Houston G3 crash info

[English]

I thought it WAS standard practice already?

Until one gets complacent.

 

[ww2flyer]

Not everyone

As per usual some guy (GIVSP) throwing his weight around, all the Gulfstream Pilots I know are well rounded and good pilots, including myself. (NO CHIPS)

1) One of the particular pilots in this incident used to work in socal, he had a good reputation as a people person but he was sloppy in his SOP and limitations for the aircraft.(RIP)

2) Tune and Identify is SOP, even VFR, keep the good habits going so one can rely on them when they become critical.

Flechas and User 997 you make valid points, keep the good work up, if you want to get in a Gulfstream you will, the Cessna is where you pick up all the good habits. You will lose them in the highly automated world where the ILS comes up in inverse video in the FMS is unable to ID.

 

[User546]

user997, it should always be standard practice to tune and i.d. and get the full i.d. NOT just a part of it. It will save your life. be safe and happy flying!!!

If I see someone do what I described, I always kick on the NAV ID on my headset to verify the morse code. I've gotten a hard time more then once for it, but so be it. Its a good habit to get into, as this accident shows, and it only takes a few seconds that might make a big difference one day.

And WW2Flyer, thanks for the kind words. Glad to see that not all of you Gulfstream guys are as ego-heavy as GIVSP.

HAPPY EASTER EVERYBODY!
(Cessna, Beech, Dassault, Canadair, Embraer, Hawker, Bombardier, and Gulfstream Drivers alike!)

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

Everyone keeps focusing on 'tune and identify', any professional pilot knows that if you are situationally aware, there are several other ways to make sure you are on a proper glideslope. Dist / Alt / VSI / GS Ann. on FD (all GIIIs have this) are just some of the ways. Heck, just because you tunded and identified, some crazy taxi driver in Russia could have bumped into the GS antenna at the airport (happened) and mis-aligned it. Don't ever depend completely on one instrument or radio.

Ace

 

[Dumbledore]

Gulfstream pilots are like every other pilot in this business, a dime a dozen.

Hey, ya know what? That's not a very savvy comment on your part. I note with interest that you seem to have no Gulfstream experience so how on earth would you know anything about the nature of being a Gee-Whiz pilot?

For the record, a GII/DC GIII can be one of the most confounding machines you'll ever see. Just ask John Travolta if you don't believe me.

Trust me, if you have a G-1159 type rating with some PIC experience to go along with it you've proven more than someone with just an HS-125 type and a little time in seat.

I'm not trying to start a fight so before you let your feathers get all in a bunch understand that I'm just stating some facts and I AM in a position to know exactly what I'm talking about.

 

[Viffer]

Trust me, if you have a G-1159 type rating with some PIC experience to go along with it you've proven more than someone with just an HS-125 type and a little time in seat.

Do you actually believe this, or is your ego so large that you feel the need to post about your superior attributes as a pilot? Piloting is not, nor has ever been dependent on what you fly. A great cessna 172 pilot will make a great Gulfstream pilot whether you think so or not. Piloting is about judgement. Period. It's about being aware of your situation, your resources, knowing your machine and exercising good decision making. This has nothing to do with the airframe. Anyone who thinks that a pilot of one type has 'proven' more than someone who flies a different type is not only ignorant, but also shows traits of the kind of ego driven attitude that is exactly what we don't want or need in the cockpit. I've flown large four engine jets as a PIC as well as Citations, Lears, turbo props, small singles etc, and there is no difference in what makes a good PIC in terms of skill or knowledge. We ALL face the same challanges as pilots every time we start up our airplanes, and regardless of the airframe differences, the good pilots will make good choices and the bad ones won't. Accidents come from poor judgement and bad decisions, not from the fact that an airplane is 'complicated'. Just ask the guys in Texas. Do you think that because they as Gulfstream pilots have demonstrated superior skill than a Hawker pilot, that they are safer and more professional, and better pilots? I think not, as events proved out. Get over yourself and you pride in your airframe. You are only a hired gun like all the rest of us.

 

[LXJ31]

Hey, ya know what? That's not a very savvy comment on your part. I note with interest that you seem to have no Gulfstream experience so how on earth would you know anything about the nature of being a Gee-Whiz pilot?

For the record, a GII/DC GIII can be one of the most confounding machines you'll ever see. Just ask John Travolta if you don't believe me.

Trust me, if you have a G-1159 type rating with some PIC experience to go along with it you've proven more than someone with just an HS-125 type and a little time in seat.

I'm not trying to start a fight so before you let your feathers get all in a bunch understand that I'm just stating some facts and I AM in a position to know exactly what I'm talking about.

