How & When Will The Other Fractionals Respond to NJA TA?

[Dilligaff]

Most of the pilots that I fly with at Avantair have thier apps in at NJA and I'm hearing the same thing from a lot of other Captains as well. We're going to lose a lot of pilots whether they give us a raise or not. There are too many QOL issues besides pay that are going unresolved. I'm content with staying here for a lot of reasons, but I can't blame the ones who are going to leave.

 

[guido411]

It's only natural that FLOP's would become the Mesa of fractional operations. The illustrious CEO of MESA is an owner at FLOP's, probably acts as a "special advisor" to freakin' Scheeringa.

And that guy is a dou(he bag too. What's that saying about "birds of a feather. . ."?

 

[On Your Six]

Most of the pilots that I fly with at Avantair have thier apps in at NJA and I'm hearing the same thing from a lot of other Captains as well. We're going to lose a lot of pilots whether they give us a raise or not. There are too many QOL issues besides pay that are going unresolved. I'm content with staying here for a lot of reasons, but I can't blame the ones who are going to leave.

After the Netjets TA, what is the difference now between starting pay at Avantair and starting pay at Netjets (minimums)?

The domicile issue has gone away under the new TA too. If I were Avantair management, I would be worried about my ability to attract the "best" candidates going forward. You don't only want to hire Netjets rejects... I am sure all of the other fractionals will be thinking the same thing (with the exception of FLOPS) as they try to cover attrition (to Netjets) and growth positions.

 

[Frac Cap]

I guess I may be a glutton for punishment, but I'm trying to figure out how much specifically we are under paid at Flops. The best I can figure out is that NJ works about 183 days a year on the 7&7 schedule. Flops works about 198 if I'm correct(I always thought it was less). So that means Flops works 15 days more a year, (I thought it was about 8 days). If I was to take the 10 year pay at NJ and then add the extra 15 days that they would get as overtime to match the days we are gone out of the year. I come up with about 133K a year. Compare that with the average 10 year captain pay of about 75K at Flops, and that puts us 58K underpaid not including the NJ superior perks and benefits that would bring the disparity much higher.

Does anyone know if these numbers are accurate.

 

[Frac Cap]

Oops, hit the button twice.

 

[Hobbes]

Pretty much on target. Remember that most 8-10 yr captains at Flops are on about 3-4 yr captain pay on their jacked scale...and 3-4 yr captain pay on their scale is equivalent to starting SIC pay at NJs. Let me emphasive that in an equation:

9 yr Flops Captian = STARTING @#$#@ SIC NJA

Um....anyone have any questions why the Flops guys could give two Sh!ts if their company goes under?

By the way, the equivalency in pay is BEFORE you factor in less days worked by the NJA guy, full benefits paid for, Holiday pay, overtime situations, and any grievances....

 

[jonjuan]

Pretty much on target. Remember that most 8-10 yr captains at Flops are on about 3-4 yr captain pay on their jacked scale...and 3-4 yr captain pay on their scale is equivalent to starting SIC pay at NJs. Let me emphasive that in an equation:

9 yr Flops Captian = STARTING @#$#@ SIC NJA

Um....anyone have any questions why the Flops guys could give two Sh!ts if their company goes under?

By the way, the equivalency in pay is BEFORE you factor in less days worked by the NJA guy, full benefits paid for, Holiday pay, overtime situations, and any grievances....

Why not compare UPS pay to NJA pay? You would think the "New England Patriots" of the fractional industry could at least match that of the a cargo hauler. Isn't 2nd year UPS F/O pay $120k a year? Now there's a contract!

 

[hammer2]

Why not compare UPS pay to NJA pay? You would think the "New England Patriots" of the fractional industry could at least match that of the a cargo hauler. Isn't 2nd year UPS F/O pay $120k a year? Now there's a contract!

Sorry guys, he has a good point.

 

[imacdog]

Sorry guys, he has a good point.

To look beyond just pay, there are many quality of life benefits our contract has over UPS and other companies. Pay isn't always everything.

 

[Frac Cap]

Rome wasn't built in a day. But it's a good start.

 

[jonjuan]

To look beyond just pay, there are many quality of life benefits our contract has over UPS and other companies.

Is it the 7 days away from your wife or the 12 says off a month? Maybe it's the lack of a pension or defined contribution plan. At least you can get a new contract in a couple of years.

 

[btodd77]

Hey Jonjuan,
Ask Delta, UsAir and United guys what a pension has done for them. As far as I'm concerned give me the money now and let me screw it up. I'll take what we have any day of the week at NJA. Remember rome wasn't built in a day, but once it's built it has stood.

 

[imacdog]

Well there are certainly positives and negatives at every job, though in my opinion the positives far outweigh the negatives at NetJets. Then again JJ, wherever you work is probably perfect in every regard. Maybe I can work for your company some day. Cheers!

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

2nd Year Pay at UPS is about $99K.

I did not apply (yet) at UPS because of the commuting issues and high crashpad costs in ANC. If NJA turns me down, then I'll apply at UPS.

If I was single, or my CEO was up for it, I would've applied at UPS and moved to ANC if I was hired.

cliff
YIP

 

[Usual Suspect]

Why not compare UPS pay to NJA pay? You would think the "New England Patriots" of the fractional industry could at least match that of the a cargo hauler. Isn't 2nd year UPS F/O pay $120k a year? Now there's a contract!

Maybe because we're comparing companies within the same segment of aviation? Reread the title to this thread. It's that whole apples to apples thing...