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How will Pilot shops survive the purposed FAA mandate of 1500/ATP

PA44Jockey

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Just curious to hear about how the schools such as Pheonix East, DCA, Pan Am, Sierra etc will survive with this. We already have too many pilots for the current demand in flying. Things will probably only even out when Age 65 hits. Yes there will be a demand then, but there are thousands of qualified pilots on the street right now.

When the economy was good and the flight schools such as Delta Connection Academy had students, as soon as I hit 800 hours of dual given instruction, I was forced to quit to make room for another CFI.

Now there are hardly any students willing to pay $100,000.00 for flight training. The only thing luring them in is the job prospect at 300 hours right now. What is going to happen when they have to build another 1200 hours to get hired somewhere. Maybe a few hours will be taken up while they obtain their ATP, but you get were I am going?

I know the mins use to be around 1500 hours about 10 years ago to get hired somewhere, but before Sept. 11 there were a ton of people that wanted to learn to fly in the ballpark of 32,000.00 for training. Flight schools are going to have to come back down to reality with cost or I think many will fold.
 

CitationLover

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Good riddance.
 

Amish RakeFight

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Bridge programs will collapse with a 1500 hr requirement. This is ALLATPS (as well as some others) biggest selling point. A severe drop in enrollment is inevitable. Most will NOT want to pay the money only to CFI for ~1-2 years. No prestige and low pay will seal the deal for many, like the Commutair doofus in the news.
 
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mocaman

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There will be much more masterbating going on, This is very good news for fruit of the loom....1500 hours is going to take FOREVER to get.
 

xjcaptain

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Um.....same way they did it for DECADES.....Higher time instructors, more experienced instructors, better trained pilots. Nobody guaranteed any high school kid a seat in an airliner with an experience level that wouldn't qualify them to rent a complex single solo. Like many others, I CFI'd for 3 years, did 135 and then got on at a regional with about 3000ttl and 500ME. Was it always fun....no. Did I learn a lot doing it...absolutly. I feel sorry for any passengers in the back of an airliner with a 300 hour wonder in the right seat, and a 1501 hr "captain" in the right.
 

N1VIBS

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any requirements for a certain type of flying? I mean, come on, 1500 hours going around the pattern as a CFI in a Cessna 152 is fairly worthless IMO. On the other hand, some kid whos been flying night freight for 5 or 600 hours in some beat up old Baron or Cessna 310 in all types of weather would be a heck of a lot better than the 1500 hour traffic pattern CFI. (IMO)
 

Amish RakeFight

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any requirements for a certain type of flying? I mean, come on, 1500 hours going around the pattern as a CFI in a Cessna 152 is fairly worthless IMO. On the other hand, some kid whos been flying night freight for 5 or 600 hours in some beat up old Baron or Cessna 310 in all types of weather would be a heck of a lot better than the 1500 hour traffic pattern CFI. (IMO)


Joe CFI can fly freight at 1200 hrs. (w/decent pay) then decide whether he wants the airline life at 1500+.
 

Salukipilot4590

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Joe CFI can fly freight at 1200 hrs. (w/decent pay) then decide whether he wants the airline life at 1500+.

That's IF the 135 is hiring...right now he's lucky to be a CFI.
 

Draginass

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If there's a lot less pilot starts, then all the better. We don't need another round of 200 hour kids willing to work for nothing. Maybe having to actually have some flying experience will dampen out that shiny jet syndrome and inject some realism, skill, and judgment into the equation.
 

Salukipilot4590

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Maybe having to actually have some flying experience will dampen out that shiny jet syndrome and inject some realism, skill, and judgment into the equation.

Agreed...

Having been furloughed and sent back to the street I now have a completely objective view of the industry and thankfully (Luckily) a lot more pilot experience (CFI-ing foreign students and tons of long dual X-C flights).

Honestly it's like I'm a totallty different person 500 hours after furlough...and I'm still not to 1500 yet!
 

PA44Jockey

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Um.....same way they did it for DECADES.....Higher time instructors, more experienced instructors, better trained pilots. Nobody guaranteed any high school kid a seat in an airliner with an experience level that wouldn't qualify them to rent a complex single solo. Like many others, I CFI'd for 3 years, did 135 and then got on at a regional with about 3000ttl and 500ME. Was it always fun....no. Did I learn a lot doing it...absolutly. I feel sorry for any passengers in the back of an airliner with a 300 hour wonder in the right seat, and a 1501 hr "captain" in the right.

Yeah, the same way, I get that. Who are they going to instruct though. Before it didn't cost a ton of money to obtain your ratings. Now it cost a fortune and there is no job prospect on the other end.

I was impressed though that they brought up pilot student loans. A bank should never lend someone 100K to make 16K a year.
 

flyslow24

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What's worse spending 2000 hours to make 16,000 a year or spending 300?

Oh yeah the safety thing...


Or do you actually think they pay will go up?! If you do you are nuts. They will strengthen the regs but it won't curtail poor pay.

I agree people should have more hours, blah, blah, blah. I had a 1500+ before being hired by a regional. But do not confuse strict regs with pay.
 

aviatrix

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I guess it'll have to be like it used to be. Instruct, go fly some middle-of-the-night freight. Get some experience. It builds character!
 

avbug

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What is going to happen when they have to build another 1200 hours to get hired somewhere.

Apparently they'll have to do it the old fashioned way like many of us did. Putting 300 hour wonders in the right seat was a bad idea, anyway.

For many years, one couldn't be competitive for the right seat of a regional without 2,500 hours or so, let alone tipping the scales at barely qualified for the ATP.

Raising the bar a little isn't going to hurt anything that doesn't need hurting, and it's certainly not going to compromise or damage the industry.
 

spitfire1500

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Exactly. Most part 135 places aren't hiring at 1200 hours right now, and CFI's flooding their desks with resumes isn't going to bring down competitive hiring times either.

Don't worry that will change in a few years. The new requirement of an ATP is going to cut some of the crap out of the profession. The 250 hour bridge program pilot kills wages!! This is why med schools are so picky about who they accept and limit enrollment...to protect the standards and $ made in the profession.
 
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