How is Life at Gojets?

[Evansaero]

HOW THEN do GJ pilot have better pay and a better contract than TSA???? Signed by the same management.

You really have no clue do you.

Sure looks like the same contract we have. oh thats right you have taxi pay

We signed our contract in 2000. GJ signed theirs 7 years later

7 YEARS...

 

[CX880]

You really have no clue do you.

Sure looks like the same contract we have. oh thats right you have taxi pay

We signed our contract in 2000. GJ signed theirs 7 years later

7 YEARS...

REad their contract again I'm sure you'll find differences, like a commuter clause. GJ's only been around since Oct 05.

 

[rtmcfi]

"GoJet" is not a problem, moron.

Yes it is, moron

GoJet will be a place for jobs for furloughed TSA pilots and MANY furloughed mainline pilots.

Only for pilots that lack self-respect and dignity. And hopefully not very many at all.

 

[CX880]

S. You are BLAMING the TSA pilots for the GoJet problem.

No one likes to blame the pilots, most of us just show up do our jobs and go back home. Another words we have a life outside of TSA/GJ and flying.... hopefully... We have to live with it but a yes vote would have made things a lot better for everyone. I doubt TSA would have been in the shape it is now. They would have gotten something as far as contractual wise, they gave something better to GJs didn't they?

 

[~~~^~~~]

When does the RAT come out on the 767 and what does it give you?

What is special about the center hydraulic demand pump? What can drive it? When would you isolate it? What is the weight hit (penalty) if it's inop?

Of the left, center, and right hydraulic systems, which one has the highest demand (767 only, since we know it's different on the 757)?

RAT drops with the failure of both engines, or if manually deployed. It provides hydraulic pressure down to 130 KIAS. It can be used to power not only hydraulic systems, but also a hydraulic driven generator installed on the ER and ETOPS aircraft. The HDG is activated when AC1 and AC2 busses are not powered.

The center demand pump uses bleed air to power center system hydraulics during periods of high demand. On the 767 the big items are on the center system.

The Center Isolation Switch is maintained open, guarded with break away wire. It is a QRH item to isolate the center pneumatic duct from the cross over manifold. If a bleed leak can not be isolated in the center duct, the airplane is designed for 6 hours of operation before structural damage occurs. Because of sensor position, most of the crossover duct is displayed as a left duct leak message.

I've got no idea what the penalty is, we'd be in the MDM to double check what dispatch comes up with. The gear and flap retration would be significantly slower without the demand pump, so I'm guessing that the aircraft would be climb limited in the second stage.

You ask good questions. Missed two out of approximately 140 questions on the systems test for my type rating. I like this stuff.

What do I win? How about the name of your buddy so we can ensure he is provided with accurate information.

 

[CX880]

RAT drops with the failure of both engines, or if manually deployed. It provides hydraulic pressure down to 130 KIAS. It can be used to power not only hydraulic systems, but also a hydraulic driven generator installed on the ER and ETOPS aircraft. The HDG is activated when AC1 and AC2 busses are not powered.

The center demand pump uses bleed air to power center system hydraulics during periods of high demand. On the 767 the big items are on the center system.

The Center Isolation Switch is maintained open, guarded with break away wire. It is a QRH item to isolate the center pneumatic duct from the cross over manifold. If a bleed leak can not be isolated in the center duct, the airplane is designed for 6 hours of operation before structural damage occurs. Because of sensor position, most of the crossover duct is displayed as a left duct leak message.

I've got no idea what the penalty is, we'd be in the MDM to double check what dispatch comes up with. The gear and flap retration would be significantly slower without the demand pump, so I'm guessing that the aircraft would be climb limited in the second stage.

You ask good questions. Missed two out of approximately 140 questions on the systems test. I actually like this stuff.

What do I win?

How has GJ affected your 767 flying?

 

[~~~^~~~]

How has GJ affected your 767 flying?

It hasn't and I'd prefer to keep it that way.

What's it matter? Mugabe's thugs haven't effected me either, but evil is recognizable from a distance.

Anyone who's moral compass swings in sympathy to organized labor can easily make the distinction. Most of the majors are ALPA carriers.

I'm certainly not beating my chest and saying GoJets pilots will not get on a jumpseat, or get hired. I think DAL did hire a GoJets pilot. It is my opinion that if there is any justice in this World that their actions will prevent their participation in careers outside of GoJets, strike breaking, and cleaning clogs in septic systems underneath retirement centers.

