How to destroy your airline

[#1 Windmilling]

Hey All,
Great discussion here, even with Clownpilot. We are all entitled to our opinion. Here's something I placed on another thread:


Answer the following:

What is most important when "flying" through turbulence?

1- Airspeed

2- Altitude

3- Configuration

4- ATTITUDE

I think number 4 is the right answer......


Right now, JB is doing very well and it has a LOT to do with the attitude of the folks working there.

Happy Flying

-#1W

 

[Clownpilot]

LOL

NOW THAT'S FUNNY.

GOOD ONE.

Ah yes....there he is folks......that delightfully tactfull individual known as Clownpilot. The man, the myth, the legend behind such insightfull tidbits such as "You're an angry little Eagle Troll," and "Please kill yourself." And who can forget these memorable moments: "These darn Eagle Troll Flowthrough Losers," and "....your angry Troll Asses."

Order your copy now before they're all gone............

 

[Clownpilot]

OH YEAH

HMmmmmmmmmm,

Yes I think I know you. Aren't you that guy I saw the other day at the airport? You know, it was about 8 AM and I was walking down the terminal on the way to begin my preflight when I passed you. You were all bleary eyed and walking funny with a hypnotized look on your face. Almost like you had been up all night staring at something. I noticed you were going the other way so obviously you were leaving the airport. Or maybe you were just confused. Anyway, my advice to you is not to stay up all night, it's bad for your health and very tough on your body.

PS
Part of your shirt was untucked too. I hope the curtain in your hotel room didn't have a hole in it. Was it a full moon that night??????

Clown,

What an appropriate screen name, I couldn't have named you better myself. Awfully bitter, aren't we? Must run all the way back to your performance in flight school...

Just to set the record straight, there are plenty of us out here who are exactly where we want to be, not "stuck at a package carrier or crappy regional airline." It may be hard for you to swallow, but not everyone in the world wants to be you. I came to FedEx over AA and DAL for many reasons, not the least of which was historical performance in both up and down economic cycles. I guess I can add one more reason to my list...I don't have to work with a guy like you.


Albie,

Great post, excellent discussion - the reason this forum exists.

 

[Typhoon1244]

Correct me if I'm wrong--I'm showing up late on this thread--but I think one of AlbieF15's main points was that the level of customer service as some of the Regionals is killing their associated Major. Listen Albie, I'm at one of those Regionals right now, and I've got one thing to say to you: you're exactly right. (I can't agree with you about the "breakdowns," though...)

Not long ago in Atlanta, my first officer ran up to the gate to see if he could wrestle a dispatch release away from them. The gate agent was standing there shuffling paper and wasn't looking up. Our hero stood there patiently waiting for her to finish. After a few seconds, still without looking up, she says, "sir, I don't have time to help you right now, you need to go down to the other end of the desk." My F/O was caught off guard. "Excuse me?" he asked. Now she looks up, pauses, and says, "oh, I'm sorry. I didn't know you were a pilot. What can I do for you?"

You mean she would have treated a passenger that way?

Too often, we in the cockpit can see exactly what's going on within our corporate and market structure...but we're trapped behind customer service personnel who are apparently genetically incapable of providing customer service! So, we try to repair what damage we can with big smiles, lots of informative and apologetic P.A. announcements, free booze if necessary...and that's assuming that by now, your intrepid flight crew isn't too pissed off about the two-hour delay to talk to anybody.

I'm not saying that fixing customer service will solve all of our mainline/regional problems, but I do think that if our "leaders" don't start making this a priority, a lot of our mainline/regional problems may become irrelevant. Passengers don't remember flights that went well, but they darned sure remember the ones that didn't.

And you mainline guys who blame us regional guys for the level of service we provide: hey, we're doing the best we can. Unfortunately, as a passenger makes his journey from check-in to baggage claim, there's only so much you can do from the cockpit.

 

[chawbein]

I am not a commercial pilot, but I fly several times per year. When I go somewhere I fly 1. Southwest or if that is not available, 2. Continental. I have had so many bad experiences that I will NEVER fly NWA again. I have spent more time in lines with NWA than with any other airline. I have never been treated more rudely than by NWA ticket agents and flight attendants.

I prefer Southwest because they are efficient (I spend less time in line) and they have a smile on their faces, imagine that, a f*cking smile. I don't expect too much for my $200-$300, just to be checked-in in a timely manner (less than 45 minutes), get a soft drink and some peanuts, and have someone smile when I'm in the airport and on the plane. One time on a SWA flight, we were delayed and the pilot stood up in front of everyone and told jokes on the P.A., amazingly, nobody was b!tching about being delayed.

Sorry, I'm done venting now.

 

[MetroSheriff]

Too often, we in the cockpit can see exactly what's going on within our corporate and market structure...but we're trapped behind customer service personnel who are apparently genetically incapable of providing customer service! So, we try to repair what damage we can with big smiles, lots of informative and apologetic P.A. announcements, free booze if necessary...and that's assuming that by now, your intrepid flight crew isn't too pissed off about the two-hour delay to talk to anybody.

I'm not saying that fixing customer service will solve all of our mainline/regional problems, but I do think that if our "leaders" don't start making this a priority, a lot of our mainline/regional problems may become irrelevant. Passengers don't remember flights that went well, but they darned sure remember the ones that didn't.

And you mainline guys who blame us regional guys for the level of service we provide: hey, we're doing the best we can. Unfortunately, as a passenger makes his journey from check-in to baggage claim, there's only so much you can do from the cockpit.

