How Did the 9-11 Hijackers Navigate?

[User546]

Another thread on here reminded me of a discussion I was having with a co-pilot the other day while watching a History Channel documentary on Flight 11 that was the first airline to crash into the World Trade Center.

The show indicated that almost immediately after gaining control of the airplane, they turned off the trandsponder, and autopilot, and began hand flying the airplane.

My question is this: Once the hijackers took control of the airplane, how did they navigate the plane from somewhere outside of Boston to two "tiny" buildings in NYC? Do you think the hijackers would've been savvy with the FMS, or did they use some other form of navigatoin?

Has anyone ever heard of an explanation how this was possibly accomplished?

 

[UnAnswerd]

I never thought of that. I too would like to know.

By the way, I never knew that there was actually a video of the FIRST plane hitting the WTC. There seems to be a glitch with video, but it will work if you click on the link, and then right-click and save target as:

http://www.airdisaster.com/download/wtc.shtml

I cannot imagine standing somewhere and watching something like this.

 

[FN FAL]

Navigate? MK1 MOD-0 eyeball? The entire country was severe clear that day...in fact, the one group had a hard time finding the White House, so they went to the biggest most prominant landmark they could find, the Pentagon (if I'm not mistaken?).

 

[Kream926]

i watched this history channel thing about this and they said that they navigated by following the river to NY. apparently is was severely clear that day and NYC can be seen from 50 or so miles away

 

[User546]

For FN_FAL and Kream.... were they that close to NYC when they took over the airplane that they could just "looked out the window" and seen the city, or the Hudson River?

I've never lived up in the North-East, so I'm not too familiar with the actual geography of the Hudson, but could they have done that?

I know that towards the end they were using the Hudson, but surely they hadn't done that the whole way to NYC???

 

[DenverDude2002]

Is there a chance they we're still using VOR/DME maybe? still i wonder how many times in the sim they practiced that maneuver, **** terrorists anyways hope they burn in hell for what they did

 

[JimNtexas]

I bet they'd practiced on MS Flight sim a hundred times before the real event. Probably they had a handheld gps along also.

 

[redd]

Here's an interesting article about Flight 11.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/redux.html

 

[DenverDude2002]

Yah but FS sucks as far as using VFR landmarks to actualy navigate

 

[FearlessFreep]

They were successful. I doesn't matter how they did it. This discussion is a bit morbid.

Instead of wondering how they were able to navigate we should be working on putting a stop to all this terrorism. I have a few good ideas. Too bad I am not able to post them here.

 

[FN FAL]

They were successful. I doesn't matter how they did it. This discussion is a bit morbid.

Instead of wondering how they were able to navigate we should be working on putting a stop to all this terrorism. I have a few good ideas. Too bad I am not able to post them here.

A vor, a gps, a fms...really? You guys would give them that much credit? How hard could it be? A caveman could do it! Push forward, houses get bigger. Pull back, houses get smaller.

I bet you guys think the terroists used calls, profiles and a checklist?

I've seen IFR students bust their ride because they played with their trimble handheld and these terrorist guys weren't no IFR students.

 

[User546]

They were successful. I doesn't matter how they did it. This discussion is a bit morbid.

Instead of wondering how they were able to navigate we should be working on putting a stop to all this terrorism. I have a few good ideas. Too bad I am not able to post them here.

Well I think the question is well within good taste. I'm not interested in the morbid details of what happened, I'm just interested about how 5 guys could take over an airplane at Flight Level, and then navigate it to its intended target.

Obviously they did and were successful, but this is one aspect of the WTC attacks that I've never read about or heard discussed.

 

[FN FAL]

Well I think the question is well within good taste. I'm not interested in the morbid details of what happened, I'm just interested about how 5 guys could take over an airplane at Flight Level, and then navigate it to its intended target.

Obviously they did and were successful, but this is one aspect of the WTC attacks that I've never read about or heard discussed.

Which terrorists took over a plane at flight levels and then navigated it?

 

[User546]

A vor, a gps, a fms...really? You guys would give them that much credit? How hard could it be, a cave man could do it. Push forward, houses get bigger. Pull back, houses get smaller.

It's not about how could they fly the 757, you're right, a cave man could probably do it - especially since landing wasn't an issue. From the sounds of that documentary they about lost control of the airplane on more then one occasion as well.

BUT, I am almost 100% confident, that when they busted in the cockpit, and took over control of the airplane, they weren't within eye sight of NYC... and was able to just point the nose towards it and go. There had to have been some sort of navigation to get within VFR view of the area.

 

[wmuflyguy]

Here's an interesting article about Flight 11.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/redux.htm

At the very least, the pilot or co-pilot should¹ve been able to send the emergency alert code, activated from no less than four places in the cockpit of a Boeing 767, including the steering yoke.

So is this alert code thing, soemthing specific to the 767...me thinks article is full of crap

 

[redd]

Fearless,

What's morbid about it, it's a simple quirry as to how it happened by someone who doesn't fly in that area.

Your response is a bit on the emotional side, I don't see as to why you'd want to censure other pilots about something that could potentially happen again, and in their own industry?

Who cares if it's morbid, there is a whole agency called the NTSB that dedicates itself to disecting every accident this way, it's normal for pilots to glob onto every accident report in all of their morbid detail.

Wm,

I only chose that article becasue it had some info regarding the flight position after the takeover, the rest probably is bunk.

