How & When Will The Other Fractionals Respond to NJA TA?

[johnsonrod]

Serious questions. I am not looking for flip responses.

What are the expected responses from CS, Flex, FLOPS and Avantair? Clearly they will have to do something or risk an exodus of junior pilots... CS responded almost immediately to the last NJA TA with raises for the pilot group.

How soon do you expect any responses? Silence would be an implicit NO.

 

[doylehargraves]

Response from Flexjet? That's a good one. There won't be one word from management all week, I guarantee it.

They could announce whatever they want today but, we won't see any changes for at least 5 months because Montreal are the "bad cops" that won't let our poor VP make any changes until then.

And, anything we do get will be just like last time, a day late and alot of dollars short. Our VP has made it perfectly clear to us time and again: they are perfectly happy with attrition in the 30% range.

 

[Club ORD FO]

Flexjet has said that they will "remain competitive" and that an announcement will be made "after the holidays," but any changes to compensation would not take effect until may for "budget" reasons. So they are taking their time.

 

[Heavy Set]

If I were a relatively junior pilot at any of the other fractionals I would be firing off a resume/application right now (probably would have done it a few months ago). Why give up an opportunity to work for the industry leader at much better pay? If you are senior it probably won't matter too much.

I'll bet you see some salary increases at CS and Flex. CS has a history of increasing its salary to prevent departures. Avantair probably can't afford too much of an increase and FLOPS will refuse.

 

[Club ORD FO]

the problem with Flex is, pay is just one of many , many, many things that need polishing. Pay isn't even at the top of my list, bases is.

 

[dash_trash]

It's beem over 2 years and FLOPS hasn't responded to NJ previous raise, so I seriously doubt we'll see anything related to this latest TA.

On the bright side ... our CEO believes NJ is shrinking ... and that everything is just fine right now at FLOPS ... I'll have what ever it is he's smoking.

 

[RoughAir]

Forget about Avantair. Its financials will not allow any adjustments. The investors will eventually get nervous and demand changes to turn a profit.

 

[SilverSurfer]

Flops Management Is Out To Lunch

It's beem over 2 years and FLOPS hasn't responded to NJ previous raise, so I seriously doubt we'll see anything related to this latest TA.

On the bright side ... our CEO believes NJ is shrinking ... and that everything is just fine right now at FLOPS ... I'll have what ever it is he's smoking.

Flops Management Is Out To Lunch

They have been for a long time. Gunga Den and Punjab have been working at running Flops into the ground for years. First they worked overtime to piss off the pilots to the point that we had to seek help from a union. During this same time they have worked overtime to run off as many of our fractional owners as possible. Now they are trying to reinvent themselves in an attempt to find another segment of aviation to be a failure in.

Flops management enjoys their view of the world from underneath the sand. It allows them to conveniently ignore and deny what the rest of the world can plainly see. Management has been telling their employees for some time now that NJ is not growing, not making money, not selling new fractional shares, not hiring new pilots, not adding new jets, not being the success they have obviously
become with the help of a highly focused pilot group. It seems that the only group that does not fall for this babble is the pilots.

Flops management will take no action relative to the new NJ IBB agreement. They will continue to do what they do best turn Flops into the Masa of the fractional/charter business. After all Masa is their mentality what else should we expect.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Unless something is happening at your company, NOTHING is happening at your company. You only have so many years. If your management team doesn't value your experience... find one that does.

Life (and aviation careers) are FAR too short.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Flops Management Is Out To Lunch

No doubt. I heard that we have something like 80% of the FLOPS pilots resumes on file over here. What a golden opportunity to take a look at each and every one of them. Who's gonna fly those planes? :nuts:

You made your bed Scheringa... again.

 

[jtf]

NJA can't possibly hire away enough of the competition to really cause much harm unless they chose one competitor and hired away only from that same company all year. NJA is growing, but 350 to 450 slots a year isn't going to do the others in. NJA hires from all over the board so it isn't going to crush the competition that way. IBB will improve the retention rate at NJA and make it harder for the others to hire the best applicants, but there will always be enough pilots willing to go to work at the others for whatever they pay.

In my opinion the management at the other's don't have much incentive to raise the pay until their own pilot groups force the action either by enough walking away (which would have to be mostly to the majors and LCCs) or by unionizing and then taking the hard stance. The current political climate makes it almost impossible to strike, but a unified pilot group can definitely put the hurt on enough to force improvements as 1108 proved in 2005. Not all companies are in the same financial position as NJA was in regards to really being able to pay what they are so the hard line may kill a weaker company if they demand what they deserve (we all deserve better than we are getting and the current IBB still doesn't come close to the kind of money I was expecting as a pilot back when I got into this profession). But I also believe almost every company out there can afford to bump it up a bit.

 

[Greaseman]

Flops Management Is Out To Lunch

They have been for a long time. Gunga Den and Punjab have been working at running Flops into the ground for years. First they worked overtime to piss off the pilots to the point that we had to seek help from a union. During this same time they have worked overtime to run off as many of our fractional owners as possible. Now they are trying to reinvent themselves in an attempt to find another segment of aviation to be a failure in.

Flops management enjoys their view of the world from underneath the sand. It allows them to conveniently ignore and deny what the rest of the world can plainly see. Management has been telling their employees for some time now that NJ is not growing, not making money, not selling new fractional shares, not hiring new pilots, not adding new jets, not being the success they have obviously
become with the help of a highly focused pilot group. It seems that the only group that does not fall for this babble is the pilots.

Flops management will take no action relative to the new NJ IBB agreement. They will continue to do what they do best turn Flops into the Masa of the fractional/charter business. After all Masa is their mentality what else should we expect.

It's only natural that FLOP's would become the Mesa of fractional operations. The illustrious CEO of MESA is an owner at FLOP's, probably acts as a "special advisor" to freakin' Scheeringa. The damn place still disgusts me (the management) and I've been gone for a while. You guys bust your AZZ's and deserve the best and these clowns just drag their feet and pretend that their isn't a union. It still pisses me off.

 

[bailout]

NJA can't possibly hire away enough of the competition to really cause much harm unless they chose one competitor and hired away only from that same company all year. NJA is growing, but 350 to 450 slots a year isn't going to do the others in.

Sure they can. Keep in mind that most folks who would leave CS, Flex, Flops, etc would be the 1-3 year F/Os. You're only talking about @200-300 +/- guys. That would kill those places, especially in the short term.

 

[johnsonrod]

You can bet that all of the junior pilots at CS, Flex, FLOPS and Avantair will be listening very closely for responses over the next few days... Silence will not be appreciated.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

way to go!