How Long til ABX Furloughs again?

[Sporto]

Since ABX has not furloughed yet again I may be jumping to conclusions here. Even though past behavior is indicative of future behavior it is pointless to argue the pilot groups actions on "what if's".

Maybe the Clipper will be right, No Furloughs. Man I hope so.

What's with you Rotor.......Subject matter other than looking for somewhere to feed your face and you go and play the roid card. That dude is on here a lot but he's not everyone who doesn't share your point of view.

 

[rotor&wing]

What's with you Rotor.......Subject matter other than looking for somewhere to feed your face and you go and play the roid card. That dude is on here a lot but he's not everyone who doesn't share your point of view.

rhoid, please try something original. you're getting so predictable!

 

[erichartmann]

I guess that crap at the end of each weekly union message we listen to is just that, Crap. How does it go again....."Remember to remain 100% united".....what a joke.

Well Sporto, I guess you weren't listening when how to handle open flying vs. furloughs was discussed.

First, three court cases regarding unilateral action on the part of unions to corerce management spring to mind. In all three the judge in question ruled against the union. In two of them ecomonic harm was demonstrated by the company and the judge ordered the activity to cease, and levied a large fine with punitive damages against the union. In the third the judge indicated the action on the part of the union was illegal, but since it had ceased and no economic harm was proven no fine or damages were levied. None the less, in the third case the judge indicated in her written remarks that fines and damages were possible. So using an open flying ban to force management not to furlough is not in the cards. BTW, the judge in one of the cases noted that it did not matter what the public or private actions of the union's leadership were (and in this case, a sickout, the unions leadership was publicaly telling the pilots to cease and desist), the fact that the union's membership appeared, based on historic sick call levels, to be engaged in self-help was sufficient to rule against the union.

Second, the last time this came up the union tried to negotiate with management to reduce open flying an prevent a furlough. Management saw this as a means of demanding even more concessions from the union. In fact, according to my source everytime the unions sat down to talk with management about the issue a new demand for additional concessions was presented. If this attitude on managements part remains, I for one am not interested in forgoing open time to prevent furloughs.

 

[GoABX]

Hartmann, the cases you cite involved unions that were in status quo and barred from self-help. Our own union attorneys admit we screwed up last time because we had a small window to do something and it was frittered away and the opportunity was gone once negotiations were formally opened. You also also fail to mention the example of UPS, where the union membership quickly acted, solved the problem and no action was necessary.

The fact is the top seniority list is so used to the overtime that their personal 'needs' outweigh the good of the group. The fact is we have some selfish wh0res that would suck the teet to the point if there were only 2 guys left on the seniority list the #1 pilot would bid 16 days of OPF, even if it furloughed number #2 and #1 lost his job because he had no one to fly with. (I want all mine and all of yours...till the last day.)

 

[Bitter]

Hartmann, the cases you cite involved unions that were in status quo and barred from self-help. Our own union attorneys admit we screwed up last time because we had a small window to do something and it was frittered away and the opportunity was gone once negotiations were formally opened. You also also fail to mention the example of UPS, where the union membership quickly acted, solved the problem and no action was necessary.

The fact is the top seniority list is so used to the overtime that their personal 'needs' outweigh the good of the group. The fact is we have some selfish wh0res that would suck the teet to the point if there were only 2 guys left on the seniority list the #1 pilot would bid 16 days of OPF, even if it furloughed number #2 and #1 lost his job because he had no one to fly with. (I want all mine and all of yours...till the last day.)

Sad, but oh so true.

If Abx furloughs, I for one expect zero resolution through the stoppage of open time.

It would be business as usual!

I do not think we have long to wait to test this theory.

I hope I am wrong.....

 

[DC-9er]

Sad, but oh so true.

If Abx furloughs, I for one expect zero resolution through the stoppage of open time.

It would be business as usual!

I do not think we have long to wait to test this theory.

