I can't understand the low pay

[EMB145XR]

Thomas Petzinger. Excellent read for anybody who is even thinking about entering this crazy line of work.

Anybody thinking of becoming an airline pilot right now ought to enroll in medical school instead. The pay and job security are far, far better. Plus, you get a great deal more respect. Once you get your medical degree and land a job, you can buy your own Bonanza and have more fun anyway. Flying a jet straight and level gets really old, really fast. Putting up with the seemingly daily increases in security is even more BS doctors don't deal with. My shoes ought to be glowing due to the number of times they've been x-rayed.

The crew meals (I mean peanuts and pretzels) are free though!

Is the burnout/frustration evident enough from the above paragraph?

 

[Brett Hull]

I get tired of hearing you guys try to rationalize these measly salaries. There were people in line to fly broken airplanes when management was firing pilots for declining to fly them back in the day, but they took a stand and got that changed. It's about time you boys stood up and did the same thing. Enough with the "I had to do it so you'll be fine" mentality.

Here's a suggestion to start with: Any new hires get put on a "freedom-ish/SCAB" no-jumpseat list. You either live poor in your domicile, or you don't get to work - even on your own line.

You don't have a problem blacklisting some pilots, so adding some more on to the list shouldn't be a problem, right?

 

[slickmagneto]

BOTTOM LINE

Pilots are either WHORES or JOHNS.

They will give their services away or will pay someone to us it.

That is all there is to it.

 

[avbug]

Perhaps. Or perhaps some of us have just sacrified a lot to make it in a tough, unstable industry.

Then again, it's easier to toss blame and kick someone in the teeth, isn't it?

 

[metrodriver]

pilotwife, you hit the nail right on the head. And I wish I had an answer to your million dollar questions.
Three do I have. 1. Is already answered above, a lot of people available for a few jobs.
2. You're entire career up to and including first year at a major was considered 'paying your dues'. Now that regionals are becoming a career it is more than time this is going to change. Actually, I really don't understand why someone has 'to pay dues' after completing the commercial checkride, after spending a lot of money already. I guess if you're smart and lucky you go fly for uncle sam a few years and let the taxpayer pick up the tab.
3.If a pilot group decides to do something, management will invent certain ways to avoid any (financial) problems. We have seen this recently at Mesa, where Freedom air was being created to take over mesa flying if the pilots would try to get more money.
Also at Delta we've seen this. Traditionally ASA had ATL and DFW, Comair was in CVG and Skywest did the west. After the comair strike 2 years back Delta has started to dilute the dominance of its carriers in their bases. Suddenly there is a comair and skywest base at DFW, skywest is going to Houston, asa and comair (and maybe even skywest) are in ATL. This way if there is a future strike only a small part of the system will be affected, effectively rendering a strike useless. I don't know about the USAir feeders, but I believe they have the largest number of independent regionals flying for them, it wouldn't surprise me if this is also intentional.

It took me almost 10 years to find the first job that paid more than 20.000 (actually I was on schedule to more than double that in the first year flying the big stuff), but it lasted only a few month till the furloughs hit, courtesy of Fedex/usps. I'm still stuck with a flight training loan that exceeds the 100 grand and the bank bursting through the door, and right now don't even have the income to support a girlfriend. I hope to find a flying job sometime soon that will afford me to pay of the loan, work on a retirement fund and find a girlfriend (I don't know in which sequence though)
So I agree, the low wages are a crying shame

 

[Gulfstream 200]

"$19,000 a year is completly unacceptable" -- huh?

I guess your husband doesn't think so.


Once guys STOP working for that wage, employers will quit paying that wage.

In other words, aint never gonna happen in aviation.

 

[Bluto]

I find it supremely ironic that you come to this board pointing a finger at the pilots here for being responsible for low pay. Your husband, a former major airline pilot, just accepted the pathetic pay himself! Why not ask him why people agree to work for these ridiculous wages?! If you are so livid about this, I suggest you have him go into work tomorrow and tell them his pay is unacceptable. Let us know how well that works.

 

[rice]

G200

You hit the proverbial nail right on the head!!!!
Problem is, the young'uns coming into the field are gonna say "you did it, so why can't I"? The newbies will forever believe that there is a brass ring to be had and that "its only a matter of time".

 

[silent j]

Wife of pilot back here,
I absolutely support my husband's decision to fly the regional jet but my heart aches when he puts on that uniform and heads to the airport for such crummy pay and schedule. He is 33 years old and has an entire career ahead of him. He was furloughed shortly after 911. He tried and tried to get a flying gig even part time and nothing. He decided to stay home for 1 1/2 years with our new baby while I worked. Unfortunatley he has been flying since he was 17 and has no other experience nor is interested in much more.

Don't get me wrong, the decision to leave watching our first baby for 19K was not an easy one. But with the opportunity of not resigning seniority and the fact that regionals may be the future he thought it wise to take it, put in the time and hopefully upgrade to a liveable wage.

My next point. TIMES HAVE CHANGED! When pilots agreed to those low wages, many knew that they wouldn't have to put in too much time to upgrade. Majors were hiring like crazy and many were probably willing to accept it short term. That's my point. TIMES HAVE CHANGED AND NOW attrition is low, Few majors are hiring. ISN'T IT TIME TO CHANGE FO PAY NOW THAT YOU'RE GOING TO BE AN FO FOR A LONG TIME?

Times change and so do contracts.

To those who say the wages are low because there are people willing to work for that. I say THE PILOTS ON THE JOB ARE THE ONES NEGOTIATING THE CONTRACT... NOT THE ONES THAT ARE WAITING IN LINE FOR IT! YOU HAVE THE POWER! YOU ALWAYS HAVE! USE IT!

