Houston G3 crash info

[English]

I thought it WAS standard practice already?

Until one gets complacent.

 

[ww2flyer]

Not everyone

As per usual some guy (GIVSP) throwing his weight around, all the Gulfstream Pilots I know are well rounded and good pilots, including myself. (NO CHIPS)

1) One of the particular pilots in this incident used to work in socal, he had a good reputation as a people person but he was sloppy in his SOP and limitations for the aircraft.(RIP)

2) Tune and Identify is SOP, even VFR, keep the good habits going so one can rely on them when they become critical.

Flechas and User 997 you make valid points, keep the good work up, if you want to get in a Gulfstream you will, the Cessna is where you pick up all the good habits. You will lose them in the highly automated world where the ILS comes up in inverse video in the FMS is unable to ID.

 

[User546]

user997, it should always be standard practice to tune and i.d. and get the full i.d. NOT just a part of it. It will save your life. be safe and happy flying!!!

If I see someone do what I described, I always kick on the NAV ID on my headset to verify the morse code. I've gotten a hard time more then once for it, but so be it. Its a good habit to get into, as this accident shows, and it only takes a few seconds that might make a big difference one day.

And WW2Flyer, thanks for the kind words. Glad to see that not all of you Gulfstream guys are as ego-heavy as GIVSP.

HAPPY EASTER EVERYBODY!
(Cessna, Beech, Dassault, Canadair, Embraer, Hawker, Bombardier, and Gulfstream Drivers alike!)

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

Everyone keeps focusing on 'tune and identify', any professional pilot knows that if you are situationally aware, there are several other ways to make sure you are on a proper glideslope. Dist / Alt / VSI / GS Ann. on FD (all GIIIs have this) are just some of the ways. Heck, just because you tunded and identified, some crazy taxi driver in Russia could have bumped into the GS antenna at the airport (happened) and mis-aligned it. Don't ever depend completely on one instrument or radio.

Ace

 

[Dumbledore]

Gulfstream pilots are like every other pilot in this business, a dime a dozen.

Hey, ya know what? That's not a very savvy comment on your part. I note with interest that you seem to have no Gulfstream experience so how on earth would you know anything about the nature of being a Gee-Whiz pilot?

For the record, a GII/DC GIII can be one of the most confounding machines you'll ever see. Just ask John Travolta if you don't believe me.

Trust me, if you have a G-1159 type rating with some PIC experience to go along with it you've proven more than someone with just an HS-125 type and a little time in seat.

I'm not trying to start a fight so before you let your feathers get all in a bunch understand that I'm just stating some facts and I AM in a position to know exactly what I'm talking about.

 

[Viffer]

Trust me, if you have a G-1159 type rating with some PIC experience to go along with it you've proven more than someone with just an HS-125 type and a little time in seat.

Do you actually believe this, or is your ego so large that you feel the need to post about your superior attributes as a pilot? Piloting is not, nor has ever been dependent on what you fly. A great cessna 172 pilot will make a great Gulfstream pilot whether you think so or not. Piloting is about judgement. Period. It's about being aware of your situation, your resources, knowing your machine and exercising good decision making. This has nothing to do with the airframe. Anyone who thinks that a pilot of one type has 'proven' more than someone who flies a different type is not only ignorant, but also shows traits of the kind of ego driven attitude that is exactly what we don't want or need in the cockpit. I've flown large four engine jets as a PIC as well as Citations, Lears, turbo props, small singles etc, and there is no difference in what makes a good PIC in terms of skill or knowledge. We ALL face the same challanges as pilots every time we start up our airplanes, and regardless of the airframe differences, the good pilots will make good choices and the bad ones won't. Accidents come from poor judgement and bad decisions, not from the fact that an airplane is 'complicated'. Just ask the guys in Texas. Do you think that because they as Gulfstream pilots have demonstrated superior skill than a Hawker pilot, that they are safer and more professional, and better pilots? I think not, as events proved out. Get over yourself and you pride in your airframe. You are only a hired gun like all the rest of us.

