How to destroy your airline

[Britpilot]

I wonder how long it will be before the corporate, charter and fractional operators have to implement additional security measures other than a photo ID check? Seems inadequate to me.

 

[TurboS7]

Hang on new security measures for December are in place for all FBO, Part 135, and all 121 non-sked. operators. No one is going to miss the joys of this insanity.

 

[RJFlyer]

Albie - you are right that ASA's ATL customer service is horrible. Our DFW service, however, is not. Is that because of company culture, or rather because of the area's culture? And does the amount they're paid play into it?

For what ASA is willing to pay, the folks in ATL are all we can get, and those folks have NO work ethic or customer service mentality. Try going into the McDonald's on Viriginia Ave in ATL sometime, and see the quality of service you get. Same as at ASA, and for good reason - we pay the same and hire from the same pool. Pay more, and you can be more selective in who you hire, and get higher-quality employees.

By contrast, go into the new Southlake QT gas station near DFW and see what kind of service you get - friendly, smiling, willing to help. Same as at ASA, and we pay about the same. In this case, though, the difference is that there is an overall better attitude and work ethic here in Dallas. As a result, our passengers seem to have a better experience in DFW than in ATL (and we as flight crews certainly do).

surplus hinted that ASA's ops in ATL made Comair's performance suffer, and intimated that if Comair hired Comair people that things would be better. For the reasons listed above, I don't believe that's true, unless Comair were willing to pay more to get better quality airport staff. You pay peanuts, you get monkeys (in ATL, anyway - and no racial slur intended).

So how can ASA fix its customer service problems? In ATL, better pay. That's the only way. You can't train surly people to be shiny and happy. You have to hire them already that way. The only way to get those people is to pay them at least what AirTran is paying. Then we'll get the right people in place. Until then, we can try to improve training but it'll be wasted breath. And this doesn't just apply to CSAs, but to all the station employees - rampers especially.

The other complaint Albie had was that it seemed we cancelled flights if the airplane wasn't full. That could not be further from the truth. We almost NEVER cancel flights, and when we do, it's because the airplane is well and truly BROKEN (not deferrable and can't be fixed in a reasonable amount of time). I've flown legs several times with one solitary passenger, and even flown revenue legs empty.

beytzim and KingAirer also make great points about SWA's and JetBlue's successes - they're new (relatively speaking). When you're part of a new, smaller company, you are more motivated to make the company work, and will generally have a better work ethic because you feel you are helping to build something, and that your contribution makes a difference (and stock options/programs help). When you become part of a huge, long-established company, that same feeling isn't there. And it shows. Also, as a newer company the overhead is not as high - retirements being one part of that. I also heard/read somewhere (probably here) that JetBlue can post a profit largely because a lot of the lease payments and interest has been deferred (I may be wrong on that) - but profitability makes a difference in the traveling public's perception of a company. Don't get me wrong, the SWA business model apparently works very well, but there are other factors too.

 

[SDF2BUF2MCO]

A customer's perspective

Interesting posts....
As a customer, wanted to chime in what the view is like (although it does sound like most of you have a pretty good idea already) from the back.

Overall my personal experience has been OK. Nothing great but OK. I've been on most the airlines. Usually go NWA mainly due to they upgrade me to 1st without my asking. There is a difference (sometimes) between 1st and coach as far as the attitude of service. I try to be a "wallflower" and not bother the help. There are enough "problem" customers to deal with. I like the laid back atmosphere of SWA but don't enjoy the crowds (good for SWA though!).

My last few years in Louisville I'd fly TWA. They seemed like they were trying hard. Stopped flying them when I moved to Buffalo (TWA didn't serve BUF).

Again, my experience has been OK. I will say though that it is not always an enlightening experience. It is more of necessary evil to get where you need to go. There isn't really one airline that makes me want to fly them because of their uniqueness. It is almost as if an airline ticket is a commodity. Nothing more, nothing less. As a kid I remember the pre-deregulation days flying Frontier, that was a good experience (don't know what the price of the ticket was though). Times have changed, that's just the way it is. The business today seems to be price, be on time, and don't mess up the luggage.

