r]

As you said paying the bills or not paying the bills.... In long term which earns you a seat faster? Multi or single time? Which investment of time will payoff more? I'm not standing up for the schools but I understand why they exist and how they can be beneficail. Mommy and Daddy don't pay any bills but they do pay for training. And if a school like that is my only other way then I'll take out a loan and go there. I do consider myself fortunate to be able to go should I need to. And like everyone else when a good opportunity shows itself it would be foolish not to take advantage of it.

I didn't go to Baylor nor did I go to Gulfstream but since I added some thread drift above, I will add my 2 cents on this subject as well, which is more or less worthless anyways. Gulfstream is the only airline in the world that has 20 paying passengers on its 1900's. If you want to fly a 1900 so badly, get 600 hours total time and Colgan or Great Lakes will hire you no problem.

But to get those extra 350 hours, do it in an honorable way...by flight instructing, banner tow, traffic watch, etc. I vote for instructing. It is a great way to build CRM skills as well as confidence. Don't forget that while you earn that $10 per hour (and your buddies are instructing making $15-45 per hour), you (or someone that loves you) forked over a further $30,000 for that right seat time, so you are behind financially from the get go....so comparing the $10 per hour to the $14 per hour isn't really apples to apples.

Plus...you'll feel better about yourself in the end. If it makes you feel any better, there are tons of 22 year old new hires flying regional jets who didn't have to go to Gulfstream first.

-Neal

 

[Gulfstream 200]

As you said paying the bills or not paying the bills.... In long term which earns you a seat faster? Multi or single time? Which investment of time will payoff more? I'm not standing up for the schools but I understand why they exist and how they can be beneficail. Mommy and Daddy don't pay any bills but they do pay for training. And if a school like that is my only other way then I'll take out a loan and go there. I do consider myself fortunate to be able to go should I need to. And like everyone else when a good opportunity shows itself it would be foolish not to take advantage of it.

wrong thread sorry

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Same here, although I don't get to fly those very often.
By the way Neal, who builds the brackets, ToiletDuck?

No, Christian makes them. I love mine. I know there is one other guy who makes one also, but his isn't coated in rubber, which I like about Christian's. Plus, he was in my new hire class back in 2000 so I wanted to throw him some love. Of course, he was one of the senior old farts in the class and I was the junior beeotch.

-Neal

 

[Flechas]

I bought his too, like it a lot, and I think it's wider than the other.
I flew with Olav this month, he was in your class too.

 

[BluDevAv8r]

I bought his too, like it a lot, and I think it's wider than the other.
I flew with Olav this month, he was in your class too.

Yep...Olav is a great guy. He was one of the first low time hires since he came from the internal ranks...with something like 600 hours. He did great in training and I always love chatting with him.

-Neal

 

[Flechas]

Yep...Olav is a great guy. He was one of the first low time hires since he came from the internal ranks...with something like 600 hours. He did great in training and I always love chatting with him.

-Neal

Agree, he's a great guy and an exelent captain.

 

[ToiletDuck]

You made one bad choice, you can still fix it - dont throw it ALL away.

So far the only choices I've made was A)Going to Baylor University and majoring in Aviation Sciences and B)Posting here to find out what everyone else has done and find the opinions on options out there. Dont' get mad because I mentioned the schools name. I did so to hear about them and that's exactly what I'm doing. My mind isn't made up in the least yet.

 

[BluDevAv8r]

So far the only choices I've made was A)Going to Baylor University and majoring in Aviation Sciences and B)Posting here to find out what everyone else has done and find the opinions on options out there. Dont' get mad because I mentioned the schools name. I did so to hear about them and that's exactly what I'm doing. My mind isn't made up in the least yet.

Baylor was a great choice. We used to lay over at ACT and I enjoyed Crickets quite a bit. Majoring in aviation science is great...but I would have added a second BA in economics, history, finance, basketweaving, etc. Your next step should be to get an MEI if you don't already have it and go find a good flight school to build time at...preferably in a warm weather area where you will fly more.

-Neal

 

[ToiletDuck]

Yes the way things are looking I might try around the houston area. I grew up in a small town not far from there called El Campo where my father farms. Be nice to go work on the ranch when I'm not flying. I don't care for Waco too much. i was wanting to get a BA in something else however all of my calculus classes and such won't transfer and I'd be required to take all those classes over. Our dept won't let anything substitude. I'm already required to do 150hrs as is.