Typhoon,

Very well put.

As one of the front line, regional "team members", I find the level of customer service appalling. Often, despite the best efforts of the flight crew (FA included), you just know the pax are walking away vowing to never fly our airline again.

Perhaps I am crazy, but I would forego a miniscule payraise, IF there was someway to gaurantee that mgt would use the $ to improve the quality of service that they provide.

I am not talking about leather seats in the RJ. Personally, the middle seat, even an aisle seat, in coach on a crowded 757 is no more comfy than an RJ REGARDLESS of stage length. I am talking about good old fashioned customer service. A gate agent with a smile and perhaps an inkling of desire to do their job with some professionalism and pride would be a fantastic start.

All the payraises in the world are not going to help me if I get furloughed because the pax decide to take greyhound because they are treated better and have a chance of getting to the destination on time. Not to mention the possibility of ALL the flying going to Skywest because they provide a quality product that Delta is proud to market.

Try flying thru SLC sometime, after dealing with the b00bs in ATL, you'll think you died and went to heaven.

 

[KingAirer]

How much of JBlue's and Aitrans success can you atribute to not having to pay the large amounts of retirements to pilots who have been retired for many years? What will happen when they hit their 20th (or XX) birthday and their airplanes are getting old and they are paying more people on the retirement list then current list?

An honest question

 

[Timebuilder]

A great thread, and for the most part, a civil one.

Costs and service have always been the watchwords in any industry. The carriers with a coordinated effort between the employee and management will survive.

It's a shame that a bunch of us can't get together and start our own airline. So much thoughtful talent here...

 

[TurboS7]

Thanks AirTran

I just jumpseated down from MSP to FLL. At MSP I had the choice to jumpseat between Airtran, CO, and ATA. The gates were all next to each other leaving within 20 minutes and the JS was availiable on each, I guess a commuters wet dream, whatever.
I decided to try AirTran just to see how they were doing. I'll just put aisde the fact that as a fellow pilot the flight crews and cabin crews treated me like royalty, this includes the gate agents also. I got to sit in first class by the insistance of the cabin and flight crews, I offered to sit in the back. Needless to say I was 'headsup" to see how they treated the customer.
AirTran went way out of their way to show appreciation for the customer. I fly on SWA a lot and their customer service attitude on my flights beat SWA. We were late out of MSP and people were nevous about making their connections. The FA's handled these inquires with knowledge, honesty, and grace. In the end AirTran held all the tight fllights so that everyone was able to make their connections. Now that is a real airline, putting the customer first over the schedule.
On the leg from ATL to FLL we had a Delta guy jumpseating on the flight with us, I guess that speaks for itself. For all you Airtran guys thanks for a great day, keep up the great work, and people do notice the diffrence. At this point you are light years ahead of DAL, UAL, and even AA. They are still trying to get it all figured out.

 

[AlbieF15]

Turbo,

Your experiences mirror mine in ATL exactly. AT has the
gracious, take care of the customer attitude. ASA (as mentioned in a previous post) many times won't make eye contact with pax when they get busy at a desk. Where would you spend $250 on your next ticket given the choice?

As for retirement pay, salaries, etc...that is not relevant to customer service. Nothing says a highly paid CSA (union or non union) can't provide as good or better service than the underpaid one--and common sense says they SHOULD. If ASA is paying bottom wages in ATL, then that is what they are getting. If AirTran is "low cost", then why is there service so much better than the more expensive majors? It doesn't take MONEY to be nice to pax...it takes a committment by the company leadership. I think that is the issue here to a greater extent than pay--as a matter of fact I don't know how the whole "customer service stinks" thread morphed into pay scales at majors verses upstarts. Those flight cancellations don't come from CSAs...that comes from somewhere higher up. That issue by itself if the #1 gripe I hear in small markets about ASA.

As for the pilots at regionals--I'm on your side. In a perfect world, we'd take the 777 Captains pay, divide it by X seats, and give you a similar rate for your 33, 50, 78 seats etc. This would give you guys a well deserved pay raise, and would eliminate the articifical discount the airlines get by flying the smaller planes. Then the flight managers could match airframe to customer requirements and profitabilty, without the artifical "C" scale that is currently in place.

Metro/Typhoon--most of my jumpseating is on regionals (small town boy here) and I see first hand the hard work you guys do. Skywest does have a good rep...I hope to fly them sometime soon. Support your unions and keep the pressure on. As the majors try to squeeze mainline (your future job, most likely) you applying pressure on wages there will either A) raise your pay or B) eliminate some regional jobs and add major jobs--helping you out or C) Both! At least that's the opinion of a not so well informed, beer swilling, tic tac toe playing, night flying...well...you get the picture.

For anyone interested in Fedex, the dirty little secret is over 50% of our flying is day trips now....1-3pm launches and roll into the hotel (and bar) around 10pm-1am. I've been at FDX only 8 months, and I fly days since there have been 200 hired since Jan. How many times do you have to be furloughed to be a 'real airline pilot?" If the answer is one, I'll take not being part of the "real crowd". So...it wasn't me that got caught bleared eyed at 0630 as CP staggered off with his seniority number 300 (age 54) flight attendents to the airport...I was still in bed ordering a room service breakfast to fuel me up before my 10am 2 hour workout. A man's gotta have some strength for that 2.5 hours of block time they are making my fly every day.