Hold on tight

[johnsonrod]

How does the new Bombardier order compare to the Flexjet order already on the books? I believe Flex already had Lear 85s and CL350s on order - right?

 

[Propilot77]

How does the new Bombardier order compare to the Flexjet order already on the books? I believe Flex already had Lear 85s and CL350s on order - right?

It is the same order! It's the one that was announced a few weeks ago. Just with 245 options now.

 

[ProFracPilot]

Is Resilience Capital in that MOU?

Resilience Capital appears nowhere in the CBA or associated LOA's.

 

[Praetorian]

Yes, I've read the LOA. The LOA is between Directional Capital, LLC, the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, and the Pilots in the service of Flight Options.

From today's press release:

"...agreement for the sale of Flexjet's activities to Flexjet, LLC, a newly-created company funded by a group led by Directional Aviation Capital".

Is Directional Aviation Capital the same as Directional Capital LLC as listed in the LOA? Is this just a nuance of names? Or is it a Sec. 1 loophole big enough to fly a Global through?

"NOW, THEREFORE, it is agreed that:
1. Directional shall not establish a new air carrier to do fractional or JetPASS card holder flying of the type covered by the Flight Options/IBT CBA, unless such flying operations are flown by Pilots on the Flight Options Pilot Seniority List in accordance with the Flight Options/IBT CBA (as it presently exists or as subsequently amended)."

 

[V1 Rotate]

Thanks.

Looking at the orders announced it would seem there would need to be hiring to that strength or greater.

My point is I do not think hiring will be easy unless pay goes up because of the expected hiring at Majors and Regionals who i also believe will need to bump up the pay. I saw $5000 signing bonuses mentioned somewhere on the regional board

They'll have no problem filling the seats with the 600+ resumes they're currently sifting through.

 

[AftCG182]

Keep it in perspective fellas. At least you've still got jobs. Enjoy our former Owners. You're welcome.

 

[BlueNose]

"NOW, THEREFORE, it is agreed that:
1. Directional shall not establish a new air carrier to do fractional or JetPASS card holder flying of the type covered by the Flight Options/IBT CBA, unless such flying operations are flown by Pilots on the Flight Options Pilot Seniority List in accordance with the Flight Options/IBT CBA (as it presently exists or as subsequently amended)."

Flexjet is not an air carrier. You'll find this on their website:

"The Flexjet 25 Jet Card program is operated under Part 135 by U.S. air carrier Jet Solutions, LLC. Flexjet acts as an agent for Jet Solutions, LLC, in connection with the Flexjet 25 Jet Card program. Flexjet acts as an agent for the customer for the on-demand charter brokerage program in arranging transportation operated under Part 135 by U.S. air carriers."
​

As far as the FAA (and so the lawyers) are concerned, the air carrier is a separate LLC, majority owned by Dennis Keith I believe, and the Flexjet planes are dry leased and the Flex pilots are acting as agents for Jet Solutions whenever a 135 flight is flown. The legal definition of air carrier is very well defined - it's a certificated entity operating under 121 or 135. A 91K company is a program manager.

As I said earlier, my guess is they'll change agency agreements over to Options, and be the biggest brand partner of 'em all. What's the scope limit you negotiated on brand partner flying, again?

For the Options pilots' sake I hope I'm wrong in this, but it looks to me like you got rolled again.

 

[V1 Rotate]

Keep it in perspective fellas. At least you've still got jobs. Enjoy our former Owners. You're welcome.

Keep in perspective, also, that we didn't seek out to be purchased by anyone. So, anything that we may gain at your loss is not something that we sought out.

 

[jetwash]

I am sure this will all work itself out to the satisfactions of both pilot groups and be a positive development.

I honestly don't think that Kenn plans to stick it to the options pilots since the good will in the current relations between the pilots and management can turn sour very quickly well before the next round of negotiations begin on the next contract. If the company is following the letter of the agreement and not the sprit in which it was made it can cause unwarranted tensions that can have a negative affect on the whole operation.

 

[gret]

Flexjet is not an air carrier. You'll find this on their website:

"The Flexjet 25 Jet Card program is operated under Part 135 by U.S. air carrier Jet Solutions, LLC. Flexjet acts as an agent for Jet Solutions, LLC, in connection with the Flexjet 25 Jet Card program. Flexjet acts as an agent for the customer for the on-demand charter brokerage program in arranging transportation operated under Part 135 by U.S. air carriers."
​

As far as the FAA (and so the lawyers) are concerned, the air carrier is a separate LLC, majority owned by Dennis Keith I believe, and the Flexjet planes are dry leased and the Flex pilots are acting as agents for Jet Solutions whenever a 135 flight is flown. The legal definition of air carrier is very well defined - it's a certificated entity operating under 121 or 135. A 91K company is a program manager.

As I said earlier, my guess is they'll change agency agreements over to Options, and be the biggest brand partner of 'em all. What's the scope limit you negotiated on brand partner flying, again?

For the Options pilots' sake I hope I'm wrong in this, but it looks to me like you got rolled again.

