How to destroy your airline

[Russ]

Albie
My problem has always been that I am adroit at pointing out problems with out real solutions to them, aviation is no different.
While customer service may be where the rubber meets the road, whats ruining the airline encompasses far more than that. A general malaise prevails due in large part to 9/11. If or when it lifts(discounting foreign influence) depends greatly on management, unions and other concerned parties being interspective and finding out what they can do. We as an industry are still pointing fingers at the other side and blaming them. Until a little soul searching is done and a concensus is reached the industry will continue to sink.

 

[surplus1]

Alpie,

I agree with a lot of what you say, in concept. I do have some questions though. You seem to base your comments on what you define as "bad service" and you focus on ASA. Is it just ASA or is the problem systemic?

I work for another carrier that is now owned by Delta, i.e., Comair. I can't really pick on ASA, simply because I haven't flown on ASA that much. The few times that I have did not involve PNS so I know nothing about that station, in terms of what ASA does or doesn't do there. I know a little about what Comair does there, or perhaps I should say "did" there in the past.

On my limited times on ASA, it has always involved ATL as a change over point. I would have to agree that service is atrocious there. One problem that seems self-evident to me is insufficient gate space. However, there is (IMO) a different problem also and it's a people problem. I think every airline in Atlanta has a "people problem" when it comes to customer service, but ASA does seem to have more than it's share.

Before Comair was purchased by Delta we, the employees, had great pride in our Company and our jobs. Yes, there were problems and disagreements with management but candidly, they were seldom reflected in customer service. Today, as a subsidiary of Delta, we do lots of things that frankly would never have been tolerated when we were simply Comair. I don't see the change in ownership as being a positive thing, when it comes to customer service. Many Comair people have lost the feeling, the motivation and the loyalty that we had for our Company. We changed from being somebody in our own little world, to being nobody (and treated as such) in Delta's big world. IMO, service has suffered significantly as a consequence. Just my opinion.

I admit to prejudice and it is difficult to judge others and natural to prefer your own. Nevertheless, I do think it is fair to say that before it was acquired by Delta, Comair could rightfully claim that the service and treatment provided to our customers was equal to any, including Delta mainline. Our goal was never to be "equal", but always a little better and we achieved that. Of course we didn't have "first class" amenities and never would have. However, we were there when we were supposed to be more than 98% of the time. We left when we were supposed to leave. We didn't lose peoples baggage nearly as often as mother Delta, or for that matter anyone else does.

Our flight attendants always managed to smile even in the worst of circumstances and treated our passengers with "kid gloves". Our ramp people worked for peanuts, but they had the same attitude that SWA ramp people have and went out of their way to do their part and make things work. Our pilots were proud of their Company and its progress. They were also proud of its potential and, for the most part, wanted to be a part of that and participate in our own future. We were happy to be "building" from nothing "The Best Little Airline in America". We didn't make the "big bucks" of the major airlines and we knew we never would. Just like SWA pilots know that they will always fly only 737s (or whatever takes their place in the future), we were not (again in the majority) pining over somebody else's airplanes or jobs. Our focus was in the success of our own Company. Many of us, self included, made more money in our Company's stock than we were paid to fly (something that is always overlooked). Most of that died on the day we were acquired.

It was great to be "a part of something" and we were happy with being a gold fish in our little pond. Circumstance beyond the control of either our management or our people caused us to lose our airline. We were not "accepted" by our new masters and, as pilots, we soon discovered that our imagined "brothers" were in fact our enemies, who looked down on us and basically hated our guts. They didn't hesitate to tell us at every opportunity. In other words, our entrepernurial spirit and sense of belonging to something worth while, was summarily squashed. If that has translated into inferior service, is it any wonder?

When you remove a diamond from is carefully crafted mount of solid gold and place it in a poorly designed brass setting, it is still a diamond, but few can tell it from a zircon. Dump in a sack full of zircons and brass rings and before too long, you won't be able to identify it without scientific analysis.

We went from having a carefully orchestrated business plan that filled our airplanes with happy customers that kept coming back, to a system of organized chaos, run by people that don't understand the segment of the business that we are in and, in the main, resent our very presence and what do you get?

Comair now serves Atlanta, something that we didn't do before. What we provide out of ATL is not much better than what ASA provides. There are no Comair people there, except those on board the aircraft. The ramp people are lethargic, the CSAs are surly and unfriendly, etc., etc. We can get an airplane to ATL on time or even early, but to get it out of ATL seems to be a near impossibility. I have no doubt whatever that if the old Comair mangement was running that show, we would either fix those problems or stop serving Atlanta. It disrupts a big percentage of our downline operation and is nothing short of a disaster. Our current management doesn't seem to know or, if they know, doesn't seem to care.

Delta management may be great at running a global airline, but they know little about running an efficient small airline and, it shows.

