How & When Will The Other Fractionals Respond to NJA TA?

[jtf]

NJA can't possibly hire away enough of the competition to really cause much harm unless they chose one competitor and hired away only from that same company all year. NJA is growing, but 350 to 450 slots a year isn't going to do the others in. NJA hires from all over the board so it isn't going to crush the competition that way. IBB will improve the retention rate at NJA and make it harder for the others to hire the best applicants, but there will always be enough pilots willing to go to work at the others for whatever they pay.

In my opinion the management at the other's don't have much incentive to raise the pay until their own pilot groups force the action either by enough walking away (which would have to be mostly to the majors and LCCs) or by unionizing and then taking the hard stance. The current political climate makes it almost impossible to strike, but a unified pilot group can definitely put the hurt on enough to force improvements as 1108 proved in 2005. Not all companies are in the same financial position as NJA was in regards to really being able to pay what they are so the hard line may kill a weaker company if they demand what they deserve (we all deserve better than we are getting and the current IBB still doesn't come close to the kind of money I was expecting as a pilot back when I got into this profession). But I also believe almost every company out there can afford to bump it up a bit.

 

[Greaseman]

Flops Management Is Out To Lunch

They have been for a long time. Gunga Den and Punjab have been working at running Flops into the ground for years. First they worked overtime to piss off the pilots to the point that we had to seek help from a union. During this same time they have worked overtime to run off as many of our fractional owners as possible. Now they are trying to reinvent themselves in an attempt to find another segment of aviation to be a failure in.

Flops management enjoys their view of the world from underneath the sand. It allows them to conveniently ignore and deny what the rest of the world can plainly see. Management has been telling their employees for some time now that NJ is not growing, not making money, not selling new fractional shares, not hiring new pilots, not adding new jets, not being the success they have obviously
become with the help of a highly focused pilot group. It seems that the only group that does not fall for this babble is the pilots.

Flops management will take no action relative to the new NJ IBB agreement. They will continue to do what they do best turn Flops into the Masa of the fractional/charter business. After all Masa is their mentality what else should we expect.

It's only natural that FLOP's would become the Mesa of fractional operations. The illustrious CEO of MESA is an owner at FLOP's, probably acts as a "special advisor" to freakin' Scheeringa. The damn place still disgusts me (the management) and I've been gone for a while. You guys bust your AZZ's and deserve the best and these clowns just drag their feet and pretend that their isn't a union. It still pisses me off.

 

[bailout]

NJA can't possibly hire away enough of the competition to really cause much harm unless they chose one competitor and hired away only from that same company all year. NJA is growing, but 350 to 450 slots a year isn't going to do the others in.

Sure they can. Keep in mind that most folks who would leave CS, Flex, Flops, etc would be the 1-3 year F/Os. You're only talking about @200-300 +/- guys. That would kill those places, especially in the short term.

 

[johnsonrod]

You can bet that all of the junior pilots at CS, Flex, FLOPS and Avantair will be listening very closely for responses over the next few days... Silence will not be appreciated.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

way to go!

 

[Dilligaff]

Most of the pilots that I fly with at Avantair have thier apps in at NJA and I'm hearing the same thing from a lot of other Captains as well. We're going to lose a lot of pilots whether they give us a raise or not. There are too many QOL issues besides pay that are going unresolved. I'm content with staying here for a lot of reasons, but I can't blame the ones who are going to leave.

 

[guido411]

It's only natural that FLOP's would become the Mesa of fractional operations. The illustrious CEO of MESA is an owner at FLOP's, probably acts as a "special advisor" to freakin' Scheeringa.

And that guy is a dou(he bag too. What's that saying about "birds of a feather. . ."?

 

[On Your Six]

Most of the pilots that I fly with at Avantair have thier apps in at NJA and I'm hearing the same thing from a lot of other Captains as well. We're going to lose a lot of pilots whether they give us a raise or not. There are too many QOL issues besides pay that are going unresolved. I'm content with staying here for a lot of reasons, but I can't blame the ones who are going to leave.

After the Netjets TA, what is the difference now between starting pay at Avantair and starting pay at Netjets (minimums)?

The domicile issue has gone away under the new TA too. If I were Avantair management, I would be worried about my ability to attract the "best" candidates going forward. You don't only want to hire Netjets rejects... I am sure all of the other fractionals will be thinking the same thing (with the exception of FLOPS) as they try to cover attrition (to Netjets) and growth positions.

 

[Frac Cap]

I guess I may be a glutton for punishment, but I'm trying to figure out how much specifically we are under paid at Flops. The best I can figure out is that NJ works about 183 days a year on the 7&7 schedule. Flops works about 198 if I'm correct(I always thought it was less). So that means Flops works 15 days more a year, (I thought it was about 8 days). If I was to take the 10 year pay at NJ and then add the extra 15 days that they would get as overtime to match the days we are gone out of the year. I come up with about 133K a year. Compare that with the average 10 year captain pay of about 75K at Flops, and that puts us 58K underpaid not including the NJ superior perks and benefits that would bring the disparity much higher.

Does anyone know if these numbers are accurate.

 

[Frac Cap]

Oops, hit the button twice.