 

[wifeofpilot]

Wife of pilot back here,
I absolutely support my husband's decision to fly the regional jet but my heart aches when he puts on that uniform and heads to the airport for such crummy pay and schedule. He is 33 years old and has an entire career ahead of him. He was furloughed shortly after 911. He tried and tried to get a flying gig even part time and nothing. He decided to stay home for 1 1/2 years with our new baby while I worked. Unfortunatley he has been flying since he was 17 and has no other experience nor is interested in much more.

Don't get me wrong, the decision to leave watching our first baby for 19K was not an easy one. But with the opportunity of not resigning seniority and the fact that regionals may be the future he thought it wise to take it, put in the time and hopefully upgrade to a liveable wage.

My next point. TIMES HAVE CHANGED! When pilots agreed to those low wages, many knew that they wouldn't have to put in too much time to upgrade. Majors were hiring like crazy and many were probably willing to accept it short term. That's my point. TIMES HAVE CHANGED AND NOW attrition is low, Few majors are hiring. ISN'T IT TIME TO CHANGE FO PAY NOW THAT YOU'RE GOING TO BE AN FO FOR A LONG TIME?

Times change and so do contracts.

To those who say the wages are low because there are people willing to work for that. I say THE PILOTS ON THE JOB ARE THE ONES NEGOTIATING THE CONTRACT... NOT THE ONES THAT ARE WAITING IN LINE FOR IT! YOU HAVE THE POWER! YOU ALWAYS HAVE! USE IT!

 

[TEXAN AVIATOR]

Christ lady, how many usernames do you have?

 

[trainerjet]

I say THE PILOTS ON THE JOB ARE THE ONES NEGOTIATING THE CONTRACT... NOT THE ONES THAT ARE WAITING IN LINE FOR IT! YOU HAVE THE POWER! YOU ALWAYS HAVE! USE IT!

Is he willing to walk if and when it comes to that? As it likely will take such drastic action to effect drastic change. That is assuming there's no alter-ego or contractor willing and able to take up the slack. And if he is willing to walk, are you willing to support him during the difficult time that would ensue, with no guarantee that the action would be successful? And if it is successful, would he believe that his actions were worth it considering, in all likelihood, that they were walking more for the future pilots than the present?

 

[Publishers]

Real Problem

This is and will continue to be a problem in our industry.

Nevertheless, one thing being lost in this situation is that the individual in this case is well over qualified for the position that they find themselves in. There are many others including myself that find that to be the case this year.

He is qualified but in what for all intent and purpose is an entry level position in regional airlines. It does not pay much but gives you the opportinity to build experience and move up.

This persons position is reflective of the fact that there are not the number of positions available for the people qualified.

 

[ksu_aviator]

I was furloughed from a regional and turned down two recalls to stay at a better paying 135 gig. I've been yelled at by at least one person for doing so. "You can't turn down 121 time" was his argument. Oh yes I can. I could care less if I fly 135 or 121. But others think that 121 is the only way to go. Not true. Get a 135 job or a corporate job and you'll make more money early in your career and you can still move up the majors if you want to. BTW, tell your husband there are many very good paying corporate jobs out there, you just have to be agressive to get them.

 

[wifeofpilot]

WRONG AIRLINE!!! IFLYFORFOOD... GUESS AGAIN!

AND I am on my own log in.

I just happen to be logged onto our home computer at the time
and it defaulted to his log in. You are very bitter. You obviously
didn't get the fact that I support you pilots and have a lot of
sympathy for your cause. And you didn't get the point I made that times have changed since 911, so it's time for contracts to change.


My husband is too busy commuting to even read this message
board!

 

[pilotyip]

4 yr degree

see that is why a 4 yr degree is so improtant in a pilot's career.
Why without a 4 yr degree he might not have gotten the job.

 

[wifeofpilot]

HUH?

 

[SDdriver]

Pilotyip,

Look I do not want to bring about a long discussion here, but what in the world are you talking about a 4yr degree for?? I never heard that subject come into this thread... Also, I have friends out there with 2 and 3 degrees and they can't find work. These days a degree is not as important as it use to be, now please everyone, I AM NOT SAYING IT IS NOT IMPORTANT, IT IS, so don't flame the hell out of me, but before I got mine, I NEVER had a problem getting a job and it NEVER came up in an interview.

I believe that the times we live in now require more technical types of training than a run of the mill degree. I have numerous friends that don't have degrees and have excelled in their fields because they were trained specifically for that field and they are very technically proficient. One problem with that is, that is all you are trained for and you don’t become a, “well rounded person”, as everyone has always said getting a degree makes you. Like it really makes a difference to your well roundedness. To be absolutely honest, my 4 yr degree has not helped me in an obvious way since I obtained it. What I mean by that is, no employer has ever said, if you wouldn’t have had that degree we wouldn’t have hired you, or we were looking at someone without a degree and you with the degree and we chose you because you had the degree, that has never happened and I have always become pretty close with all of the personnel people that have hired me and they said that the degree was never really a factor, it was more my skill and the way I spoke and presented myself that made the difference. Now I know someone is going to make the argument that the degree helped me to be like that, maybe or maybe not, but I can say this, basically all my degree has done for me in an obvious sense is put me about $45,000 in debt for a very long time. I have mixed feeling about having it, but I guess I am glad I did. Hey just my PERSONAL opinion of my PERSONAL situation, I am not trying to convince anyone to my beliefs, so don’t flame me to bad ok. Sorry I got long winded, I just had to write that student loan check about a day ago and the degree thing kind of got to me, I would have rather been spending that money on my son, not a loan. Take care guys..


SD

 

[DarnNearaJet]

Two words: Kit Darby

 

[trainerjet]

Two words: Kit Darby

Three words: GET OVER IT!!