 

[LXJ31]

Hey, ya know what? That's not a very savvy comment on your part. I note with interest that you seem to have no Gulfstream experience so how on earth would you know anything about the nature of being a Gee-Whiz pilot?

For the record, a GII/DC GIII can be one of the most confounding machines you'll ever see. Just ask John Travolta if you don't believe me.

Trust me, if you have a G-1159 type rating with some PIC experience to go along with it you've proven more than someone with just an HS-125 type and a little time in seat.

I'm not trying to start a fight so before you let your feathers get all in a bunch understand that I'm just stating some facts and I AM in a position to know exactly what I'm talking about.

Dude, seem to have no Jeep Wrangler experience, how on earth would you know anything about the nature of being a Jeep driver? For the record, the Jeep can be one of the most confounding machines you'll ever see, ask Oprah if you don't believe me.

Trust me, if you have ever off-roaded a Jeep, you've proven more than someone who just drives a mini-van and lets his wife drive.

Blah blah blah....


I showed your post to a couple of Gulfstream drivers I know. They both concluded your a douche and should get out of the house more(....but they haven't learned to walk on water yet.)

 

[GV-Ace]

Do you actually believe this, or is your ego so large that you feel the need to post about your superior attributes as a pilot? Piloting is not, nor has ever been dependent on what you fly. A great cessna 172 pilot will make a great Gulfstream pilot whether you think so or not. Piloting is about judgement. Period. It's about being aware of your situation, your resources, knowing your machine and exercising good decision making. This has nothing to do with the airframe. Anyone who thinks that a pilot of one type has 'proven' more than someone who flies a different type is not only ignorant, but also shows traits of the kind of ego driven attitude that is exactly what we don't want or need in the cockpit. I've flown large four engine jets as a PIC as well as Citations, Lears, turbo props, small singles etc, and there is no difference in what makes a good PIC in terms of skill or knowledge. We ALL face the same challanges as pilots every time we start up our airplanes, and regardless of the airframe differences, the good pilots will make good choices and the bad ones won't. Accidents come from poor judgement and bad decisions, not from the fact that an airplane is 'complicated'. Just ask the guys in Texas. Do you think that because they as Gulfstream pilots have demonstrated superior skill than a Hawker pilot, that they are safer and more professional, and better pilots? I think not, as events proved out. Get over yourself and you pride in your airframe. You are only a hired gun like all the rest of us.

Vfr, I like the basic thrust of your post, however, I would add this one (unpopular) opinion:

In my years of flying, I have noted this: If a pilot (or mechanic) has been in this industry for years and is still working in (or on) a small jet or turbo-prop, there is usually a reason. Either they are pretty rough pilots, pretty rough with people, or just can't figure out how to work within the system. I wouldn't call someone who has 7,000 hours and is still flying a Citation a great pilot. There is probably something wrong with him (or her). Cream rises to the top.

As far as the rest of your post, bingo! I've met plenty of 500 hour pilots that could fly way better than some 10,000 hour pilots. You learn how to fly and think well very early on. It is amazing some of the idiots that are flying around in Falcons, Challengers and, yes, even Gulfstreams.

 

[Viffer]

Vfr, I like the basic thrust of your post, however, I would add this one (unpopular) opinion:

In my years of flying, I have noted this: If a pilot (or mechanic) has been in this industry for years and is still working in (or on) a small jet or turbo-prop, there is usually a reason. Either they are pretty rough pilots, pretty rough with people, or just can't figure out how to work within the system. I wouldn't call someone who has 7,000 hours and is still flying a Citation a great pilot. There is probably something wrong with him (or her). Cream rises to the top.

