How much IFR flight planning do you do?

[bigD]

Flight planning? What the heck are you guys talking about? Is that what you do when you don't have a button in the cockpit with a little D and an arrow sticking through it?

 

[Lead Sled]

"Tower Enroute Control" routes are very common in the northeast and California where approach facilities abut each other and cover a wide area.

You can go pretty far outside the "local" area and never speak with a Center controller as you are handed off from approach facility to approach facility. For example, there a TEC Route listed going from the BDL area in Connecticut down to Richmond VA, a 340 NM flight.

As has been already mentioned, in some areas, you don't even need to file ahead of time. In others you do. Either way, the A/FD and Jepp enroute information lists them in the same way as IFR preferred routes.

Here are the TEC routes for California. http://www.laartcc.org/tec/index.php

I file them by Route ID (ie SANM32) and we are normally cleared "as filed". Again, read the routings, way too complicated for use in high density airspace. It would simplify things greatly if they could simply insert a few named intersections where the airways intersect.

'Sled

 

[puddlejumper]

Here are the TEC routes for California. http://www.laartcc.org/tec/index.php

I file them by Route ID (ie SANM32) and we are normally cleared "as filed". Again, read the routings, way too complicated for use in high density airspace. It would simplify things greatly if they could simply insert a few named intersections where the airways intersect.

'Sled

Do these actually work? From what I can tell this is a flight-simmers site.

This site is NOT affiliated with the FAA, the real Los Angeles ARTCC or any of the Airlines listed. The information contained in this site should NOT be used for real world navigation.

This is probably just a statement their lawyers required them to put on there. My bad, I guess it's legit.

 

[Lead Sled]

Yes, they really work.

 

[bigD]

I used to use TEC all the time back when I was flying in Los Angeles. Very, very convenient. Can't really do it much around here unless I'm flying to San Antonio or something.

 

[Lead Sled]

Here's a better link: www.fly.faa.gov/Products/Coded_Depa..._Database/nfdc_preferred_routes_database.html

It will give you all of the TEC routes in the country.

'Sled

 

[gkrangers]

"Tower Enroute Control" routes are very common in the northeast and California where approach facilities abut each other and cover a wide area.

You can go pretty far outside the "local" area and never speak with a Center controller as you are handed off from approach facility to approach facility. For example, there a TEC Route listed going from the BDL area in Connecticut down to Richmond VA, a 340 NM flight.

As has been already mentioned, in some areas, you don't even need to file ahead of time. In others you do. Either way, the A/FD and Jepp enroute information lists them in the same way as IFR preferred routes.

Thanks....so in a way, its kinda like getting a local IFR but you can go outside the first TRACON? Will ATC provide the turns, or will you be expected to follow the TEC routing, just like if you filed a normal IFR plan with airways?

I don't remember going over it down here during my training.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Thanks....so in a way, its kinda like getting a local IFR but you can go outside the first TRACON? Will ATC provide the turns, or will you be expected to follow the TEC routing, just like if you filed a normal IFR plan with airways?

Both. It's really more like, actually, =exactly= like IFR Preferred Routes, except entirely in approach control airspace.

Using Sled's link (which includes both IFR Preferred Routes and TEC Routes), the BDL-RIC one I mentioned before is BDL GON CCC V16 RIC. Notice, VORs direct and an airway. Heading that way? When you file your flight plan, just put in that routing and, even in the busy northeast, you'd pretty likely to get "as filed."

And like any other IFR clearance, you can expect some vectoring in the busy areas, and stretches of your own navigation.

I don't remember going over it down here during my training.

Depending on where you trained, that's not that surprising. First, unfortunately, not a lot of time is spent in instrument training on enroute stuff to begin with - the checkride is so approach intensive. Second, even if you touched on IFR Preferred Routing, you probably didn't spend a lot of time on it since those city pairs tend to be for the "big boys." Third, instrument training tends to be localized. If you didn't train in the parts of the country that use them, you probably wouldn't be exposed to them (I did my instrument training in New England where they are used). Look at the number of folks who train at towered airports and haven't a clue what a "void time" clearance is or, if they know what it is, have a clue how to get and use one.

