How to get hired

[vclean]

We could take it one step further. Get your private at 16, drop out of high school and fly, fly, fly. By the time you are 22, you should have 5,000 hrs or more. Never mind about high school, you'll have time to get your GED after you lose your medical.

 

[350DRIVER]

Knowing someone gets you an interview.

I cannot recall the large number of guys that have approached me in the past pretending to be a "good friend" to attempt to obtain a LOR from me, etc, etc. If you have not flown with that particular person then you may be putting your own reputation on the line, be wise. With age comes wisdom, how true in this industry. It is great to lend a helping hand but proceed with caution. I shy away from most all requests unless I have personally flown with that person on multiple occasions and can attest to their flying abilities and skills.


I think Yip is DO or something along those lines and has quite a bit of pull at US so be careful if you may end up interviewing there at some point down the line. I think he was simply making a point and offering some information that may be beneficial to quite a few who frequent this board, nothing more and nothing less. If anything he did a few a favor by posting this thread.


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[typhoonpilot]

What Yips says makes some sense, but I offer an alternative. Do the five year college plan with an early emphasis on getting all ratings through CFI in the first two years and then instruct/fly charter for the last three years of school. By the time you graduate at age 22/23 you will have 2000 hours and an ATP and be able to get on with a regional ( provided they are hiring ).

If you go to the right Uni then it is pretty easy to schedule classes on two or three days of the week and then flight instruct the remaining four or five. Alternatively just take classes in the morning or evening while flight instructing the remainder of the day. If you attend a schoold with an Aero program then it is real easy to find students.

Of course this plan requires someone to know what they want to do in life by the age of 16.


Typhoonpilot

 

[mooser]

I'm Bored!!!

 

[Magneto]

Here's my problem. I would love to have my degree not only to have it help me in my career if so required but also to be an example to my kids. Sure would suck to have your kids tell you they don't want to go to college because Dad didn't and he's successful.

Maybe I'm just being hard headed but I've spent so much freakin' money on flying that I really don't have the desire to go deeper in debt just to get the thing. I shun debt now like the plague.

 

[bobbysamd]

Alternative to the alternative

What Yips says makes some sense, but I offer an alternative. Do the five year college plan with an early emphasis on getting all ratings through CFI in the first two years and then instruct/fly charter for the last three years of school.

For that matter, why not try to finish college in three years or less? It can be done by going to summer school.

Young people in high school could go to summer school and plan to graduate in January instead of June. They could enter college for the spring semester and just truck on through to graduation, finishing in two-and-a-half years. Yes, it could mean missing the spring prom(s), but it might be worth it to get an early start on college.

This is written in part tongue-in-cheek, but could be workable for some people.

I like vclean's (tongue-in-cheek) comments, above.

 

[enigma]

TJ PIC will get you the job; ........................................................................................................ the other candidate starting flying out of HS, got his first 135 job at age 19, his first jet job at 21, made TJ PIC at 23, he now has 5500TT, 4500MEL, 2500 TJ PIC

Hey Ipsy, If you want to really help beginning pilots, tell them how to get TJ pic at 23. Seriously, do you realize how hard it is for a beginner to get employable flight time? I don't know how you started out, but if you started in the navy, you have no idea about the plight faced by a 19 year old civilian wannabe pilot.

There just aren't that many jobs available to a teenage pilot regardless of his education level. IF the jobs were there, I'd tend to agree, but I just don't see a lot of available jobs for a 19 year old professional pilot.

After thinking about this situation, and having been on both sides of the debate, I think that I will come down on the side of the
attending the four year, on campus school for the youngsters. I did the distance learning thing, and have in the past recommended it to others who were already in the adult world with adult responsibilities (bills). However, in looking at my friends who attended a traditional university, they all got jobs not because of having a degree, but because of the network they built while in college. A good friend has been a professional pilot ever since college. He obtained ever pilot job he ever got with assistance from his college network. Fifteen years ago, I was flying a Lear for a very rich dude, (logging TJ PIC) and my buddy was flying a beat up 19 seater; we thought that I had it made and he was getting that rejected feeling. Soon after, his network was able to pull him into SWA. You know, a student who was a senior/CFI when my friend was a freshman, gave him an inside recommend for the interview, etc. In passing up the traditional on-campus college route, I never developed that network. The moral of the story is: don't get married at 19 , but thats another story. Seriously, don't overlook the importance of the relationships one is able to build by attending a four year college program.