I totally disagree. Every job and company that operates airplanes are different, and there is no way anyone can point to 'the top'. I know pilots who have fantastic, and very high paying jobs that fly CJ's. No large jet pilot job could ever better their standard of living. Something 'wrong' with a 7000 hour pilot, because he is flying Citations? How can you assume that? I will say again that the airplane does not have anything to do with a pilots skills, either flying or personal. Some jobs are better than others, and some of the best may only fly small jets. Don't assume anything about other pilots, or their competency if you have never dealt with them professionally. I understand how so many think that because they are flying a big new jet all across the globe that they would see that as the 'top' of the industry, but for every one of them there are as many more who would have another view. Also, those guys don't have to pack such a large suitcase, and are home much more often on average. Personally I enjoy the short range flying that I do now, and have no desire at all to ever work a job that flies 12 hour flights, and is gone for weeks at a time. Gulfstream or not that would drive me out of this business. So when I reach the end of my career does that mean that I would have been a 'pretty rough' pilot, or that there is something 'wrong' with me? Of course not, and I know you know that as well. Great piloting skill has nothing to do with the airframe, and every pilot doesn't need to be in the large jet arena to be sucessful and skilled. That's my point. The pilots of this Gulfstream make this point clear beyond a doubt. If they are the cream of the crop then there is a huge problem with the industry.

 

[flyguy75000]

I think Viffer is very correct in his observations. I know a guy flying a BE350 probably making as much if not more than most mid-size jet captains. He is happy with his pay, his locale, and his QOL in general. Go to the regional board and find me 10 guys that will all attest that they are 110% happy with their current situations. If you find the perfect job, and it isnt flying a BBJ, that doesnt make you a bad pilot. Guys that think "they are the sh*t because they fly ..... and that guy only flies ......" usually have smaller d*cks anyhow.

 

[GV-Ace]

I think Viffer is very correct in his observations. I know a guy flying a BE350 probably making as much if not more than most mid-size jet captains. He is happy with his pay, his locale, and his QOL in general. Go to the regional board and find me 10 guys that will all attest that they are 110% happy with their current situations. If you find the perfect job, and it isnt flying a BBJ, that doesnt make you a bad pilot. Guys that think "they are the sh*t because they fly ..... and that guy only flies ......" usually have smaller d*cks anyhow.

OK, calm down guys. I knew this would raise the hair on the back of some necks, especially the aforementioned ones.



Reaching the ‘top’ of the industry is not just about money or satisfaction. Those things are great, but they are not the ‘top’. You might find a proctologist that is home more nights and might even make more than a brain surgeon at Mayo, but come on guys, it’s obvious which one reached the top of his industry. If it’s just about money and days at home, GET A DIFFERENT JOB!



I am judging from 35 years of personal experience. There are some exeptions, but this is the rule. Yes, a 25 year veteran commuter pilot may be happy (and may be home every night), but EVERYONE knows the 777 Captain rose to the top. Let’s get real.

 

[flyguy75000]

Sounds like you have "Big airplane, little penis" syndrome. Get over yourself and your Gulfstream. You arent at the top of your industry. The guy that makes it to the end of his career with his life and enough cash to live comfortably wins.

Did a 777 capt. rise to the top, or was he lucky as hell to avoid furlough, bankruptcy, strikes, etc? He was born at the right time, hired at the right time, and had fate on his side the whole time. Whats your thought on a guy who is 59 flying a MD80, as senior as can be, but his airline doesnt have a 777? He didnt make it to the top, did he?

I guess you didnt either. Flying a little Gulfstream.

The CEO's of the airlines and the a/c manufacturers are at the top of the industry. We just work for them.

 

[Indapool]

Gulfstream = light twin

Get over yourself

 

[GV-Ace]

Sounds like you have "Big airplane, little penis" syndrome. Get over yourself and your Gulfstream. You arent at the top of your industry. The guy that makes it to the end of his career with his life and enough cash to live comfortably wins.

Did a 777 capt. rise to the top, or was he lucky as hell to avoid furlough, bankruptcy, strikes, etc? He was born at the right time, hired at the right time, and had fate on his side the whole time. Whats your thought on a guy who is 59 flying a MD80, as senior as can be, but his airline doesnt have a 777? He didnt make it to the top, did he?

I guess you didnt either. Flying a little Gulfstream.

The CEO's of the airlines and the a/c manufacturers are at the top of the industry. We just work for them.