 

[CX880]

It hasn't and I'd prefer to keep it that way.

And don't worry about it, it never will.

It is my opinion that if there is any justice in this World that their actions will prevent their participation in careers outside of GoJets, strike breaking, and cleaning clogs in septic systems underneath retirement centers.

What actions? Most of the GJ pilot group are street guys no different than guys going to any other regional. Oh, if you're talking about the original few who chose to resign from TSA and go to GJ, it was their right to do so, it's not as if they crossed any picket line is it?

----------

 

[~~~^~~~]

I detest those who throw the scab word around when it does not apply. Yet, GoJets is as close as that distinction can be made without no substantial difference.

It is ridiculous to carry on this dialog. A GoJet pilot who lacked the moral discretion to say no, certainly can be expected to be a moral relativist and apologist. In your case, I think you intend to advocate this sort of thing as "playing your cards" well. If that wasn't you, you have my apologies.

This is a debate about the logical concept of judgement. It is my opinion that people who made similar decisions who subsequently found employment at Continental and AirTran were negative influences who harmed their employers and co-workers.

I consider two Eastern scabs friends. Both men deeply regret their actions and both have humbly served as volunteers within ALPA. I think they are motivated by a desire to somehow undo the harm they did to the profession.

As you grow up and see this profession from a 20, 30, or 40 year perspective your views may change. These guys see things much differently now than they once did and have come to regret their decions to try & take the short cut at the expense of other pilots.

Verbal taunts, jumpseat denials and web board threats are not what changed their mind. Nope, they just learned how this business works and gained an understanding.

That's why I'm refraining from the knee-jerk reactions. If you have the mental horsepower to get though a recurrent check, I've got faith you'll figure this out for yourself.

 

[CX880]

Gojet was created to get around the AA scope of no 50+ seats for AA connection. How does that harm you as a major airline pilot? It doesn't. I think you're looking at the whole GJ/TSA deal as "scabs" vs pilots with morals. Which in no way shape or form is. I agree with you in principle though. But to equate Eastern scabs with GJ is wrong. Nobody at TSA was on a strike.

In reality there were only a few TSA pilot who decided to fly for GJ(as it was their right, no striking) Most, as in all most all of the GJ pilot group are street guys who really didn't care much about the whole deal, or even had no idea and why should they? Are you not going to fly for Freedom Air(mesa) because of what happened years ago? At the risk of sounding like a broken record, the fact is GJ is union and is equal or better than other regionals. As far as I'm concerned I don't think anybody that goes there is lowering the bar. A handful of pilots in the Midwest are not the problem, they simply adapted to the rest of the regional industry.

 

[Options_SLAVE]

RAT drops with the failure of both engines, or if manually deployed. It provides hydraulic pressure down to 130 KIAS. It can be used to power not only hydraulic systems, but also a hydraulic driven generator installed on the ER and ETOPS aircraft. The HDG is activated when AC1 and AC2 busses are not powered.

The center demand pump uses bleed air to power center system hydraulics during periods of high demand. On the 767 the big items are on the center system.

The Center Isolation Switch is maintained open, guarded with break away wire. It is a QRH item to isolate the center pneumatic duct from the cross over manifold. If a bleed leak can not be isolated in the center duct, the airplane is designed for 6 hours of operation before structural damage occurs. Because of sensor position, most of the crossover duct is displayed as a left duct leak message.

I've got no idea what the penalty is, we'd be in the MDM to double check what dispatch comes up with. The gear and flap retration would be significantly slower without the demand pump, so I'm guessing that the aircraft would be climb limited in the second stage.

You ask good questions. Missed two out of approximately 140 questions on the systems test for my type rating. I like this stuff.

What do I win? How about the name of your buddy so we can ensure he is provided with accurate information.

Correct answers. The RAT is to supply hydraulic power to the flight controls. The weight penalty is 45,000 lbs. ;-)

 

[Options_SLAVE]

I detest those who throw the scab word around when it does not apply. Yet, GoJets is as close as that distinction can be made without no substantial difference.

Absolutely ridiculous. There IS a substantial difference, since GoJet is not an alter-ego airline, is not in violation in any way, shape, or form of the TSA pilots' contract. TSAH owning GoJet is no different than when NWA owned Continental. The fact that the TSA pilots fought and lost getting GoJet on their seniority list not only with the NMB but with the U.S. Courts proves it. They are SEPARATE airlines.

It is ridiculous to carry on this dialog. A GoJet pilot who lacked the moral discretion to say no, certainly can be expected to be a moral relativist and apologist.

