How can I drink the Brown Kool-aid if I cant hold my food down

[johnsonrod]

If I were a AirTran pilot I wouldn't vote for it - certainly not if I were an FO. How long is that upgrade from the very bottom???? 25 years? Let the arbitrator help you out...

Stupid is as stupid does....

 

[dicko]

all I ask is if it is my leg try and let me fly it...that may be hard if you are ADHD/type A.

Jack,

When I fly with you, I'm gonna give you the full treatment;

1. The flap handle hand hover,

2. The hand on the gear lever , and my specialty

3. The hands 1 inch from the yoke when you're hand flying.

4. Making strange noises when I think it's time to do things.

It's not because I don't trust you .. It's because I think its' funny

 

[On Your Six]

Wow oys, you actually said something I agree with. This thing is a turd and I hope GK flushes it down the toilet!

Wall Street disagrees with you. The only turd is the SWAPA SLI deal, and we all know it.



OYS

 

[GuppyWN]

Jack,

When I fly with you, I'm gonna give you the full treatment;

1. The flap handle hand hover,

2. The hand on the gear lever , and my specialty

3. The hands 1 inch from the yoke when you're hand flying.

4. Making strange noises when I think it's time to do things.

It's not because I don't trust you .. It's because I think its' funny

I know you! You're gonna fit right in! In Phoenix!

Gup

 

[GuppyWN]

If I were a AirTran pilot I wouldn't vote for it - certainly not if I were an FO. How long is that upgrade from the very bottom???? 25 years? Let the arbitrator help you out...

Stupid is as stupid does....

The last 649 Airtran FO's are pretty junior. The "top" bottom is late 2007? Our last class before the stall was 8/2008. The best they can do is break even. ANY protected captain is a dummy for voting NO. His life is untouched for 9 years. The Arby's drive-thru will make his seat available to the seniority list from day one but will most likely lock him out of the other 7 WN domiciles since his career expectation was to be an ATL pilot.

Gup

 

[Lear70]

The last 649 Airtran FO's are pretty junior. The "top" bottom is late 2007? Our last class before the stall was 8/2008. The best they can do is break even.

Nope. I'm #607 out of that 649, just missed it. I'm an April 06 hire.

If you put me Date of Hire in your stack, the next junior guy to me is JP @ # 4502. That's 1,378 of your pre-9/27 pilots I'd be senior to who are now senior to ME on the list with the staple. That's 1,378 of your pilots who will upgrade ahead of me who I'll be flying with and I'm senior to them by Date of Hire. The same thing your F/O's are complaining about now. Incidentally, that's about 6 years of retirement attrition to "catch up" from where Date of Hire would place me.

It's not even CLOSE to break-even.

ANY protected captain is a dummy for voting NO. His life is untouched for 9 years. The Arby's drive-thru will make his seat available to the seniority list from day one but will most likely lock him out of the other 7 WN domiciles since his career expectation was to be an ATL pilot.

Gup

Most arbitration solutions protect CA seats for several years. The Frontier guys got protected for 7. That's almost as long as the 9 year fence in the AIP.

Arbitration isn't perfect, there's a lot of risks for certain, but it's hard to ignore what other recent arbitrations have done in terms of what we could reasonably expect to get. THAT'S what's got everyone wondering why we settled so low in terms of seniority.

 

[PapaWoody]

Hey Papa,

You've only got 84% of our entire company junior to you. Not enough for you as a Junior CA ?

Perhaps some Grey Puopon will make it taste better

D, with all due respect, I didn't post to complain about my seniority number on the combined list, I was just rebutting the assertion by one of your guys that a 2004 hire had 1400-1500 guys junior to him after this, and was implying that his other assertions were just as false.

Respectfully,
PapaWoody

 

[Just thinking]

Our last class before the stall was 8/2008. ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

And they just jumped 3.5 years in seniority. Windfall???? AVALANCHE!

 

[madjack]

Jack,

When I fly with you, I'm gonna give you the full treatment;

1. The flap handle hand hover,

2. The hand on the gear lever , and my specialty

3. The hands 1 inch from the yoke when you're hand flying.

4. Making strange noises when I think it's time to do things.

It's not because I don't trust you .. It's because I think its' funny


Dicko, do whatever you want, I will be getting a 1.25 tranny override...you just better call for the checklist and give responses ver batim or we may never get out of the gate...there are passive/aggressive options for FOs...

 

[Ty Webb]

You guys are killin' me.

If this flight ever takes place, I want to sit on the jumpseat.