If the pilot is past his early adulthood, and still without a degree, then I'll agree; fly and take the independent study route to a bachelors.

regards,
enigma

 

[bobbysamd]

TJ PIC

Hey Ipsy, If you want to really help beginning pilots, tell them how to get TJ pic at 23.

Really. Or at 37 with some flight time already under one's belt.

 

[350DRIVER]

Hey Ipsy, If you want to really help beginning pilots, tell them how to get TJ pic at 23.

enigma, and age means what? I was accumulating quite a bit of part 135 multi-engine turbine PIC time well before I hit the "23". Age means nothing, you should realize this since you have been in this industry long enough. I have seen many young pilots get hired at numerous part 135 outfits at a relatively lower flight time and most have been successful in moving up the ladder.

do you realize how hard it is for a beginner to get employable flight time? I don't know how you started out, but if you started in the navy, you have no idea about the plight faced by a 19 year old civilian wannabe pilot.

It is no more difficult to do this than most other things in life. If you want something bad enough and you have the right attitude then this is well within a person's reach. If you are waiting for something to be handed to you on a silver platter then you are probably not going to get very far. Yip is the a DO at USA but he has no idea huh? Just when I thought I have read some whacky stuff on this board.

Each person's situation may be unique and different but I surely don't think that Yip is way off base here, not even by a long shot.


Get off the "age" issue, means very little if anything. No one will be given a "free ride" due to age nor do the younger generation of pilots have it any easier than a 40yr old getting hired into the right seat of a regional jet.

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[enigma]

350, Always happy to help someone let off a little steam. Do you feel better now?

Glad that you were sitting left seat in a 135 TJ before 23. I know of a heck of a lot more guys who flew years in the right seat of a 152 before 23, than I know who got to the the left seat of a jet before 23. It's not like we graduate high school and are able to flip a coin for either Jet PIC or college. Virtually every 18 year old can get into college. It is the rare 18 year old that can walk into the left seat of a jet. Your milage may vary.

enigma

 

[350DRIVER]

350, Always happy to help someone let off a little steam. Do you feel better now?

I was merely attempting to make a point that age really is not a factor if the person has a hard work ethic and strong desire to succeed. I agree with you about the college comparison, easier without a doubt but I do not think that what Yip is suggesting is close to being impossible to pull off at all.


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[Typhoon1244]

...age means what?

Quick history lesson: in 1966, Eastern was hiring 19-year-olds with three hundred hours. I think some majors were even doing ad initio training.

How times change...

 

[350DRIVER]

No history lesson needed... I was well aware of what Eastern had done as well what UAL had done back in the day.

Times have changed, never disputed that.

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ps>> put that adorable picture of your son back up, better than that airplane.

 

[pilotyip]

It can be done

I post the stories about 23 old TJ PIC, because I witness it on a regular basis in my end of the business. I then see these non-college grads with TJ PIC go on to jobs, the majors, (when they were hiring) the LLC's and the fractionals. Everyone of those jobs could mean a good career, except the majors with the all the layoff's. Here is how they do it. They get their Comm/Mel/Inst and they go everywhere in the country ADS, TOL, YIP, ELP, and find a 135 operator with jets or Turbo props requiring a SIC, who treats pilots like dirt, you know the $250 wk, no time off, no pre- deim. They show a willingness to work under those conditions until they get thier 1200 hours and 135 IFR PIC requirements and they then start shopping for the next job. Then they move up or stay put and make Captain. We happen to be one of the places they try to come to. Our minimums are 1200TT 750 MEL, and you would then need 3000TT 1500 MEL to bid for DA-20 Captain. They are normally single, alot come from Alaska, the wild west of flying. I guess the thing they have in common is a goal and the motivation to go where the job is, and put up almost anything to get the hours on their resume. It was ask how do these non-college grads get jobs at Spirit, AirTran, Netjets, I am just passing along what I have witnessed. This is not the track for everyone, but it is one that works and a viable option for those so inclinded. Thank you for your time.