MK, you're correct regarding middle and upper managers (at least at my company). They're still flying the airlines. No fractionals or charters yet. Although I have tried to convince our Prez that we need a jet (with me as PIC
!). So far, our company has not cut back on travel and we still have the autonomy to choose our schedule as well as the carrier. We're probably not the norm though.

Good luck to all and don't sell yourselves short (especially the regional folks).

 

[enigma]

Albie,
Great thread, with a great point. Here at Spirit, we are upgrading our service in recognition of just that point. Replacing some coach seat rows (2+3) with a 2 + 2, "almost first" class. Upgrading some of the inflight snacks, and most importantly, sending the FA's and CSA's to customer care school. The owners seem to understand that in the future, we will not be able to rely on our price advantage; and must actually work on making people feel comfortable and providing real service. We have a long way to go, but it's a start.

regards
8N

 

[Typhoon1244]

...and most importantly, sending the FA's and CSA's to customer care school.

I'm skeptical about those kinds of schools. Good people skills are something you have or you don't. I don't think it can be taught.

My company subscribed to a form of "charm school" for a while. The "Awesome Service Academy." At first, all of us were getting these audio tapes each month, full of tips on how to improve our customer awareness. My favorite one was a tape about self-esteem. (You'll make your customers happier if you feel good about yourself, etc.) Among other things, the tape suggested we could all improve our self image by "taking chances."

Taking chances. Yeah, that's what we all want in a pilot.

Anyway, they went for this school pretty aggressively. I think those of you who've been through ATL have seen how well it worked.

 

[Bluestreak]

Penny wise and Pound Foolish

Geez,lotsa good posts here.I do trust we all realize that us regional drivers represent the mainline partner.Pax know squat about regionals-they bought a ticket on US Airways,AA,DAL,etc.Alas,Airways' clueless management is at it again,by replacing PDT in FL with AirMidwest 1900's-a roomy,cool Dash to a sweltering Beech-just great.No F/A,no drink,no nothing.Does Mesa own even ONE Dash that has a working APU ? PDT and PSA,CHQ,ALG,TSA and everbody else has an APU fail,but it gets fixed ! How lovely our pax roast,while across the ramp others sit in a nice air-conditioned airplane.Notice how Eagle has an air cart that keeps the cabin cool ? They know what they're doing ! They actually have people who can operate a jet bridge without destroying the airplane ! See how bad they look-Mesa can't even afford to paint "Barney"-when did Airways go to the blue/grey scheme ? 7 years ago ! Hey,Dave-we're going backward here ! This is no slam against Mesa/AMW crews-they do the best with what they have.But Airways pax are suffering (the ones that haven't abandoned us) and the competition will eat us alive if we don't do better.As with most things,you get what you pay for.With Airways shifting more flying to Express,it's time to pay for some quality people (and a raise to keep the ones we have).A ticket/gate agent that knows Sabre inside and out is priceless ! (If you've ever tried to long-sell a ticket or do an international reissue,you'll know what I mean).Express rampers need a pay raise as well.Has anybody ever had to wait at a certain hub for the rampers to wake up,put down the paper,etc. to come out and marshall you in ? Get a lav service in LGA ? People aren't going to kill themselves for $8/hr.

 

[surfnole]

And while we are on the topic of customer complaints......I am taking a trip to Costa Rica for a week of surfing.

American wants $70-$90 bucks (hard to get a straight answer) EACH way. I would pay more to fly with American, but not that much more.

Instead, I am going with Lacsa. I will enjoy the free Imperials and Tropicals on the way down!