If you guys promise to play nice, I'll tell you about the time some crusty ol' sumbitch pushed back off the gate while I was taking a leak in the forward lav.

:laugh:

 

[dicko]

Jack,

When I fly with you, I'm gonna give you the full treatment;

1. The flap handle hand hover,

2. The hand on the gear lever , and my specialty

3. The hands 1 inch from the yoke when you're hand flying.

4. Making strange noises when I think it's time to do things.

It's not because I don't trust you .. It's because I think its' funny


Dicko, do whatever you want, I will be getting a 1.25 tranny override...you just better call for the checklist and give responses ver batim or we may never get out of the gate...there are passive/aggressive options for FOs...

Hey Jack,

The big smiley face thingy means I was joking.

 

[madjack]

Dicko,

Sorry, I was too (I don't use those little facey things they scare me)...looking forward to flying with you (I am in LAS, great base)...

MJ

 

[dicko]

Dicko,

Sorry, I was too (I don't use those little facey things they scare me)...looking forward to flying with you (I am in LAS, great base)...

MJ

No worries. Clowns scare me. The smiley face thingies take a little piece of your manhood every time you use them. But they do sometimes prevent misunderstandings.

See you in LAS.

 

[canyonblue]

Canyon,
I noticed your avatar photo was taken from the right seat of a 737. I look forward to continuing this conversation when you fly as my FO, however something tells me you only run your mouth when sitting safely at your computer. pussie.

Well Jacko, my comment was to the moron who thinks that a 12% at AAI equals 12% at SWA. The two positions are not even close to being comparable. I would gladly take 50% at SWA instead of 12% at AAI, in fact, we have some here that have. And as far as you being my Captain, it will never happen. And by some miracle it did, I would have no problem running my mouth at you sitting three feet away.

 

[canyonblue]

You have 6000 missiles and we have 1800. Just means u can blow it up 3 times more than us. But the fallout can kill everyone.

Actually, 3.333 times more than you. Since we are all on here arguing percentages.

 

[scoreboardII]

No worries. Clowns scare me. The smiley face thingies take a little piece of your manhood every time you use them. But they do sometimes prevent misunderstandings.

See you in LAS.

:laugh::crying::erm::nuts:imp::uzi:

 

[Ty Webb]

:laugh::crying::erm:imp::uzi:

You forgot the best one:

:beer:

Cheers, Big Ears!

 

[scoreboardII]

:beer:I tried, the website said I used to many characters.

 

[SWA/FO]

And they said: "We Will, In Fact, Be Greeted As Liberators' - G. Kelly"

 

[JT12345]

ANY protected captain is a dummy for voting NO. His life is untouched for 9 years.

Oh my friend. You have been in this business too long to be this naive.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Oh that's right. U have been in the Southwest bubble. I forgot.

 

[Flycatcher99]

Everything I gain in this merger is not taken and subtracted from a Southwest guy. Not the pay, not the seat. The gains you are expecting to have, are taken directly from an AirTran pilot: Seniority, job security, quality of life and capt seats... Not fair, not equitable.

Not true. Your airline, by being acquired by mine, is supplanting the growth that I would have seen organically over the next ten years. Thus, your airline is providing SWA with captains that would have been supplied by SWA FOs, if it were not for this acquisition.

Now, that said, I do agree that we are taking some seniority away from you. But with a stiff arm in my face keeping me away from upgrade, a 9% seniority increase does me no good, in all practicality.

So, what this deal does is this: it makes everything pretty much even. You guys lose seniority, but gain a lot of money. A lot of money. And way better benefits. And a way better company to work for. Don't want the money? Rather have seniority? Okay, then at the very least, your captains can choose QOL as FOs over captain slots.

SWA pilots gain a small amount of seniority (we are so big that your relatively small pilot group does not affect us much), and in return, we've lost upgrades that might have happened in the next few years. Do we get a choice on the matter? Not like AAI captains do.

Sounds to me like both sides gained about the same amount that they lost, with the exception that the AAI guys at least get some choice in the matter, and they also got ATL protections.

 

[Flycatcher99]

Jack,

When I fly with you, I'm gonna give you the full treatment;

1. The flap handle hand hover,

2. The hand on the gear lever , and my specialty

3. The hands 1 inch from the yoke when you're hand flying.

4. Making strange noises when I think it's time to do things.

It's not because I don't trust you .. It's because I think its' funny

Hey! Your captains sound just like ours! My captains do all those things. At the same time.