Apologist for what? Apologizing for the TSA pilots' failed attempt at petitioning or fighting in court for a single list? The reason they did not win is because GoJet is NOT formed to get around a pilot union, but to get around AA's scope against TSAH for flying larger than 50-seat jets for ANY carrier. They CAN'T do it with Trans States Airlines. GoJet has NOTHING to do with the TSA pilots' contract. Proved in court. Proved by the decision of the NMB.

This is a debate about the logical concept of judgement. It is my opinion that people who made similar decisions who subsequently found employment at Continental and AirTran were negative influences who harmed their employers and co-workers.

Crossing a picket line is about as far from apples and oranges as one could go.

I consider two Eastern scabs friends. Both men deeply regret their actions and both have humbly served as volunteers within ALPA. I think they are motivated by a desire to somehow undo the harm they did to the profession.

As they should. They crossed a picket line and flew struck work.

As you grow up and see this profession from a 20, 30, or 40 year perspective your views may change. These guys see things much differently now than they once did and have come to regret their decions to try & take the short cut at the expense of other pilots.

As will yours.

Verbal taunts, jumpseat denials and web board threats are not what changed their mind. Nope, they just learned how this business works and gained an understanding.

As will you.

That's why I'm refraining from the knee-jerk reactions. If you have the mental horsepower to get though a recurrent check, I've got faith you'll figure this out for yourself.

As I do with you - at least you speak with a little maturity, although I'd still call it knee-jerk.

 

[rtmcfi]

Options- Either you don't get it, and probably never will, or you are attempting to justify your morally bankrupt decision to aid and abet the furlough of TSA pilots. It would be just if Flight Options were to hire a bunch of TSA folks about now.

CX880 - You are obviously a plant of some sort (Harrison & Ford maybe??) to attempt to justify lowering the QOL and pay scale of all pilots. No one, and I do mean NO ONE is dumb enough to work for Mesa, TSA, Hojets, and then mourn the loss of Skybus, as that was where they really wanted to work. It really is not possible for anyone to have that poor of judgement. Perhaps it is some S&M thing you have going on?

 

[~~~^~~~]

Options Slave:

You are correct that the NMB ruled that GoJet was not an alter-ego. In reaching their determination the NMB cited that GoJets was created in response to American Airlines' restrictive scope.

In doing so, the NMB states that creation of an alter ego is a legitimate response to union scope clauses. Even in the case where management, financing and operational control are the EXACT SAME.

Stop for a second and realize what that means.

Do they have scope at GoJets? What does that scope mean? What will it mean when a pilot has 8 to 10 years of longevity and a schedule in the left seat making $80K plus a year?

What will you think if TSA management creates another alter ego, kicks GoJet pilots to the curb and hires a JetU grad for $15,000 a year as replacements?

What then? Is this a hypothetical question? It has happened once and as you point out, the precedent has been made. All you need is another corporate entity to avoid mutually agreed restrictive scope.

It did not effect me, yet. But I'm not one of those guys who watches a neighbor's house burn down without realizing that the entire neighborhood has now diminished in value due to the loss.

You raise a house to a higher foundation by jacking it in multiple locations. Our profession, our wages and working conditions, are built by each side lifting their corner. The loss to the TSA pilots is a loss to others in the profession - particularly since it comes with scope busting precedent.

Admittedly ALPA and the APA started this snowball when the majors started selling out their scope. Scope should have never been mortgaged. Scope is central to the legitimacy of unionism, it is the very foundation of collective bargaining. Scope is the only glue that holds the company to its contract with the pilots.

 

[Evansaero]

In an effort to recruit experienced Pilots, GoJet offered an incentive package for Pilots working at other carriers. Specifically, GoJet offered any Pilot working for any Part 121 carrier, including TSA, TransMeridian Airlines, Chicago Express Airlines, American Eagle, and Corporate Air, up to five years’ longevity credit for pay rates and vacation accrual if they came to work for GoJet.

 

[Freight Dog]

You and Freight Dog attitudes exemplify all that is wrong in the World.

I see TSA pilots who took an honorable stand against alter ego replacements, you see a quick way to leverage your lack of moral restraint.

What attitude is that, Chief?

Yes, TSA pilots took an honorable stand against alter ego. As an ALPA member, I supported them, and looked upon initial GoJet cadre with utter disdain because their true intent was to bypass seniority.

