How can I drink the Brown Kool-aid if I cant hold my food down

[shootr]

Ummmmm..... our MEC has not voted yet.

One can always hope.

 

[jonjuan]

Hell no he isn't going to no! Nor is any of thier capts. It will pass.

Or "their capts." noggana pass.

 

[JT12345]

Captains low to mid lvl r giving up sooooooo much relative senority that the fences are not worth it. Capt reserve for 10 years... reserve credit.... disgusting senority,

or relative, choice of base, senior FO credit.

And there are no guarantees with these fences and protections, but i have to go to meetings to get briefed on it. Displacements... furloughs.... Heck you know that the fences could be seen as helping the SWA FOs too. No reserve. A nice bump in relative seniority verse what the arbitrator historically does. And how many mergers have had senior FOs take junior captain seats from the smaller company?

Junior Captains (and heck alot of the rest of us) Instead of being 75% from the top they could be 40% from the top and have more control over their life style with all the changes... pilot shuffling... etc that r coming.

The difference between SWA junior CA paycheck and SWA senior FO payck does not justify this.

I know what the SWA guys were worried about and this deal is sooo far from it.

And I know what is at stake for the AAI guys here too. This is not easy.

 

[Elwood Blues]

JT,
You are right and hope you get the word out as to how bad this deal is for the AT guys. They deserve better than this. No control over their quality of life, their base, never ending reserve, and the list goes on and on. That just sux and what they have now is better. Tell your reps that you don't like the deal and can do better.

Reach for better, you are worth it.

Elwood

 

[Kharma Police]

The funny thing is that the pissed of people on each side hate this deal for ultimately competing reasons. If this goes to arbitration, one already pissed off side will ultimately be even more pissed.

 

[N1atEcon]

I hope it goes to arbitration for a long long time. Then I pray some AT guys file a lawsuit and it gets held up in court for years and then to GH for the end. I'm just saying!

 

[Flying the Line]

I am curious to see how many Americans will vote no to a $60,000 pay raise in this economy.

 

[Lear70]

I am curious to see how many Americans will vote no to a $60,000 pay raise in this economy.

If they were already making $100k and had the possibility of voting no, getting a better deal and STILL getting the 60k pay raise?

More than you might think...

It's all academic at this point. We haven't seen the language that allegedly will protect the important parts of the Agreement-In-Principle. That language will be in the 4-party agreement (it's not in SL9, that's for certain). Once we see if that language is good and will truly do what it was intended to do in the AIP, we'll go from there.

Until then, there's not enough for anyone to vote on one way or another.

 

[madjack]

True dat, but don't expect any tricks or smoke and mirrors from the language...it is pretty simple...AAI gets 851 (vs 815) retention slots basically forever (after 2020 our CBA will protect those seats)...in exchange we get seniority on a sliding scale...we get all future upgrades until the 2007 hire SWA FOs reach the 50% line...bottom 650 AAI FOs are stapled, post snapshot hires follow...

Remember the 717s are seat locked for 3 years...AAI pilots on the 717 will not be sitting much more reserve than they do now...

 

[texman]

Really?

Talked to any of our junior or mid-level Captains lately?

No, but come on. Is greed setting in over at AT now. Thats great! If I here one AT capt bytch about the deal I will be more and glad to call them out. AT is gone and a thing of the past. They are doing it out of support for the FO's, but will vote yes behind closed doors. They want their seat and SWA capt pay and benefits. Its just business for them. So is this acquisition. What else do they want? Have you notice TY has not been on here much? He likes it so he is not saying much.

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

True dat, but don't expect any tricks or smoke and mirrors from the language...it is pretty simple...AAI gets 851 (vs 815) retention slots basically forever (after 2020 our CBA will protect those seats)...in exchange we get seniority on a sliding scale...we get all future upgrades until the 2007 hire SWA FOs reach the 50% line...bottom 650 AAI FOs are stapled, post snapshot hires follow...

Remember the 717s are seat locked for 3 years...AAI pilots on the 717 will not be sitting much more reserve than they do now...