Yes, m'boy, that is reality. Luck, being in the right place at the right time, having the skills, etc. is all part of rising to the top of your industry. I've never claimed to be at the top, yet. But I doubt Chuck Yeager would be flying crop dusters (I think he got to fly the space shuttle when he was about 80!) I don't know when or how you decided to get into my pants, but if you can't come up with a good rebuttal on subject, then maybe you shouldn't post. I understand it is difficult for some to argue logic, but, c'mon, you certainly can do better than that.

 

[User546]

Yes, a 25 year veteran commuter pilot may be happy (and may be home every night), but EVERYONE knows the 777 Captain rose to the top. Let’s get real.

Yea, lets get real. The 777 Captain worked his way up thru seniority, and arguably nothing else. Stay in the airline game long enough, you will be on the top rung eventually if they want too (barring any incidents, or arguments!).

Corporate flying is much along the same lines as "Office Life". The one who knows the best people, and plays the best politics, will eventually get the best jobs and fly the best airplanes. It isn't impossible for a 1,500 hour pilot to get in the right seat of a Gulfstream or Global, just because he knows that RIGHT person. But when he begins flying, do you think that makes him better then the 14,000 hour Captain sitting next to him? Not even remotely. Yet he's flying a plane that most high time pilots dream of flying.

Gulfstream pilots are no better then a Lear pilot. Sure your planes are more expensive, and might weigh a few pounds more, but in the end, you guys all navigate the same airways (figurativily speaking), takeoff from the same airports, push the throttle levers the same direction, and fly thru the same weather just as long with the big and small guys. That does NOT make you special.

High time pilots, I respect them, and this is nothing personal towards them. But an airplane is an airplane for all its worth, whether it be a Citation or a BBJ. Sounds to me like people that think different are the same people that look to society to determine whether or not they've made it and are successful.

Blugh...

 

[GV-Ace]

..but in the end, you guys all navigate the same airways (figurativily speaking), takeoff from the same airports, push the throttle levers the same direction, and fly thru the same weather just as long with the big and small guys.

Not true. I don't see many Lears and Citations flying the Atlantic and Pacific routes. The pilots that have risen to the top DO fly to more international airports, fly over the Pole, etc., but that isn't the point. Whether it be by luck, seniority, money, whatever, a C-525 is NOT the top of our industry! Sorry! I loved flying Citations, but I moved on. Look, anyone can do what they want, go teach some billionare how to fly a 172 for all I care, but that is NOT what anyone would consider the top of the corporate jet industry. And, I agree, there are some pilots flying left seat in a large, transcontenental jet that shouldn't be there, but all of the pilots that I've met that have high time and are still in a small(er) plane, have SOMETHING wrong with their flying or their personality.

 

[English]

...all of the pilots that I've met that have high time and are still in a small(er) plane, have SOMETHING wrong with their flying or their personality.

You really should get out more, then.

I understand the point you are making, but the blanket statement just doesn't fit every pilot.

I used to fly a 737. I quit that job to go back to flying a Citation. I wasn't furloughed, wasn't asked to resign, didn't have problems in training, etc. But using your logic, my decision means something is wrong with my flying abilities or my personality.

I recently turned down a Gulfstream III captain position - TWICE. I'd rather fly short legs and be home most nights. Wanting to fly short legs means something is wrong with my personality? No, it just means some pilots have different goals than others. We aren't all trying to attain the same goals.

 

[HowlinMadMurdoc]

I'd rather fly short legs and be home most nights. Wanting to fly short legs means something is wrong with my personality? No, it just means some pilots have different goals than others. We aren't all trying to attain the same goals.

Hear, hear! Getting into a large transport airplane, taking-off, and then sitting there for 8+ hrs flying ONE leg is B-O-R-I-N-G. I'm with English on this one - I'd rather fly short legs and sleep in my own bed every night.

To each their own...for GV-Ace, he wants to see the world. More power to ya! Just don't belittle those of us that choose different. For me, QOL (read: being at home a lot) is far more important than flying around the globe. And, I have the skill/personality to fly given I'm already flying a transport category aircraft requiring two pilots. So get off your high-horse.