When ALPA lost its case, and NMB dismissed the single carrier petition, now what? Now you're not arguing facts, now you're arguing emotion.

Not happy with the decision, why not appeal it? Hulas is now taking away United Express flying from TSA and giving it to GoJet? Perhaps now might be the time for the fine ALPA folks at TSA and Herndon to revisit the issue, issue a recruitment ban against GoJet, file lawsuits, petitions, etc.

There are thousands of furloughed ALPA pilots out there. Aside from us whose airlines were shut down, there's almost a thousand UAL pilots alone who will hit the street soon, and that's just UAL and we're talking about their flying...

Should they not go to GoJet considering that judge ruled against ALPA and that NMB threw out the single carrier status? Is there a strike against TSA?

You know, a huge majority of us who were either furloughed or terminated due to shutdowns, have ethics and morals. If there is an on-going legal case against GoJet; if there is an ALPA-imposed recruitment ban against GoJet; if there is a strike at TSA and GoJet is flying struck work; you can rest assured that the huge majority of us would look elsewhere and if necessary find non-flying jobs than take employment with a carrier that has sanctions imposed upon it by ALPA and current legal proceedings against it.

However, ALPA swept it under the rug. They are collecting 1.95% from every non-probationary TSA pilot. If this is that big of an issue for them, then TSA pilots need to do something about it. If they do something about it, they will enjoy support from the overwhelming majority of other pilot groups, and yes, even those who are out on the street, and yes, I believe most "new" GoJet pilots.

Instead, all I see are emotional outbursts, whining, empty threats, childish posts. Until another legal action takes place - appeals, sanctions against recruitment, NMB petition for single carrier; you won't be able to stop people from applying and taking jobs at GoJet with emotional temper tantrums. Instead, legal action, official union actions will do the trick. You're paying ALPA dues, make them work for you!

Another thing, I've tried to tell people here to engage current GoJet pilots and present a joint front. I think the majority of people at GoJet are now getting to be furloughees, and not the same people who originally tried to steal seniority. Now is the time to build solidarity and reach to those current GoJet pilots because they can truly help present a unified pilot front.

Instead, you have children throwing temper tantrums about jumpseat wars, name-calling, etc. Who in their right mind would even bother helping some kid who's throwing a temper tantrum? That's when you ignore the kid and let them scream, whine, piss and moan until they calm down. When they're calm, that's when you do the right thing. Same goes here... drop the temper tantrum, and start thinking rationally.

I guess I exemplify everything that's wrong in this world.

Please feel free to resume emotional and entertaining temper tantrums and empty threats.

 

[Citrus531]

In an effort to recruit experienced Pilots, GoJet offered an incentive package for Pilots working at other carriers. Specifically, GoJet offered any Pilot working for any Part 121 carrier, including TSA, TransMeridian Airlines, Chicago Express Airlines, American Eagle, and Corporate Air, up to five years’ longevity credit for pay rates and vacation accrual if they came to work for GoJet.

After being acquired by ATA in 1999, I thought Chicago Express shut down following the ATA bankruptcy filing in early 2005 before Go-jets took off? As well as TransMeridian? Since they shut down in Sept of 2005.

 

[masedogg19]

I detest those who throw the scab word around when it does not apply. Yet, GoJets is as close as that distinction can be made without no substantial difference.

Would you be so kind as to explain to Captain Turtle what the difference is? He's having problems.....

 

[Turtlesfly]

Would you be so kind as to explain to Captain Turtle what the difference is? He's having problems.....

From dictionary.com, definition number 4:

"a worker who refuses to join a labor union or to participate in a union strike, who takes a striking worker's place on the job, or the like. "

I have an idea. Check your facts before accusing. You don't even fly for an airline, what the ******************** do you care what happens to a TSA pilot?

 

[Turtlesfly]

Whatever you say, "Cap'n". Can you sense my concern about your (4,000 hr Cap'n) opinion?

Still waitin' for you to actually contribute anything but a flame to any conversation. Every word you write solidifies the statement that SEVERAL pilots have made about the maturity of your posts, "Cap'n". Do you still play with He-man figures and model airplanes?

Keep it up, Cap'n know-it-all!

you have 10,000 hours. I am so impressed.

I haven't addressed any facts? ARE YOU UNABLE TO READ? Have you not been reading my posts? How about the simple fact that TSA is furloughing and GJ is hiring. Let's start with that fact which I mentioned earlier, but you apparently think is flame . Explain to me how you, as a "union leader," approve of that?