 

[FN FAL]

It's not about how could they fly the 757, you're right, a cave man could probably do it - especially since landing wasn't an issue. From the sounds of that documentary they about lost control of the airplane on more then one occasion as well.

BUT, I am almost 100% confident, that when they busted in the cockpit, and took over control of the airplane, they weren't within eye sight of NYC... and was able to just point the nose towards it and go. There had to have been some sort of navigation to get within VFR view of the area.

Well, let's sort this out logically.

There were two planes that the WTC...where did they come from?

There was one plane that hit the Pentagon...where did it come from?

Then there was that one plane that kind of meandered around a bit, then it wound up in a field in PA...where did it come from?

 

[User546]

Well, let's sort this out logically.

There were two planes that the WTC...where did they come from?

There was one plane that hit the Pentagon...where did it come from?

Then there was that one plane that kind of meandered around a bit, then it wound up in a field in PA...where did it come from?

From here:
http://www.kiat.net/terror/images/hijackpaths.gif

 

[Immelman]

handheld GPS.. direct to target.. disconnect autopilot (on the yoke usually, right?), then all you have to work are throttles, stick, rudder, and trim.....seriously, given their "starting point" of established cruise flight, is there anything more to it whether its a C172 or B747?

 

[MVSW]

I would put my money on a handheld gps.

 

[FN FAL]

From here:
http://www.kiat.net/terror/images/hijackpaths.gif

Thanks...looking at it now.

 

[FL000]

By the way, I never knew that there was actually a video of the FIRST plane hitting the WTC.

That was the only recorded video of the hit, and it was taken by French filmakers Jules and Gedeon Naudet, who were filming a documentary on a new firefighter recruit. Of course, the movie takes a whole new twist after the attack, and it is one of the most riveting pieces of history ever filmed. It is called simply 9/11. After the first hit, they film from inside the North Tower with exclusive access to the firefighters involved until the bitter end. I own it and watch it every so often from start to finish. It's a must see.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0312318/

I get teary eyed every time I see the inital hits. Never F'ing forget.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/wtc-people-hanging-photo5-5d-right-800h.jpg

 

[FN FAL]

I would put my money on a handheld gps.

Looking at the maps that User 997 provided, you might be on to something.

Did you notice the lines? It almost looks as if someone was play acting at holding a straight line or holding a "course". Also, look at the one where they go south, but then hang a big turn back to New York. How could they do that? Hand held GPS would be easy...trying to figure out the PND and PFD would be hard...especially tuning them in and getting them to send you where you wanted to go?

 

[User546]

Thats a good observation on the map.

Using a handheld wouldn't be that hard either, cause all you'd have to do is physically visit the site you wanted to hit, and create a custom waypoint. Then whenever your ready, go direct to that waypoint.

The only one that doesn't jive completely with that one is the Flight 175 one that took the sharp turn back towards NYX. Perhaps though well before they made that turn they could've had a visual on the building, and was then using the Hudson to line up on it.

 

[FN FAL]

Thats a good observation on the map.

Using a handheld wouldn't be that hard either, cause all you'd have to do is physically visit the site you wanted to hit, and create a custom waypoint. Then whenever your ready, go direct to that waypoint.

The only one that doesn't jive completely with that one is the Flight 175 one that took the sharp turn back towards NYX. Perhaps though well before they made that turn they could've had a visual on the building, and was then using the Hudson to line up on it.

With GPS units going for way less than 100 bucks at sporting goods stores, I guess I wouldn't put it past them.

There will be a lot of things that we'll never know about these flights.

 

[JimNtexas]

I've seen IFR students bust their ride because they played with their trimble handheld

Seeing as Trimble never made a handheld, and hasn't made a GA GPS for years, I take it you're not exactly up on the latest technology.

Anyway, the hijackers were all trained pilots, they could find NYC on a clear day.

 

[FN FAL]

Seeing as Trimble never made a handheld, and hasn't made a GA GPS for years, I take it you're not exactly up on the latest technology.

Anyway, the hijackers were all trained pilots, they could find NYC on a clear day.

Wrong...Trimble made a handheld called the Magellan.

From Trimble's own site: http://www.trimble.com/about_firsts.html

1994
Introduces first GPS receiver integrated on PC card
Introduces first GPS receiver to track oil spills
Introduces first GPS handheld for land navigation
Introduces first GPS receiver with built-in differential GPS beacon receiver
Introduces first true on-the-fly (OTF) initialization real-time GPS receiver with centimeter-level accuracy
Introduces world's first Window's-based earthwork estimating software
Introduces first military GPS receiver integrated with LORAN C
Introduces world's first miniature underwater military GPS receiver

 

[FN FAL]

Seeing as Trimble never made a handheld, and hasn't made a GA GPS for years, I take it you're not exactly up on the latest technology.

Anyway, the hijackers were all trained pilots, they could find NYC on a clear day.

As for being up on the latest technology...I'm 135 certified for GPS approaches using the KLN-89B. It might not be hollywood, but it gets the job done.

 

[Nova]

I think you are all making it much more complicated than it is. FMS Direct DCA, LGA or EWR and follow the Flight Director.

 

[siucavflight]

Havent you guys ever seen the pic of Mohammed Atta standing outside the front of the trade towers three days before 9-11? The pic was taken from an ATM. Guess what he was holding? A handheld GPS, wonder what he was plugging in?