Dude, seem to have no Jeep Wrangler experience, how on earth would you know anything about the nature of being a Jeep driver? For the record, the Jeep can be one of the most confounding machines you'll ever see, ask Oprah if you don't believe me.

Trust me, if you have ever off-roaded a Jeep, you've proven more than someone who just drives a mini-van and lets his wife drive.

Blah blah blah....


I showed your post to a couple of Gulfstream drivers I know. They both concluded your a douche and should get out of the house more(....but they haven't learned to walk on water yet.)

 

[GV-Ace]

Do you actually believe this, or is your ego so large that you feel the need to post about your superior attributes as a pilot? Piloting is not, nor has ever been dependent on what you fly. A great cessna 172 pilot will make a great Gulfstream pilot whether you think so or not. Piloting is about judgement. Period. It's about being aware of your situation, your resources, knowing your machine and exercising good decision making. This has nothing to do with the airframe. Anyone who thinks that a pilot of one type has 'proven' more than someone who flies a different type is not only ignorant, but also shows traits of the kind of ego driven attitude that is exactly what we don't want or need in the cockpit. I've flown large four engine jets as a PIC as well as Citations, Lears, turbo props, small singles etc, and there is no difference in what makes a good PIC in terms of skill or knowledge. We ALL face the same challanges as pilots every time we start up our airplanes, and regardless of the airframe differences, the good pilots will make good choices and the bad ones won't. Accidents come from poor judgement and bad decisions, not from the fact that an airplane is 'complicated'. Just ask the guys in Texas. Do you think that because they as Gulfstream pilots have demonstrated superior skill than a Hawker pilot, that they are safer and more professional, and better pilots? I think not, as events proved out. Get over yourself and you pride in your airframe. You are only a hired gun like all the rest of us.

Vfr, I like the basic thrust of your post, however, I would add this one (unpopular) opinion:

In my years of flying, I have noted this: If a pilot (or mechanic) has been in this industry for years and is still working in (or on) a small jet or turbo-prop, there is usually a reason. Either they are pretty rough pilots, pretty rough with people, or just can't figure out how to work within the system. I wouldn't call someone who has 7,000 hours and is still flying a Citation a great pilot. There is probably something wrong with him (or her). Cream rises to the top.

As far as the rest of your post, bingo! I've met plenty of 500 hour pilots that could fly way better than some 10,000 hour pilots. You learn how to fly and think well very early on. It is amazing some of the idiots that are flying around in Falcons, Challengers and, yes, even Gulfstreams.

 

[Viffer]

Vfr, I like the basic thrust of your post, however, I would add this one (unpopular) opinion:

In my years of flying, I have noted this: If a pilot (or mechanic) has been in this industry for years and is still working in (or on) a small jet or turbo-prop, there is usually a reason. Either they are pretty rough pilots, pretty rough with people, or just can't figure out how to work within the system. I wouldn't call someone who has 7,000 hours and is still flying a Citation a great pilot. There is probably something wrong with him (or her). Cream rises to the top.

I totally disagree. Every job and company that operates airplanes are different, and there is no way anyone can point to 'the top'. I know pilots who have fantastic, and very high paying jobs that fly CJ's. No large jet pilot job could ever better their standard of living. Something 'wrong' with a 7000 hour pilot, because he is flying Citations? How can you assume that? I will say again that the airplane does not have anything to do with a pilots skills, either flying or personal. Some jobs are better than others, and some of the best may only fly small jets. Don't assume anything about other pilots, or their competency if you have never dealt with them professionally. I understand how so many think that because they are flying a big new jet all across the globe that they would see that as the 'top' of the industry, but for every one of them there are as many more who would have another view. Also, those guys don't have to pack such a large suitcase, and are home much more often on average. Personally I enjoy the short range flying that I do now, and have no desire at all to ever work a job that flies 12 hour flights, and is gone for weeks at a time. Gulfstream or not that would drive me out of this business. So when I reach the end of my career does that mean that I would have been a 'pretty rough' pilot, or that there is something 'wrong' with me? Of course not, and I know you know that as well. Great piloting skill has nothing to do with the airframe, and every pilot doesn't need to be in the large jet arena to be sucessful and skilled. That's my point. The pilots of this Gulfstream make this point clear beyond a doubt. If they are the cream of the crop then there is a huge problem with the industry.

 

[flyguy75000]

I think Viffer is very correct in his observations. I know a guy flying a BE350 probably making as much if not more than most mid-size jet captains. He is happy with his pay, his locale, and his QOL in general. Go to the regional board and find me 10 guys that will all attest that they are 110% happy with their current situations. If you find the perfect job, and it isnt flying a BBJ, that doesnt make you a bad pilot. Guys that think "they are the sh*t because they fly ..... and that guy only flies ......" usually have smaller d*cks anyhow.

 

[GV-Ace]

I think Viffer is very correct in his observations. I know a guy flying a BE350 probably making as much if not more than most mid-size jet captains. He is happy with his pay, his locale, and his QOL in general. Go to the regional board and find me 10 guys that will all attest that they are 110% happy with their current situations. If you find the perfect job, and it isnt flying a BBJ, that doesnt make you a bad pilot. Guys that think "they are the sh*t because they fly ..... and that guy only flies ......" usually have smaller d*cks anyhow.

OK, calm down guys. I knew this would raise the hair on the back of some necks, especially the aforementioned ones.



Reaching the ‘top’ of the industry is not just about money or satisfaction. Those things are great, but they are not the ‘top’. You might find a proctologist that is home more nights and might even make more than a brain surgeon at Mayo, but come on guys, it’s obvious which one reached the top of his industry. If it’s just about money and days at home, GET A DIFFERENT JOB!



I am judging from 35 years of personal experience. There are some exeptions, but this is the rule. Yes, a 25 year veteran commuter pilot may be happy (and may be home every night), but EVERYONE knows the 777 Captain rose to the top. Let’s get real.

 

[flyguy75000]

Sounds like you have "Big airplane, little penis" syndrome. Get over yourself and your Gulfstream. You arent at the top of your industry. The guy that makes it to the end of his career with his life and enough cash to live comfortably wins.

Did a 777 capt. rise to the top, or was he lucky as hell to avoid furlough, bankruptcy, strikes, etc? He was born at the right time, hired at the right time, and had fate on his side the whole time. Whats your thought on a guy who is 59 flying a MD80, as senior as can be, but his airline doesnt have a 777? He didnt make it to the top, did he?

I guess you didnt either. Flying a little Gulfstream.

The CEO's of the airlines and the a/c manufacturers are at the top of the industry. We just work for them.

 

[Indapool]

Gulfstream = light twin

Get over yourself

 

[GV-Ace]

Sounds like you have "Big airplane, little penis" syndrome. Get over yourself and your Gulfstream. You arent at the top of your industry. The guy that makes it to the end of his career with his life and enough cash to live comfortably wins.

Did a 777 capt. rise to the top, or was he lucky as hell to avoid furlough, bankruptcy, strikes, etc? He was born at the right time, hired at the right time, and had fate on his side the whole time. Whats your thought on a guy who is 59 flying a MD80, as senior as can be, but his airline doesnt have a 777? He didnt make it to the top, did he?

I guess you didnt either. Flying a little Gulfstream.

The CEO's of the airlines and the a/c manufacturers are at the top of the industry. We just work for them.

Yes, m'boy, that is reality. Luck, being in the right place at the right time, having the skills, etc. is all part of rising to the top of your industry. I've never claimed to be at the top, yet. But I doubt Chuck Yeager would be flying crop dusters (I think he got to fly the space shuttle when he was about 80!) I don't know when or how you decided to get into my pants, but if you can't come up with a good rebuttal on subject, then maybe you shouldn't post. I understand it is difficult for some to argue logic, but, c'mon, you certainly can do better than that.

 

[User546]

Yes, a 25 year veteran commuter pilot may be happy (and may be home every night), but EVERYONE knows the 777 Captain rose to the top. Let’s get real.

Yea, lets get real. The 777 Captain worked his way up thru seniority, and arguably nothing else. Stay in the airline game long enough, you will be on the top rung eventually if they want too (barring any incidents, or arguments!).

Corporate flying is much along the same lines as "Office Life". The one who knows the best people, and plays the best politics, will eventually get the best jobs and fly the best airplanes. It isn't impossible for a 1,500 hour pilot to get in the right seat of a Gulfstream or Global, just because he knows that RIGHT person. But when he begins flying, do you think that makes him better then the 14,000 hour Captain sitting next to him? Not even remotely. Yet he's flying a plane that most high time pilots dream of flying.

Gulfstream pilots are no better then a Lear pilot. Sure your planes are more expensive, and might weigh a few pounds more, but in the end, you guys all navigate the same airways (figurativily speaking), takeoff from the same airports, push the throttle levers the same direction, and fly thru the same weather just as long with the big and small guys. That does NOT make you special.

High time pilots, I respect them, and this is nothing personal towards them. But an airplane is an airplane for all its worth, whether it be a Citation or a BBJ. Sounds to me like people that think different are the same people that look to society to determine whether or not they've made it and are successful.

Blugh...