HMM

 

[flyguy75000]

I bet you drive a European sports car too, right GV? Like I said, he's got little c*ck syndrome. Besides, at this level, no one really flies an airplane for more than 10 minutes a trip anyhow, so how are you at the top of the corporate jet industry? I thought it was an aviation industry. But what do I know, I only fly an airplane that carries one less pax. than your "Industry-topping" Gulfstream. It's the guys like you that got your a$$ whooped in high school.

Its also guys with your attitude that become a smoking hole in the ground. Sorry, but its true. Get over yourself. If you owned that Gulfstream, maybe you'd get more respect from us.

 

[GV-Ace]

I bet you drive a European sports car too, right GV? Like I said, he's got little c*ck syndrome.

You really should talk to someone about this...

 

[ultrarunner]

pilots that I've met that have high time and are still in a small(er) plane, have SOMETHING wrong with their flying or their personality.

Hey, could you give me the gross weight cut-off so I know if I have something wrong with my flying or my personality.

thanks.

 

[GV-Ace]

You really should get out more, then.

I understand the point you are making, but the blanket statement just doesn't fit every pilot.

I used to fly a 737. I quit that job to go back to flying a Citation. I wasn't furloughed, wasn't asked to resign, didn't have problems in training, etc. But using your logic, my decision means something is wrong with my flying abilities or my personality.

I recently turned down a Gulfstream III captain position - TWICE. I'd rather fly short legs and be home most nights. Wanting to fly short legs means something is wrong with my personality? No, it just means some pilots have different goals than others. We aren't all trying to attain the same goals.

Can I not be more clear? Noone is bemoning your desire to balance your life. I knew a gal who was a CFO of a large corporation, she later took a part time accounting job so she could raise a family. Great priorities, but even she knows she's not at the apex of her industry. Someone who does not rise to the top (as you HAVE, English), either has conflicting goals, or there is SOMETHING wrong or lacking with them. Period.

 

[flyguy75000]

So you have 35+ years of experience, 20K+ hours, and you're only flying a G-V? There is SOMETHING wrong with your personality or flying skills for you to not have gotten into a 747 or 777.

Oh wait, you probably like the life you were/are living and didnt see the need to move on to a major airline. Right?

See how flawed your thinking is, old man?

Who told you you made it to the top? Even by your own standards, you never made it.

 

[User546]

Whether it be by luck, seniority, money, whatever, a C-525 is NOT the top of our industry! Sorry! I loved flying Citations, but I moved on.

I have no idea why your bringing up the C-525?? It's hard not to perceive that as a cheap shot from you directed towards me, being that I made no mention to my position or current aircraft, or even a Citation for that matter. I know this is the low-rung of the ladder, and I don't plan on making a career in this airplane.

I was very specific to include a Lear vs Gulfstream, just so you wouldn't take it as me making any "personal" claims!

Dude, get over yourself already, I'm not trying to start nothing here, but your not doing your part very well!

Everyone else... have your way with him...

 

[Viffer]

GV-ace is a fool, no reason to argue logic with him. He is the top dog in his little world and cannot see the big picture outside of it. So be it. The traits of pilots like that do kill people. I've dealt with owner/pilots, and other pilots that were the same, and have not once felt that if I didn't babysit them while flying we would be safe. These guys place their pride above all else, and that DOES affect their judgement. Top of the industry, please! Get a freakin clue would you? There is a whole big world of aviation that has nothing to do with, or even gives a rat's a$$ about what you do, GV 'Ace'. As far as I'm concerned, you guys are the most unproficient pilots out there. How many takeoffs and approaches/ landings do you actually fly in a month? Huh? Not near as many as that C525 pilot, who would be far ahead of you in the same situation. Maybe if the guys that crashed had a little more proficiency they would not have made such basic errors. Think about it.

GV- let me fill you in on a little secret. You are nothing but an employee. You fly a Gulfstream only because it's your job. There are thousands of pilots who could do your job better than you. Nothing sets you apart from any other pilot in all of aviation. You have not proven one thing more than the Hawker pilots you used as an example. There is always a bigger fish, and you will not every get to fly it. Fly your trips, enjoy what you do and get off your soap box about how far beyond most pilots you are. And just one last time so you might get it into your head- pilot skill has NOTHING to do with WHAT you fly. Say it with me. NOTHING. The only thing 'wrong' with pilots is when they end up with your attitudes when the fuselage envy gets to their heads. That's when they can't even realise they have the wrong freq's diald in and fly approaches into the ground. A gulfstream pilot couldn't possibly do something like that, right? I mean, they're the 'cream of the crop', so they must know what they're doing. Right?

 

[irapilot]

Hey GV-Ace,

Hey guy, define "the top of the industry" for us folks that have such obvious personality disorders and poor flying skills. Clearly you have a skewed view of the world in defining yourself at the "top of the profession" after 35 years and thousands of hours but you are “only” flying a GV. Hmmm... after so many years I would think, by your "standards", that you have essentially failed by not having been an Air Force One aircraft commander or being the Chief Pilot at some big airline flying 747-400s or the newest 777? I think that flyguy75000 was very much right on the ball when he pointed out the same thing.

There is a disorder for this type of thinking, Narcissism.

Defined: An all-pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behaviour), need for admiration or adulation and lack of empathy, usuallybeginning by early adulthood and present in various contexts. Five (or more) of the following criteria must be met:

• Feels grandiose and self-important (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents to the point of lying, demands to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)

• Is obsessed with fantasies of unlimited success, fame, fearsome power or omnipotence, unequalled brilliance (the cerebral narcissist), bodily beauty or sexual performance (the somatic narcissist), or ideal, everlasting, all-conquering love or passion

• Firmly convinced that he or she is unique and, being special, can only be understood by, should only be treated by, or associate with, other special or unique, or high-status people (or institutions)

• Requires excessive admiration, adulation, attention and affirmation - or, failing that, wishes to be feared and to be notorious (narcissistic supply)

• Feels entitled. Expects unreasonable or special and favorable priority treatment. Demands automatic and full compliance with his or her expectations

• Is "interpersonally exploitative", i.e., uses others to achieve his or her own ends

• Devoid of empathy. Is unable or unwilling to identify with or acknowledge the feelings and needs of others

• Constantly envious of others or believes that they feel the same about him or her

• Arrogant, haughty behaviours or attitudes coupled with rage when frustrated, contradicted, or confronted

Now I am not able to render a diagnosis based on what you have posted in your prior posts, but it is for sure that your thinking on the subject of defining professional success is a bit off the norm and it may be worth some self reflection.

We all make choices in life and live with the consequences, some better, some worse. There are not enough 747s and 777s and those "top jobs" to allow all the "great pilots" a slot.

One of the best pilots I have ever flown with has no multi at all – but you want a load of fish taken off a tiny gravel bar or need to get back to the strip (VFR) when it is “500 and 2” and total crap, you want to fly with Dave. He owns his own business, flies because he loves it, works and plays out of his hometown, is his own man (doesn’t kow-tow sp? to anyone, like some rich, spoiled passengers that probably are on a GV, “oh, I don’t like that kind of bottled water” or “the limo is the wrong color” types) and has a steady stream of customers that know they have to be responsible for themselves.

So my man, here ends the rant – have a great day.

 

[GV-Ace]

Wow, guys, wow! There seems to be a LOT of insecurity here. Note the following:
1. I never claimed that I am at the top of my industry. You guys said that.
2. I never said that I was the best pilot, cream of the crop, etc.
3. You keep saying “get over yourself”, I have not ONCE talked about my position or skills, you inferred that.
4. My industry is corporate aviation, not 121 or military. I CAN’T fly an airliner in MY current industry.
5. Yes, flying a corporate 777 WOULD be the top of this industry, and NO, I don’t currently fly one of those.
6. Of COURSE I’m only speaking of professional pilots.
7. Brain surgeon, CEO of a public company, College professor, me…all employees.
8. Notice that most of these replies are from people for whom these statements probably strike a cord. Hmmm, fancy that.
Now, I am truly sorry if I have offended anyone, I’m sure you’re all great people. I do, however, still hold fast to my statements. Brain surgeon…top of his (her) field, CEO…top of his (her) field, College professor…top of his (her) field, 20,000 Lear pilot…well, fill in the blank.

 

[Bandit60]

Thats right you didn't say that you were the best pilot or the cream of the crop, but your nickname says it all "GV ACE"

I think you did say it thru your name,

 

[ackattacker]

Wow, guys, wow! There seems to be a LOT of insecurity here. Note the following:
1. I never claimed that I am at the top of my industry. You guys said that.

True, but you've strongly implied it. At the very least, you've put yourself as "higher" than a C525 driver...

a C-525 is NOT the top of our industry! Sorry! I loved flying Citations, but I moved on.

2. I never said that I was the best pilot, cream of the crop, etc.

Also true, but you clearly are a better pilot than a "7000 hour citation pilot", since "There is probably something wrong with him (or her)."

3. You keep saying “get over yourself”, I have not ONCE talked about my position or skills, you inferred that.

Correct Again! We "infer" from your User ID that you are a "GV-Ace" who's flown "As, Bs, Cs and many Gs" with over 20k flight experience...

4. My industry is corporate aviation, not 121 or military. I CAN’T fly an airliner in MY current industry.

This statement is truly puzzling. I suppose, since I work in the regional airline industry, I couldn't possibly move into a major airline or corporate aviation. How could I, if it's not in my current industry? By this definition, then I suppose the MEI is at the top of his industry and has every right to swagger around the flight line like he was Bob Hoover, since they are both at the top of their chosen professions.

5. Yes, flying a corporate 777 WOULD be the top of this industry, and NO, I don’t currently fly one of those.

But it's only a matter of time eh? Since "cream rises to the top".

6. Of COURSE I’m only speaking of professional pilots.

7. Brain surgeon, CEO of a public company, College professor, me…all employees.

I wonder how many CEO's spend a significant portion of their day sitting around waiting for their passengers to arrive so that they can grab their bags and walk them to their plane... but your point is valid I suppose. Another list of employees at the top of their chosen profession: "Employee of the month" at McDonalds, Head of Mall Security, and Chief Sanitation Engineer.

8. Notice that most of these replies are from people for whom these statements probably strike a cord. Hmmm, fancy that.

I think you definately struck a cord... and it was with statements such as this:

Reaching the ‘top’ of the industry is not just about money or satisfaction.................... If it’s just about money and days at home, GET A DIFFERENT JOB!

I would say that JOB SATISFACTION and MONEY are the ONLY reasons I go to work. What you're admitting to is that you are driven to work not because you have job satisfaction or you can support your family, but because you want to be "at the top". Ego, pure and simple. If that's the reason you work, why haven't you run for President? Then everybody would know that you are at the top!

 

[GV-Ace]

I wonder how many CEO's spend a significant portion of their day sitting around waiting for their passengers to arrive so that they can grab their bags and walk them to their plane... but your point is valid I suppose. Another list of employees at the top of their chosen profession: "Employee of the month" at McDonalds, Head of Mall Security, and Chief Sanitation Engineer.

I would say that JOB SATISFACTION and MONEY are the ONLY reasons I go to work. What you're admitting to is that you are driven to work not because you have job satisfaction or you can support your family, but because you want to be "at the top". Ego, pure and simple. If that's the reason you work, why haven't you run for President? Then everybody would know that you are at the top!

I like your post, good comebacks, not true, but very good. The two above I will respond to.



1. Ask the CEOs of Enron, Worldcom, HealthSouth, etc., I think you'll find that they are ALL working for someone, quite a bit harder than us, and some of them have ended up in jail. It aint loading bags, but...Now, if you choose to be in the fast food industry, I would say being a regional manager, or something like that, would be rising to the top.



2. I am in this industry because I love airplanes and flying. If it was for time and money, I would be in something else. You would argue that? I am driven to work as a pilot because I love BEING a pilot. That is all. And if this is to be my chosen industry, than I would aspire to climb to the top, as I would if I were a sanitation engineer. Ever since I had my first lesson in a Taylorcraft, I looked up at the bigger planes and thought...someday...

How about you, ackattacker? Perhaps not.