 

[gkrangers]

I need to do some non-towered IFR stuff eventually...Do I know how to get/use one? Maybe...if you feel like enlightening me, that'd be just great. I know the rules, I just have never done it.

I did my training in central Florida, out of Daytona. DAB-MCO-TPA is all terminal. Not sure if there are any TEC routes, probably not. I do check IFR preferred routing tho, since there is some of that around Florida.

 

[gkrangers]

Just filed with DUATS...called FSS an hour later and they never got it. FSS guy told me DUATS blows.

 

[minitour]

Just filed with DUATS...called FSS an hour later and they never got it. FSS guy told me DUATS blows.

You filed with DUATS and called FSS to get your clearance?

If so, you have to tell them you filed it with ___ Center. It's (most likely) in the computer. They'll probably give you a hard time, but its there.

OTOH...if they checked and its not in the computer...then my fears are justified.

The last thing I ever want to have happen is be on the ramp with the engines running, looking for an IFR to ORD with an arrival slot and I need to leave now to make it and..."sorry sir, there's nothing here".

That would suck....

-mini

 

[F16fixer]

duats

In regards to the main question.
The easiest way to flight plan is on Duats. It is available at most of the smaller airports where no other internet connection is available. Usually my planned route is to go direct. Under the selections just pick user selected routing and then type in the name of the destination airport. Then if you have an IFR gps great your all set, but I usually don't. I use a vfr only gps to fly ifr all the time. You have to make sure that you can Identify your postion with vors or a dme and adf at all times though. You also have to let FSS know in the remarks box that you are vfr gps only. Use AOPA's weather and your set. (easiest to read and navigate around the web site in my opinion)

Do many people still use RNAV?

I have been flying RNAV routes on a freight run lately, and if you don't stay on top of your position, it's real easy to just get lazy and go from selected point to the next and not know your position. Some of this could also be contributed to the fact that it's 3AM and I'm tired!

Just curious if many people fly this way still. There too cheap to put in a GPS for me.

 

[gkrangers]

You filed with DUATS and called FSS to get your clearance?

If so, you have to tell them you filed it with ___ Center. It's (most likely) in the computer. They'll probably give you a hard time, but its there.

OTOH...if they checked and its not in the computer...then my fears are justified.

The last thing I ever want to have happen is be on the ramp with the engines running, looking for an IFR to ORD with an arrival slot and I need to leave now to make it and..."sorry sir, there's nothing here".

That would suck....

-mini

I filed with DUATS...then I checked DUATS a half hour later to see if it was on file, it wasn't.. Then I called FSS to ask if the plan was on file, it wasn't. He told me filing thru DUATS just doesn't work...

 

[minitour]

I filed with DUATS...then I checked DUATS a half hour later to see if it was on file, it wasn't.. Then I called FSS to ask if the plan was on file, it wasn't. He told me filing thru DUATS just doesn't work...

That's gotta suck...did you ask them to check the Center computer?

-mini

 

[gkrangers]

That's gotta suck...did you ask them to check the Center computer?

-mini

No, he asked for my departure time and checked something based on that, maybe he was checking the center computer then?

I'll try it again next time.

But, this IFR stuff is cool.

Filed both ways today, its great!

 

[minitour]

No, he asked for my departure time and checked something based on that, maybe he was checking the center computer then?

I'll try it again next time.

But, this IFR stuff is cool.

Filed both ways today, its great!

Interesting stuff...let me know how it works next time. I'm skeptical of filing online...but if it works, it might be quicker

..and I agree...IFR is cool...and easier than VFR (IMO).

-mini

 

[cforst513]

it doesn't take long to file w/ FSS, i'd just use use duats to plan the route and file w/ FSS, plus you can check up on convective weather as well as any TFR's during football season.

 

[Pedro]

I like using the FSS too, I feela lot better when I caan taalk to somebody and get all the NOTAMs.

 

[gkrangers]

I like using the FSS too, I feela lot better when I caan taalk to somebody and get all the NOTAMs.

:werd: I like FSS...also feel like I'm more on record of getting a briefing if something goes wrong...that stuff gets recorded doesn't it?

I like hearing the words "No TFRs"...

 

[cforst513]

yes it's recorded