You don't think it's me, do you?:erm:

 

[On Your Six]

Not true. Your airline, by being acquired by mine, is supplanting the growth that I would have seen organically over the next ten years. Thus, your airline is providing SWA with captains that would have been supplied by SWA FOs, if it were not for this acquisition.

Now, that said, I do agree that we are taking some seniority away from you. But with a stiff arm in my face keeping me away from upgrade, a 9% seniority increase does me no good, in all practicality.

So, what this deal does is this: it makes everything pretty much even. You guys lose seniority, but gain a lot of money. A lot of money. And way better benefits. And a way better company to work for. Don't want the money? Rather have seniority? Okay, then at the very least, your captains can choose QOL as FOs over captain slots.

SWA pilots gain a small amount of seniority (we are so big that your relatively small pilot group does not affect us much), and in return, we've lost upgrades that might have happened in the next few years. Do we get a choice on the matter? Not like AAI captains do.

Sounds to me like both sides gained about the same amount that they lost,
with the exception that the AAI guys at least get some choice in the matter, and they also got ATL protections.

There was no way you were going to "organically" grow into the largest airport and city in the South, Atlanta. No gates, no room. Getting LGA and any DCA slots would have been difficult. Where else were you going to expand in the rest of the country? Which airports had enough room for you to organically grow at the rate you are dreaming about? Give me some examples.

Your retirement rate was flat at only 150 or so retirements per year without the AT merger too. Stagnation. And did you guys lose any money in this deal? Did you ask for any raises or stock for the SWA pilots? Why not?




OYS

 

[Flycatcher99]

There was no way you were going to "organically" grow into the largest airport and city in the South, Atlanta. No gates, no room. Getting LGA and any DCA slots would have been difficult. Where else were you going to expand in the rest of the country? Which airports had enough room for you to organically grow at the rate you are dreaming about? Give me some examples.

Your retirement rate was flat at only 150 or so retirements per year without the AT merger too. Stagnation. And did you guys lose any money in this deal? Did you ask for any raises or stock for the SWA pilots? Why not?



OYS

So you think we would not have grown at all in ten years? You're the one who's dreaming.

Over the last couple of years, we have added many new cities, ones which you probably never would have guessed we would enter. (Because many here didn't think we would go to those places either.) Places like LGA, EWR, BOS, GNV, CHS. Where might we have gone in the future? I'm not in on those decisions, but it's not like there is nowhere to grow. Try CLT, or MEM, or CVG. If we entered BOS, SFO, and DEN in the last few years, then ATL was not out of the question.

It is a plain and simple fact that Mr. Kelly has decided to grow by acquisition rather than by conventional means. I would agree that this acquisition has provided more "growth" than we would have seen otherwise, but that doesn't mean we would not have grown at all organically outside of the acquisition. My point remains that even a small amount of organic growth would have resulted in more advancement for SWA FOs than this deal will.

Not one of your snarky comments can change the picture, OYS. I'd tell you that your schtick is getting old, but frankly, your lunacy is somewhat entertaining, not unlike the babbling idiot over in the corner of the room.

 

[On Your Six]

So you think we would not have grown at all in ten years? You're the one who's dreaming.

Over the last couple of years, we have added many new cities, ones which you probably never would have guessed we would enter. (Because many here didn't think we would go to those places either.) Places like LGA, EWR, BOS, GNV, CHS. Where might we have gone in the future? I'm not in on those decisions, but it's not like there is nowhere to grow. Try CLT, or MEM, or CVG. If we entered BOS, SFO, and DEN in the last few years, then ATL was not out of the question.

It is a plain and simple fact that Mr. Kelly has decided to grow by acquisition rather than by conventional means. I would agree that this acquisition has provided more "growth" than we would have seen otherwise, but that doesn't mean we would not have grown at all organically outside of the acquisition. My

point remains that even a small amount of organic growth would have resulted in more advancement for SWA FOs than this deal will.

Not one of your snarky comments can change the picture, OYS. I'd tell you that your schtick is getting old, but frankly, your lunacy is somewhat entertaining, not unlike the babbling idiot over in the corner of the room.

You guys go to Gainsville, FLA? (GNV). Didn't know that. You can go into CVG
right now, but it would have turned into the next PIT for you. Big hub all for you there in PIT, but still underutilized. No O&D traffic there. CLT? Can't you go there now, too? Did you not see the last announcement of cutbacks by your company, many in PHL and SEA? You don't always do too well in other airline's main hubs, except maybe DEN. You gave examples of past success in growth (BOS, SFO, LGA), but I am now looking for your FUTURE growth without ATL. If you were counting on CHS and GSP, then I don't think it was going to be explosive growth. The acquisition or merger with Airtran was the only way you were going to get access to ATL.