I hate to dwell on "the past", but I don't know another way to address the questions you have raised. Yesterday, we often had problems at stations where we had to buy our handling and customer service from "other airlines" (among them Delta). When those problems were not quickly resolved, we put our own people in the station and eliminated the problem. Service was our only business and our management knew that the welfare of our Company depended on it. So did every employee, with rare exception. We had the same kind of motivation that SWA people seem to have and it worked. We built the most profitable airline in the country. That is now "history".

When we were forced to "sell" our Company, our CEO told me (personally) that things would never be the same. We would continue to grow, but the product we proudly provided would be lost in the process. He wasn't wrong.

We experienced a pilot strike that lasted way too long. Our "new owners" forced that strike to occur and made it last far longer than it should have. They "saved" 50 million dollars by not giving in to what they called our "unreasonable demands". They threw away 700 million dollars (their number) of the shareholder's money to do it. We got little and they lost much. Most importantly, they lost the loyalty of the employees, not just the pilots either. They call it a victory. I call it stupidity.

What the pilots sought they had already been seeking for two years before Comair was acquired. Nothing was changed or "bumped up" because of the Delta purchase. I can't prove it, but I firmly believe that if Delta had NOT purchased the Company, we may still have had a strike, but it certainly would not have become a war and would never have lasted for the time that it did. Comair itself could never have absorbed a $700 million strike and Comair management nor Comair pilots would never have caused one. Our management was not going to destroy the Company over a dispute with its pilots. The pilots would never have destroyed Comair over a dispute with management. We both knew that. Delta's management didn't care what happened to Comair or to Comair's pilots. Comair's pilots didn't care what happened to Delta, and there you have it.

Bad service is the product of bad management and employees that "don't care". The atmosphere is controlled by management. People, i.e., employees, will do anything for a Company that cares about them. They will "give" far more than they get. The SWA model seems to recognize that fact. The Comair model recognized it too. The Delta model once did, but apparently it doesn't any more. It certainly never did with respect to the former employees of Comair, who in fact are now Delta employees, not recognized as such. The "Delta Family" was executed by Delta management. Sometimes you can lose a lot more money by trying to make unwise economies at the expense of product quality. In the old fashioned world we called it "penny wise and pound foolish."

Perhaps the same is true of ASA employees. I don't really know enough about ASA so I can't criticize them directly. I hope I'm wrong in our case as well as in their case. Sadly I doubt it.

The airline business is a service business. You are correct when you infer that the only thing we have to sell is "good service". That's the product. We have the tools (good airplanes and good people) but we don't have the motivation any more. The restaurant business is also a service business. You can buy the best raw materials and have a nice facility, but if the cook is lousy and the waiters don't care, it won't be long before your "restaurant" becomes just another MacDonald's. Most people know that MacDonald's is not a "restaurant", it's a fast food joint, with bad food and no "service", but it's cheap. Is that what Delta management wants?

Cheap tickets are NOT the answer. We have to be better than Brand X. We are not any more. I think you've touched a nerve with your post. I don't pretend to know how to run an airline, but I can sure see when things are going the way they should.

Southwest is somewhat of a rarity. Seldom does a successful mom-and-pop operation become a bemoth without losing the touch that makes it special. SWA seems to have done it. I wonder why?

 

[Capn Lucky]

First, let me say that I'm thrilled to see this thread. The majors (employees and stockholders) had better look at what they are doing and how they are doing it. This isn't going to be like Enron where the upper management killed the business. The employees make an airline run and make customers come back. Now, a six million bonus for the CEO of US Air is BS and we all know it. However, if everyone who is at the working end of that organization takes ownership of their job, then they stand a fighting chance. SWA and Jet Blue are eating the major's lunch because they perform at a reasonable price. The employees are the single biggest asset to each of those companies and the reason people look to them for their travel needs.

The business travel market was heading downhill before the 11th. The economy was in recession long before "W" took office and will take time to recover. Security plays a huge part in getting this customer back in the air. The industry MUST make the system user friendly or the market will find a way around flying like the internet or charters. I can think or two large east coast companies who will fly middle management on the corporate aircraft. One even mirrors a Delta Schedule. The reason for this is that flying from a terminal has become wasted time when someone has to show 2 hours early for a one hour flight.

IMHO

Steve

 

[Typhoon1244]

SWA and Jet Blue are eating the major's lunch because they perform at a reasonable price.

And they don't make promises they can't keep.

 

[asacap]

AlbieF15,

There is no question about it, ASA gate agents are amongst the worst. I have had several problems with them and it seems to only get worse, yet ASA sets new records for passengers flown each and every month. I have a question though, what airline do you work for and how is the customer service there? Also, I disagree with one point you made way earlier, I believe the majority of passengers only care about one thing, PRICE. All the people I talk to make reference to the ticket cost first. I don't think the regionals are in as much trouble as you think. They are currently competing effectively in the worst of times. They are as recession proof as an aircraft can get. I respect your opinion very much, but disagree on the future of airline travel. When the economy picks up, the majors will be in a position to smother jb and airtan, probably not sw though. Think about it, Delta can compete with a range from 50 seats to 300. I believe the future is secure for Delta and ASA. Not cocky, just confident.