I hope I am wrong.....

you should change your sn to Bitter-at-the-Bottom

 

[DC-9er]

and there's no furloughs coming, silly

 

[Bitter]

you should change your sn to Bitter-at-the-Bottom

Well Bitter refers to my favorite type of beer.........So should it be beer-at-the-bottom?

As far as no furloughs........why do you think that?

 

[LarryinTN]

The fact is the top seniority list is so used to the overtime...

One of the biggest offenders retired just last week and more are leaving soon.

 

[UPSer]

One of the biggest offenders retired just last week and more are leaving soon.

LOL!!!! You are right. Good to see George Wilson go! OBTW, what happened last Friday? How can a DC-9 be in the CATII window at 100ft and end up off the left side of 22R in the mud? Heard they had their 5B1 meeting and are waiting on a decision on that and from the Feds.

 

[DC-9er]

As far as no furloughs........why do you think that?

where have you been? The 767 training is gearing up big time. There's more airplanes coming, you know. And the ONLY place I hear about parking DC9s is right here on this board.

 

[DC-9er]

One of the biggest offenders retired just last week and more are leaving soon.

I'm not retiring anytime soon.

 

[DC-9er]

OBTW, what happened last Friday? How can a DC-9 be in the CATII window at 100ft and end up off the left side of 22R in the mud? Heard they had their 5B1 meeting and are waiting on a decision on that and from the Feds.

We'll just wait for you to fill in the details, moron.

 

[erichartmann]

Hartmann, the cases you cite involved unions that were in status quo and barred from self-help. Our own union attorneys admit we screwed up last time because we had a small window to do something and it was frittered away and the opportunity was gone once negotiations were formally opened. You also also fail to mention the example of UPS, where the union membership quickly acted, solved the problem and no action was necessary.

The fact is the top seniority list is so used to the overtime that their personal 'needs' outweigh the good of the group. The fact is we have some selfish wh0res that would suck the teet to the point if there were only 2 guys left on the seniority list the #1 pilot would bid 16 days of OPF, even if it furloughed number #2 and #1 lost his job because he had no one to fly with. (I want all mine and all of yours...till the last day.)

Unions subject to the RLA are prohibited from engaging in self help outside the narrow structured confines of the RLA. Essentially, unless you have been released from negotiations and the cooling off period has expired you cannot engage in self help. Being in "status quo" (a term not mentioned in the Act) only makes it easier for the company to get the necessay court orders. Any time the company can prove through historical records that a concerted action on the part of the group is taking place the union is subject to being hauled into court. Incidently, one of the cases I cited involved ABX Air and Local 1224. We were not in negotiations at the time.

The senior pilots don't want all theirs and all yours. They want what their seniorty entitles them to. You forget that all those senior pukes were once junior. I sat reserve BU (before union) when reserve was on call 24/7. You maybe got weekends off if you weren't sent somewhere. Sometimes you got sent out for 3+ weeks straight. The senior folks you so belittle stood up, said no more, and voted the union in. 2nd year pay in any seat is more than what Captains used to make, and you get more days off, reserve or not. What you want is what I earned and what I'm entitled to, and you're unwilling to wait your turn. Grow up or go play in traffic.

 

[Sporto]

Want some Cheese with that.

The senior pilots don't want all theirs and all yours. They want what their seniorty entitles them to. You forget that all those senior pukes were once junior. I sat reserve BU (before union) when reserve was on call 24/7. You maybe got weekends off if you weren't sent somewhere. Sometimes you got sent out for 3+ weeks straight. The senior folks you so belittle stood up, said no more, and voted the union in. 2nd year pay in any seat is more than what Captains used to make, and you get more days off, reserve or not. What you want is what I earned and what I'm entitled to, and you're unwilling to wait your turn. Grow up or go play in traffic.

You deserve everything that your seniority allows. No question. Knock yourself out with all the open time you can stand. Doesn't bother me a bit. I am willing to wait my turn.

But if there is a furlough, that changes everything. Anyone who bids open time individually or collectively, in my opinion is a POS.

Does your Seniority entitle you to look the other way when guys hit the street?