 

[Rick1128]

As for corporate operators only taking upper management, it depends on the company. It seems that more and more companies are opening up the availability of the company aircraft to lower level personnel. True they will generally take more than one or two people at this level. But they are also combining trips. I have done trips with three outbound legs dropping off lower level employees along the way. Also several companies have corporate shuttles and have heard of more that are considering them. Companies are having several new items to consider. Like a one hour airline flight requiring four or more hours of an employee's time. Propriatory company materials and documents being seen and handled by anyone and everyone. Security measures that are questionable. Etc.

Brit, yes there will be new security rules for Part 135 and non-schedule 121 operators. It is my understanding that non-sked 121 operators are now under the new security rules because they operate out of the sterile areas. Most of the corporate operators will not be effected greatly, becasue most of them already have security measures in effect (pre 9/11, I might add). Besides they KNOW who is on their aircraft. Most of the Part 135 operators I know already have programs in effect either officially or unofficially. And generally for the most part they know their customers. I do know that Part 135 pilots are keeping themselves aware of who is getting on their aircraft. I know of one crew who refused a trip because things didn't seem right. Management did try pressure, but it didn't work. The crew also called several of the other operators on the field to give them a heads up about these people. If it doesn't seem right, it probably isn't.

FBO have security programs in effect, airline airports seem to be the most strict. But again, they generally know who belongs and who doesn't. And that really is the key in security, awareness. Like the old sargent said "Stay alert, Stay alive".

 

[Typhoon1244]

...I am taking a trip to Costa Rica for a week of surfing. American wants $70-$90 bucks (hard to get a straight answer) EACH way. Instead, I am going with Lacsa.

You're complaining about an $180 international round-trip fare? Why? My wife was standing over my shoulder just now; she said take her with you! Actually, her exact quote was, "sh_t, can we go to Costa Rica for $70-90? Let's go!"

 

[RJFlyer]

I think he's talking about the cost to take his board. Mama DAL charges us $75 to take one, or a mtn bike, etc.

 

[Typhoon1244]

I think he's talking about the cost to take his board.

OH! Well, like Gilda Radner used to say, "never mind."

(Is my face red or what? Oh, and my wife retracts her offer...)

 

[SDF2BUF2MCO]

Agree with Typhoon's comments regarding customer service. You either have it or you don't. It is the individual's personality. I have gotten wacked by my company for saying this. Customer service training has minimal impact, especially for the folks who don't want to do it anyway. The ivory tower types are in denial. They think the bells are supposed to ring once they show up for work because the company motivated them. The key is to try to find those personalities that have a mindset towards customer service. Not always an easy task.
Said it several times before, most people work because they want to put food on the table. Most jobs are not dream jobs. With that said, trying to do a good job is the honorable thing to do. May not be the most exciting thing, but it's the honorable thing.
Treat the folks with respect, enjoy being with them if at all possible, pay competitive wages and benefits. Pretty basic stuff - work and play well with others. If you get the right kind of people, treat them right (including pay, etc.) they'll figure out a way to take care of the customer. Nothing new under the sun.

 

[TurboS7]

I used to fly Crandell years ago in the Lears. he said at American all he had was a bunch of little Ceaser's(sp) running around with four strips trying to run the airline. He said they knew nothing about what it really took. I heard some pretty good stuff on the board here so I disagree with him.

 

[Caveman]

RJFLYER wrote:

"surplus hinted that ASA's ops in ATL made Comair's performance suffer, and intimated that if Comair hired Comair people that things would be better. For the reasons listed above, I don't believe that's true, unless Comair were willing to pay more to get better quality airport staff. You pay peanuts, you get monkeys (in ATL, anyway - and no racial slur intended)."

If your premise is true how do we explain SWA/JB success? They both pay less than the going rate for pilots and mechanics and CSA's yet customer service is allegedly stellar.

I believe that good customer service is based on an attitude that is cultivated at the corporate level and supported at the customer face to face level. If you don't hire personable people you won't get personable service. You also have to let the folks dealing with the customers have the latitude to 'make things right' in order to appease an unhappy customer. Handcuffing them with overreaching and unweildy operations rules stifles creative customer service.