I'm on the 71 and haven't been on reserve since '05. With this deal, if there are enough 71 seats in ATL for me to stay, I'll be on reserve. I'll be on reserve as long as I'm on the 71 til I'm forced to the 73. While waiting for all the jr WN f/o's to upgrade, I'll probably continue to be on reserve and commuting. It could be 8-10 years of it. I'll be sitting a 100% more reserve than I am now, or have for the last 6 years . Sorry, but perceived "culture", stability, and pay raise just aren't evening it out for me. Still waiting for all the details.

AFA tricks, smoke, and mirrors, since two AAI principles are involved, there will be. I'm sure they are trying to impart their employee relations words of wisdom to GK as well. It would behoove SWAPA to pay close attention to them too.

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

Looks like Tex will be "calling me out" .

 

[shootr]

Or you could "downgrade" to senior ATL FO and make the same coin you're making now. Your choice. A choice I won't have unless enough of you make that choice.

 

[gobyebye]

Or you could "downgrade" to senior ATL FO and make the same coin you're making now. Your choice. A choice I won't have unless enough of you make that choice.

Exactly, if it's not about the money but all about quality of life, take the downgrade. Plenty of senior swa fo's will gladly take your spot. You have that option which makes this deal great for you. I truly can't believe there are any mid/junior level AT captains even making a slight hint of disappointment with their position in this deal. I am around the 4 year point at swa and will be flying with captains junior to me for at least ten years (over 100 of them junior to me). That's a difference of about $7-800,000 in career earnings over the next ten years that they are getting, if they choose to keep that seat. Keep complaining.

 

[-9Capt]

Looks like Tex will be "calling me out" .

I'm going from 11% at AirTran to 38% on the combined list and between two SW Capts hired years after me. Bring on the arbitrators, I'm voting no.

 

[Ty Webb]

Have you notice TY has not been on here much? He likes it so he is not saying much.

We don't have a final product yet to consider. I have been saying all along that we need to follow the process, and right now, that process is hammering out the final language and presenting it to the MEC.

From what I have seen and heard on both sides, I would be very surprised if this is the final agreement.

 

[shootr]

Bring on the arbitrators, I'm voting no.

Gotta stand up for yourself sometimes! Good on ya'...

 

[400ADude]

I'm going from 11% at AirTran to 38% on the combined list and between two SW Capts hired years after me. Bring on the arbitrators, I'm voting no.

Agree completely. It is the best option for you guys.

 

[DonVerita]

No, but come on. Is greed setting in over at AT now. Thats great! If I here one AT capt bytch about the deal I will be more and glad to call them out. AT is gone and a thing of the past. They are doing it out of support for the FO's, but will vote yes behind closed doors. They want their seat and SWA capt pay and benefits. Its just business for them. So is this acquisition. What else do they want? Have you notice TY has not been on here much? He likes it so he is not saying much.

It's not greed at all, so no need to try and frame it that way. It is about having the same seat and same QOL on the 140 aircraft that we brought with us to this deal. That's what "fair and equitable" means.

Yet some of your pilots seem to think that they have the rights to those seats and that our CA's should get displaced. They also think that their seniority is somehow valued higher than ours. Sorry. It doesn't work that way. We are both Major airlines. The pay/benefits bump is a product of becoming a SWA pilot. I never applied there. I didn't ask to be one. GK made me one with the stroke of a pen, so now I am no different than any other SWA pilot. SWAPA didn't do that, SWA did. Therefore, SWAPA global seniority should have no connection to the pay/benefits bump that SWA orchestrated.

 

[gobyebye]

It's not greed at all, so no need to try and frame it that way. It is about having the same seat and same QOL on the 140 aircraft that we brought with us to this deal. That's what "fair and equitable" means.

Yet some of your pilots seem to think that they have the rights to those seats and that our CA's should get displaced. They also think that their seniority is somehow valued higher than ours. Sorry. It doesn't work that way. We are both Major airlines. The pay/benefits bump is a product of becoming a SWA pilot. I never applied there. I didn't ask to be one. GK made me one with the stroke of a pen, so now I am no different than any other SWA pilot. SWAPA didn't do that, SWA did. Therefore, SWAPA global seniority should have no connection to the pay/benefits bump that SWA orchestrated.

Then why not push to operate the two airlines completely separately and keep your schedules and work rules and pay and benefits. You can't keep your quality of life and expect to get a nice pay raise too. That's not fair to the southwest pilots, has to be fair to both sides. Since both sides have pissed off people, maybe that means this is the most fair agreement we could have.