How Long til ABX Furloughs again?

[maxpwrset]

Say it aint so !

Hearing some scary rumors myself regarding the 8's and PFE's. I'm sure the pilot group would quit bidding open time in support of any layoff action.

Either that's the most tongue in cheek statement I've ever read, or it's the most ill informed conclusion I've ever seen anyone come to.

 

[Bitter]

Where are you getting your information Bitter? The LRD trip goes through LBB on it's way to LRD. Are you saying that LBB is being dropped too? If not then there would be no crew reduction on the ILN-LBB-LRD-LBB-ILN pairing. Even though it is apparant that DHL is looking for ways to cut costs in the US these reductions do not make immediate sense. Giving LRD to Astar, unless it is a through flight for them, will cost more than leaving it with ABX. Check the ACMI's. Additionally, it is doubtful they can truck DTW, CLE, PIT, and especially FNT in time for morning delivery. If they can truck the freight to these cities and still make the target service levels then the reduction make good financial sense. Even though you are right that we can expect additional reductions in the DC-9 flying in the future, much of the DC-9 attrition will be erased by the additional B767's coming this year and the training required for that fleet. The B767's crew ratio will be significantly higher than the DC-9 with reference to the type of flying that it does.

So....I agree with what you say, but what is your guess on furlough's?

 

[Clipperskip]

Furloughs?

So....I agree with what you say, but what is your guess on furlough's?

Since you asked....I guess is NO further furloughs at ABX!

 

[Sporto]

Either that's the most tongue in cheek statement I've ever read, or it's the most ill informed conclusion I've ever seen anyone come to.

I was rhetorically speaking.

I guess that crap at the end of each weekly union message we listen to is just that, Crap. How does it go again....."Remember to remain 100% united".....what a joke.

 

[rotor&wing]

bitter and sporto talking to each other...LOL

c'mon rhoid, can't you do anything original?

 

[Sporto]

Since ABX has not furloughed yet again I may be jumping to conclusions here. Even though past behavior is indicative of future behavior it is pointless to argue the pilot groups actions on "what if's".

Maybe the Clipper will be right, No Furloughs. Man I hope so.

What's with you Rotor.......Subject matter other than looking for somewhere to feed your face and you go and play the roid card. That dude is on here a lot but he's not everyone who doesn't share your point of view.

 

[rotor&wing]

What's with you Rotor.......Subject matter other than looking for somewhere to feed your face and you go and play the roid card. That dude is on here a lot but he's not everyone who doesn't share your point of view.

rhoid, please try something original. you're getting so predictable!

 

[erichartmann]

I guess that crap at the end of each weekly union message we listen to is just that, Crap. How does it go again....."Remember to remain 100% united".....what a joke.

Well Sporto, I guess you weren't listening when how to handle open flying vs. furloughs was discussed.

First, three court cases regarding unilateral action on the part of unions to corerce management spring to mind. In all three the judge in question ruled against the union. In two of them ecomonic harm was demonstrated by the company and the judge ordered the activity to cease, and levied a large fine with punitive damages against the union. In the third the judge indicated the action on the part of the union was illegal, but since it had ceased and no economic harm was proven no fine or damages were levied. None the less, in the third case the judge indicated in her written remarks that fines and damages were possible. So using an open flying ban to force management not to furlough is not in the cards. BTW, the judge in one of the cases noted that it did not matter what the public or private actions of the union's leadership were (and in this case, a sickout, the unions leadership was publicaly telling the pilots to cease and desist), the fact that the union's membership appeared, based on historic sick call levels, to be engaged in self-help was sufficient to rule against the union.

Second, the last time this came up the union tried to negotiate with management to reduce open flying an prevent a furlough. Management saw this as a means of demanding even more concessions from the union. In fact, according to my source everytime the unions sat down to talk with management about the issue a new demand for additional concessions was presented. If this attitude on managements part remains, I for one am not interested in forgoing open time to prevent furloughs.

 

[GoABX]

Hartmann, the cases you cite involved unions that were in status quo and barred from self-help. Our own union attorneys admit we screwed up last time because we had a small window to do something and it was frittered away and the opportunity was gone once negotiations were formally opened. You also also fail to mention the example of UPS, where the union membership quickly acted, solved the problem and no action was necessary.

The fact is the top seniority list is so used to the overtime that their personal 'needs' outweigh the good of the group. The fact is we have some selfish wh0res that would suck the teet to the point if there were only 2 guys left on the seniority list the #1 pilot would bid 16 days of OPF, even if it furloughed number #2 and #1 lost his job because he had no one to fly with. (I want all mine and all of yours...till the last day.)

 

[Bitter]

Hartmann, the cases you cite involved unions that were in status quo and barred from self-help. Our own union attorneys admit we screwed up last time because we had a small window to do something and it was frittered away and the opportunity was gone once negotiations were formally opened. You also also fail to mention the example of UPS, where the union membership quickly acted, solved the problem and no action was necessary.

The fact is the top seniority list is so used to the overtime that their personal 'needs' outweigh the good of the group. The fact is we have some selfish wh0res that would suck the teet to the point if there were only 2 guys left on the seniority list the #1 pilot would bid 16 days of OPF, even if it furloughed number #2 and #1 lost his job because he had no one to fly with. (I want all mine and all of yours...till the last day.)

Sad, but oh so true.

If Abx furloughs, I for one expect zero resolution through the stoppage of open time.

It would be business as usual!

I do not think we have long to wait to test this theory.

I hope I am wrong.....