You said you would have grown organically. Any new planes would have just replaced your old ones, the clunker -300s and -500s. The new Airtran planes actually add to your fleet, not just replace it.

And you contend GK would have expanded without the merger or acquisition, and you are entitled to that growth. What if there was another 9-11? What if more of your planes would have sprung their tops with worse results? This is the airline business, where nothing is certain. To think otherwise is really cocky.



OYS

 

[GuppyWN]

ATL has 32 gates?

That's 320 flights a day in our system...... or about 45% more than today. That's not only organic, it's orgasmic.

Gup

 

[Flycatcher99]

You guys go to Gainsville, FLA? (GNV). Didn't know that.

Whoops. Meant GSP.

You can go into CVG right now, but it would have turned into the next PIT for you. Big hub all for you there in PIT, but still underutilized. No O&D traffic there. CLT? Can't you go there now, too?

You asked where else could we grow. I gave you some cities we could add. I don't know how they decide to enter a city, as GSP and CHS were somewhat surprising, and EWR and LGA were especially so. So was BOS, with our serving both PVD and MHT nearby. Plus, they could add service in certain places, and were already talking more slots in slot-controlled airports.

Did you not see the last announcement of cutbacks by
your company, many in PHL and SEA?

Yes, I did. They cut a piddly few flights, ones like PIT to PHL and SEA to GEG. I'm surprised we ever ran those flights to begin with. Cutting a few flights right now when the economy is tanking thanks to Obama and his idiots does not equate to no organic growth for SWA over the next 10 years.

You don't always do too well in other airline's main hubs, except maybe DEN.

Based on the couple of flights you mentioned we are cutting, this comment of yours is a nonsequitor. We do very well in certain hubs. PHL and LAX are huge successes. MCO is a hub, is it not? Doing well there. We are kicking the hell out of DEN. BOS is also doing well, from what I have heard.

You gave examples of past success in growth (BOS, SFO, LGA), but I am now looking for your FUTURE growth without ATL. If you were counting on CHS and GSP, then I don't think it was going to be explosive growth. ATL was a huge door opened by Airtran for you.

I never said ATL would have seen the same amount of growth for us as it will with the acquisition. You keep saying that we would not grow at all. No growth into ATL. You are the one making outlandish suppositions, not me. I am making a very safe hypothetical, and that is that we would have seen a modicum of growth, at least, including into places like ATL.

Look, I'm done debating you. One, no one gives a rat's fart what you think. You have no dog in this fight, except that the final product will be a formidable adversary, as United is realizing in Denver. Two, you are incapable of admitting when you're wrong, which is frequent.

 

[JT12345]

Not true. Your airline, by being acquired by mine, is supplanting the growth that I would have seen organically over the next ten years. Thus, your airline is providing SWA with captains that would have been supplied by SWA FOs, if it were not for this acquisition.

Now, that said, I do agree that we are taking some seniority away from you. But with a stiff arm in my face keeping me away from upgrade, a 9% seniority increase does me no good, in all practicality.

So, what this deal does is this: it makes everything pretty much even. You guys lose seniority, but gain a lot of money. A lot of money. And way better benefits. And a way better company to work for. Don't want the money? Rather have seniority? Okay, then at the very least, your captains can choose QOL as FOs over captain slots.

SWA pilots gain a small amount of seniority (we are so big that your relatively small pilot group does not affect us much), and in return, we've lost upgrades that might have happened in the next few years. Do we get a choice on the matter? Not like AAI captains do.

Sounds to me like both sides gained about the same amount that they lost, with the exception that the AAI guys at least get some choice in the matter, and they also got ATL protections.

This is so delusional and far from reality I am not going to waste time debating an extremist one sided person. This guy is a perfect example of the bubble these guys have been living in.

 

[tico]

As a total outsider who tried to get "stapled" twice at swa...the second time with a real type rating and 1000+ hours using it....I will say 3 things.....100% of the native swa are better off with this agreement and this merger than with out it....100% of the swa step-children are better off with this agreement and merger than with out it...I am more than halfway to the top at a certain precotious but sleazy airline based in the pac/nw and would be happy on my third try to be stapled to the bottom of all y'all.....not likely to happen but would if I could....get the ******************** on with it ladies

 

[dicko]

:beer:I tried, the website said I used to many characters.

This website is designed to protect you. If you'd used another "smiley thingy" in that string, the results would have been akin to instant chemical castration.

Be careful out there. :nuts: