How Long til ABX Furloughs again?

[rotor&wing]

fluuuuuuuuuuuussssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh................

rhoid swirls down the bowl again............

 

[penguin22]

gone again, huh?

I might even miss him while he's gone. Kinda like my dog misses his chewtoy after it gets tossed.

Hey Rhoid! How about ChewToy for your next username!!

 

[ABXbooger]

It really is amazing how easy it is to sniff him out...

Moderators, how does he keep getting on here?

 

[B737Dvr]

ABX Aquisition????

Hello everyone, I am new to this board, and was wondering if any current ABX AIR pilots know anything about the rumors regarding ABX's buying of Pace Airlines? I know there are B767's on the way (former Delta), so I have heard rumors that ABX may want to do something with them until they are converted to cargo. Furthermore, can someone explain to me what is the deal with why the current 767's do not have a large cargo door as part of the conversion? How does it haul anything meaningful without this door?

Thanks guys.

 

[Sporto]

Hello everyone, I am new to this board, and was wondering if any current ABX AIR pilots know anything about the rumors regarding ABX's buying of Pace Airlines?
It's a done deal! ABX will be flying pax hooters style part duex.

I know there are B767's on the way (former Delta), so I have heard rumors that ABX may want to do something with them until they are converted to cargo.
You can see 5 of them at various airshows this year until conversion! I hear they will be performing all kinds of aerobatics. Should be cool.

Furthermore, can someone explain to me what is the deal with why the current 767's do not have a large cargo door as part of the conversion? How does it haul anything meaningful without this door?
That's what Astar is for. C'mon, you know that.

Thanks guys.

Glad to be of help.

 

[ABXbooger]

The Delta 76's are getting cargo doors, as have all of the frames for a while. They are also getting the flat panel mod. Rumor has 2 more coming from Delta and also hearing some info about 767-300's coming from Asia.

On a seperate note the Pace deal has been flying around, no idea why. As far as the story about the ETOPS stuff, I was recently told we will have ETOPS in the very near future, all on our own. I asked why we would need it all of a sudden, all I got was a shrug...

 

[xspud]

Maybe someone else on the board has some info on Pace, I've heard the purchase rumor but that's it. I know ABX is interested in accquisitions, so it's possible they are looking at Pace. I don't think any of the Delta 767s will be flown as pax aircraft. As far as I know they're all scheduled to be converted before we take delivery. Those are all coming with standard cargo doors, by the way.

ABX aircraft w/o a cargo door use a "C" container and special loader. Airborne Express was in the overnight express delivery business and the C container has some advantages for that type of business. It's actually more efficient for some of the sorting operations. Any freight that is too large for the C container goes into the belly compartments. I've heard that virtually all of the freight that ILN handles will fit into a C or into the belly.

I'm amazed at the legs this thread has. I'm not that senior at ABX, but I do not expect to be furloughed and I think that confidence is shared by most of the pilot group here. That having been said, I try to keep my network up. I have a resume and I even have a couple of applications out. I began my first airline job over 30 years ago (as a ramper) and I have been continuously employed as a pilot for 26 years now. If I have learned anything in that time, it is that there is no sure thing in this business. FedEx and UPS are the cream of this business today and, if I were flying there, I would feel pretty confident about the future. At least as far as having a job until retirement. But it's incredible how fast the flying business can turn upside down. What's going to happen to the U.S. & global economy if oil prices stay at current levels or increase? NO company that operates airplanes is immune from hard times.

If a pilot is successful in this business it's because they worked hard and then were in the right place at the right time. I've always worked for good companies with good equipment. I've never been laid off, always had a paycheck, my wife didn't have to work (her choice) and I've lived where I wanted to. That's not because I'm a genius or super-pilot, far from it. I worked hard and then was at the right place at the right time. I have plenty of friends who worked just as hard, were just as good a pilot and now they are on the street. My point is that I don't think that pilots at successful companies somehow "deserve" or "earned" their position more than the pilots who are furloughed or working at less desirable companies. I don't appreciate the sniping or "flamebaiting" that comes from a self-righteous attitude. I'm glad I work at ABX, I think it's a great airline and I think we have a future. Whether you're flying at UPS, AS, Astar or Kalitta I accept you as a peer and hope that we ALL prosper. I feel the same about this business as I did about sports: play to win, play within the rules, respect your opponent and share a couple of beers after the game.

I hope this post isn't too "touchy-feely", it can be a pretty rough crowd on this forum!

 

[B737Dvr]

good info.....

Hey ABX booger and xspud, thanks for the info, it's amazing how better informed line people can be as compared to the office types that don't have a clue or are kept out of the loop.
Pace got 180 min ETOPS certification without ever being a previous ETOPS carrier from the start. That is due to their superb MX (most of which is furloughed USAIRWAYS). They have their own 145 Mx certficate, so I don't know how useful that will be for ABX. Rumors have it that ABX wants to join the available pool of CRAF carriers. (civil reserve air fleet). Take from that what you will, and that is the only logical reason for why they would be interested in Pace, since Pace has an operating certificate with vast worldwide route authority on the PAX side. I wonder how long a process and how much money would be required for ABX to seek PAX route authority to get to the point of where Pace is. Seems to me, that an acquisition would get them that immediately with the least amount of time and money spent.
FYI for those that care. or wonder......the whole sorry episode of Hooters Air is done. Their last flight was on April17th and they are no longer flying. Pace is continuing on just their own core charter business, while the acquisition/merger/buyout is taking it's due course! From what I have heard short of an official press announcement this deal is done.
Well anyways if anyone has any more concrete info or any better informed facts on the above please share them!