 

[Britpilot]

I wonder how long it will be before the corporate, charter and fractional operators have to implement additional security measures other than a photo ID check? Seems inadequate to me.

 

[TurboS7]

Hang on new security measures for December are in place for all FBO, Part 135, and all 121 non-sked. operators. No one is going to miss the joys of this insanity.

 

[RJFlyer]

Albie - you are right that ASA's ATL customer service is horrible. Our DFW service, however, is not. Is that because of company culture, or rather because of the area's culture? And does the amount they're paid play into it?

For what ASA is willing to pay, the folks in ATL are all we can get, and those folks have NO work ethic or customer service mentality. Try going into the McDonald's on Viriginia Ave in ATL sometime, and see the quality of service you get. Same as at ASA, and for good reason - we pay the same and hire from the same pool. Pay more, and you can be more selective in who you hire, and get higher-quality employees.

By contrast, go into the new Southlake QT gas station near DFW and see what kind of service you get - friendly, smiling, willing to help. Same as at ASA, and we pay about the same. In this case, though, the difference is that there is an overall better attitude and work ethic here in Dallas. As a result, our passengers seem to have a better experience in DFW than in ATL (and we as flight crews certainly do).

surplus hinted that ASA's ops in ATL made Comair's performance suffer, and intimated that if Comair hired Comair people that things would be better. For the reasons listed above, I don't believe that's true, unless Comair were willing to pay more to get better quality airport staff. You pay peanuts, you get monkeys (in ATL, anyway - and no racial slur intended).

So how can ASA fix its customer service problems? In ATL, better pay. That's the only way. You can't train surly people to be shiny and happy. You have to hire them already that way. The only way to get those people is to pay them at least what AirTran is paying. Then we'll get the right people in place. Until then, we can try to improve training but it'll be wasted breath. And this doesn't just apply to CSAs, but to all the station employees - rampers especially.

The other complaint Albie had was that it seemed we cancelled flights if the airplane wasn't full. That could not be further from the truth. We almost NEVER cancel flights, and when we do, it's because the airplane is well and truly BROKEN (not deferrable and can't be fixed in a reasonable amount of time). I've flown legs several times with one solitary passenger, and even flown revenue legs empty.

beytzim and KingAirer also make great points about SWA's and JetBlue's successes - they're new (relatively speaking). When you're part of a new, smaller company, you are more motivated to make the company work, and will generally have a better work ethic because you feel you are helping to build something, and that your contribution makes a difference (and stock options/programs help). When you become part of a huge, long-established company, that same feeling isn't there. And it shows. Also, as a newer company the overhead is not as high - retirements being one part of that. I also heard/read somewhere (probably here) that JetBlue can post a profit largely because a lot of the lease payments and interest has been deferred (I may be wrong on that) - but profitability makes a difference in the traveling public's perception of a company. Don't get me wrong, the SWA business model apparently works very well, but there are other factors too.

 

[SDF2BUF2MCO]

A customer's perspective

Interesting posts....
As a customer, wanted to chime in what the view is like (although it does sound like most of you have a pretty good idea already) from the back.

Overall my personal experience has been OK. Nothing great but OK. I've been on most the airlines. Usually go NWA mainly due to they upgrade me to 1st without my asking. There is a difference (sometimes) between 1st and coach as far as the attitude of service. I try to be a "wallflower" and not bother the help. There are enough "problem" customers to deal with. I like the laid back atmosphere of SWA but don't enjoy the crowds (good for SWA though!).

My last few years in Louisville I'd fly TWA. They seemed like they were trying hard. Stopped flying them when I moved to Buffalo (TWA didn't serve BUF).

Again, my experience has been OK. I will say though that it is not always an enlightening experience. It is more of necessary evil to get where you need to go. There isn't really one airline that makes me want to fly them because of their uniqueness. It is almost as if an airline ticket is a commodity. Nothing more, nothing less. As a kid I remember the pre-deregulation days flying Frontier, that was a good experience (don't know what the price of the ticket was though). Times have changed, that's just the way it is. The business today seems to be price, be on time, and don't mess up the luggage.

MK, you're correct regarding middle and upper managers (at least at my company). They're still flying the airlines. No fractionals or charters yet. Although I have tried to convince our Prez that we need a jet (with me as PIC
!). So far, our company has not cut back on travel and we still have the autonomy to choose our schedule as well as the carrier. We're probably not the norm though.

Good luck to all and don't sell yourselves short (especially the regional folks).

 

[enigma]

Albie,
Great thread, with a great point. Here at Spirit, we are upgrading our service in recognition of just that point. Replacing some coach seat rows (2+3) with a 2 + 2, "almost first" class. Upgrading some of the inflight snacks, and most importantly, sending the FA's and CSA's to customer care school. The owners seem to understand that in the future, we will not be able to rely on our price advantage; and must actually work on making people feel comfortable and providing real service. We have a long way to go, but it's a start.

regards
8N