 

[bobbysamd]

Age discrimination thread drift

Get off the "age" issue, means very little if anything. No one will be given a "free ride" due to age nor do the younger generation of pilots have it any easier than a 40yr old getting hired into the right seat of a regional jet.

(emphasis added)

My good friend, having been there, I hasten to disagree. That is a topic for other threads. In any event, it's still harder, if not impossible, to compete with younger people with like credentials.

Originally posted by pilotyip
Our minimums are 1200TT 750 MEL, and you would then need 3000TT 1500 MEL to bid for DA-20 Captain.

Look at my quals at the left, Yip. I was single and available (!) when I was current with those quals. I realize I am slightly light on the multi time for DA-20 captain. Would've you interviewed me? Inquiring minds want to know.

I suspect the answer will be "no." I applied for similar jobs years ago with my credentials being close to those times and heard nothing. There was a DC-3 operator in Ypsilanti that hired at somewhat low times. I applied to him with somewhat low times. I placed a followup call, which was returned. I returned that call, left a message, and got no further.

There is much more to it than having hours and determination.

 

[learflyer]

Re: why I posted the thread

[beginning and it is something that can be gotten later.

Gotten? What's that German?

 

[350DRIVER]

bobbysamd,

my friend, I can understand where you are coming from on this issue since you have seen it happen to you but I tend to think that this is not the norm with regards to this issue. I have seen many pilots who were much older be successful in getting to the regional level, MAPD has taken many career changers in the late 30's and 40's and they have placed them in the RJ. Back in 97" Gary Lightfoot** who was in his early 40's at the time, very little flight time, etc, went through the program and he is now the asst. chief pilot at Freedom Airlines. I have seen many others in his exact same position (career changers) do the exact same thing at Mesa and at other regionals. I tend to think that "luck" has some leverage here but surely age shouldn't be a factor to stop someone from pursuing their dream. I would be willing to bet the farm that if you got current again, brushed up in the knowledge areas, etc, that you could be successful in making it to the regional or corporate level. I have not a doubt in my mind on this one. I would absolutely love to pursued and convince you to get back into this industry since you obviously have the love, desire, and drive to succeed, but I realize the likelihood of this happening is probably the same as McCain accepting the VP nomination from Kerry. It is extremely unfortunate in my opinion that you were not able to get to where you wanted to get to in this industry but it is not too late. It would be an absolute pleasure to share the flight deck with you and to hear your many stories.


I think that if you looked at the ages of new hires all across the board in recent times/classes that you would see that many older guys/gals have been hired.


Since I am sure I cannot talk you into making a second attempt at this industry I will settle for the knowledge, wisdom, experience, etc, that you bring to this board. Doesn't seem like a bad consolation prize. Next time in the Denver area the beer/BBQ is on me.


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disclaimer.....
** I realize he was among the "original" group that crossed over and in no way, shape, or form do I support what he did, etc, to the good group of pilots at Mesa. I have/had no affiliation to Freedom or to him other than a few encounters with him out west.

 

[English]

hey pilotyip,

Everytime I respond to a thread you start, you send me a PM trying to further justify your position.

Please do not send me any more PMs. We can carry on our discussion here in this forum, not in private.

 

[350DRIVER]

Classy, real classy... I guess I shouldn't expect much more though from you. I guess it wouldn't have made too much sense to send that message via a pm.


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[English]

Seeming as I sent him a PM the FIRST time he did this, and he ignored my request, I chose to ask again. I figured if he ignored my request the first time, he must not read PMs. So, this way, he will get my message.

But thanks for making so many assumptions.