 

[ABXbooger]

B737,
Yeah, we are hearing the rumors also. The most plausible ones I have heard are we are interested in the MX hangers you guys have. We do a decent amount of third party mx and are doing the flat panel mods on all our 767's as well as any outside work. Could be we are looking for room to roam.

The CRAF deal would be interesting. It worries me a little bit about getting into pax ops...As far as the ETOPS, I would speculate that there is European flying in the near future.

spud, I am optimistic also, lots of furloughs, more aircraft on the way, increased charter flying for many different people, and I am certain DHL will eventually be a major player. Love the new ads...

 

[abxaviator]

ABX is already a CRAF carrier. We don't fly too much of it, just the occassional flight, but we do have a CRAF program and crewmembers who have volunteered to participate.

 

[penguin22]

I also think the Pace thing is nothing about ETOPS and all about MX and the hangers. After all, we don't own the ILN hangers anymore...

 

[B737Dvr]

Well now this makes it all the more interesting. Since the start of the year Pace has had about a 50% reduction in line crews (pilot list equaled 100 or so at end of 05'). This has reduced Pace to just about where it was in terms of staff when Hooters bought us. I have heard that ABX people have been in INT doing all sorts of auditing along with some "brass". I didnt know that ABX already had a CRAF program, perhaps it is just simply the PAX certificate authority that ABX wants. As far as the hanger space, pace doesnt own it, and leases it from TIMCO. we have wanted both sides of the hanger (one side can house 3 757's simultaneously) and maybe a 737.....but TIMCO being aware of our potential has not allowed us more space. I give up! lol
Everything is hush hush because of "confidentiality" reasons, which I can understand, but damn, we havent heard a god damn thing, not even a "standby more to come as it becomes available" from our people....so i dont know. Seems carriers are starting to get away from FE's where i read on another thread that Polar is going to dump alot of 100/200 series causing much mayhem there with their lists. It sounds like ABX is also headed in that direction and perhaps it is a smart move! Kitty Hawk is now flying around cargo 737's! and i dont know how that works, but it may be more economical that a DC-9. Hell UPS is leaning towards more 75/76's.....in the end, i only speculate while my family and I are in a continual holding pattern without any idea of whether an "EFC time" even exits......but when they do say something I'm sure it will be needed yesterday, with the troops having to either lose their job with no notice or if your lucky, go to school on a new airplane for 2 months with a day's notice!......go figure......

 

[penguin22]

As far as the hanger space, pace doesnt own it, and leases it from TIMCO.

Well that throws my theory out the window.

 

[Bitter]

How many aircraft/type does Pace still operate?

 

[penguin22]

since this thread has drifted all over the map, I'll go back to a point we were discussing earlier.

xspud made some good points, but I feel the need to clarify a bit from my perspective.

My point is that I don't think that pilots at successful companies somehow "deserve" or "earned" their position more than the pilots who are furloughed or working at less desirable companies. I don't appreciate the sniping or "flamebaiting" that comes from a self-righteous attitude. I'm glad I work at ABX, I think it's a great airline and I think we have a future. Whether you're flying at UPS, AS, Astar or Kalitta I accept you as a peer and hope that we ALL prosper. I feel the same about this business as I did about sports: play to win, play within the rules, respect your opponent and share a couple of beers after the game.

I hope this post isn't too "touchy-feely", it can be a pretty rough crowd on this forum!

While I agree in general with that, I'll point out its a little unique here at ABX in that those of us who were here at the very beginning did not "inherit" this airline from older pilots. WE are the ones who built it up from nothing. We started out flying cancelled checks with aztecs and aerostars and built it up to something that first Airborne Express bought, and now DHL.

I'll bet some of the top FDX pilots feel the same way. UPS, on the other hand, existed long before they ever hired a pilot.

I know it’s a “self-righteous attitude”, but sorry, it is what it is.

 

[penguin22]

The senior pilots don't want all theirs and all yours. They want what their seniorty entitles them to. You forget that all those senior pukes were once junior. I sat reserve BU (before union) when reserve was on call 24/7. You maybe got weekends off if you weren't sent somewhere. Sometimes you got sent out for 3+ weeks straight. The senior folks you so belittle stood up, said no more, and voted the union in. 2nd year pay in any seat is more than what Captains used to make, and you get more days off, reserve or not. What you want is what I earned and what I'm entitled to, and you're unwilling to wait your turn. Grow up or go play in traffic.

"What you want is what I earned "

That's a great line. I may want to steal it one day!

 

[erichartmann]

"What you want is what I earned "

That's a great line. I may want to steal it one day!

Help yourself.

WRT Pace I have heard we want the MX because we are looking at doing our own doors. :bomb:

 

[B737Dvr]

Pace operates 737's 2/3/4 series. They also operate 757's.
The website is totally old. We used to have 22ish planes but now are down to only 5ish. From info that I have gotten on this site, my ideas or thoughts on the why's of this merger have been quashed. I am looking forward to ABX's annual meeting of stockholders on May 8th, as we may get some info from the principals mouth!

 

[MJH767]

Good Luck on information from management about future plans. An awful lot has changed in the last 2 -3 years, including positive changes in employee relations, but they still play close to the vest concerning future plans