...or they may have bought out Dennis Keith and folded his certificate into the new company...saves a lot of money as they won't have to transfer a/c, perform any required conformity procedures/flights, crew members are already on the certificate, etc.

 

[outerfix]

Question. How many pilots are on the FLOPS senority list and how many are furloughed. What's the DOH of the senior furloughee?

Thanks

 

[FR8DOG777]

If the RUMORS are true, it sounds like another section of a once proud industry, is about to bend over and take it up the gazooo....

When are you guys going to start fighting?

Someday you'll wake up when you are 80, and still flying because you can't afford to retire, and you'll be asking yourself, was it worth not ever seeing my family, just to make it better for the uber wealthy...,,

I hope I'm completely wrong of course, but I doubt it....

That is the most intelligent post I've read on this nonsense board in ten years. 190+ days a year away from our families for a pittance of a professional pilots salary all while taking on huge risks flying into short strips and uncontrolled airports. Kenneth Ricci, the man's a saint what can I say? He so concerned about our brothers on furlough he refuses to pay an honest salary or contribute to our 401's. He will chew you all up and spit you out like yesterdays garbage. The 1108 couldn't have fU(*$)#&W*()$ this up any worse if they tried. Ricci is the scourge of corporate aviation. Get ready for the race to the bottom.

 

[BEfly]

Application sent

 

[BlueNose]

I am sure this will all work itself out to the satisfactions of both pilot groups and be a positive development.

I honestly don't think that Kenn plans to stick it to the options pilots since the good will in the current relations between the pilots and management can turn sour very quickly well before the next round of negotiations begin on the next contract. If the company is following the letter of the agreement and not the sprit in which it was made it can cause unwarranted tensions that can have a negative affect on the whole operation.

I hope you're right, and that this is an opportunity to bring the Options group up closer to industry standard, instead of seeing the Flex pilots pulled down. But my experience with human nature, and the company's announcement about keeping the companies separate, tells me otherwise. I do hope I'm wrong, then both groups can come together and make a better company. Anyway, we should be united against the real enemy

- the Judean People's Front!

 

[BlueNose]

That is the most intelligent post I've read on this nonsense board in ten years. 190+ days a year away from our families for a pittance of a professional pilots salary all while taking on huge risks flying into short strips and uncontrolled airports. Kenneth Ricci, the man's a saint what can I say? He so concerned about our brothers on furlough he refuses to pay an honest salary or contribute to our 401's. He will chew you all up and spit you out like yesterdays garbage. The 1108 couldn't have fU(*$)#&W*()$ this up any worse if they tried. Ricci is the scourge of corporate aviation. Get ready for the race to the bottom.

True dat

 

[johnsonrod]

Breaking News

Is this the next big industry announcement:

http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-n...-06/vistajet-moves-us-jet-aviation-and-wheels

Interesting... VistaJet has a huge order for new Globals. Probably some good job opportunities so long as the pay is better than what they pay their European pilots (pi$$ poor). Would all Global pilots be based in NYC?

I like the Wheels Up tie-in. They get to piggy-back on Vistajet's huge investment. Wow - we will see a lot of new Globals on the ramp in the next few years: VistaJet Europe, VistaJet/Jet Aviation, Netjets/Netjets Europe and probably Flexjet. Would love to see more G650s in the charter market too...

Here is Vistajet's website:

Www.vistajet.com

 

[Rupert.]

That is the most intelligent post I've read on this nonsense board in ten years. 190+ days a year away from our families for a pittance of a professional pilots salary all while taking on huge risks flying into short strips and uncontrolled airports. Kenneth Ricci, the man's a saint what can I say? He so concerned about our brothers on furlough he refuses to pay an honest salary or contribute to our 401's. He will chew you all up and spit you out like yesterdays garbage. The 1108 couldn't have fU(*$)#&W*()$ this up any worse if they tried. Ricci is the scourge of corporate aviation. Get ready for the race to the bottom.

Do us all a favor, when your phone rings asking if you want to return, say no. Please say NO!

 

[AeroBoy]

Regarding Jet Solutions, Bombardier is selling its 49% share to Dennis Keith, so Jet Solutions will be wholly owned by Keith. My understanding is that Jet Solutions will be kept during the transition and then Directional/Flexjet will eventually re-evaluate this relationship. Directional isn't a foreign owner, so there's no need under U.S. regulations for a two-tier structure like this. But it might be required to adhere to the Flight Options pilot contract.

 

[jonjuan]

Keep it in perspective fellas. At least you've still got jobs. Enjoy our former Owners. You're welcome.

You're welcome for the hundreds of former owners who came from netjets and were lured away by cheaper prices. I'm sure many of the current 495 thank you as well.

 

[cldsfr79]

It's interesting to see all this news about growth and positive(?) mergers and partnerships in the fractional and 135 industry.

I'm waiting for some other big news saying that NJA, the industry leader in fractional ownership, fails due to the lack of leadership and innovation. It sucks when you have an EMT focusing on the destruction of its pilots and employees rather than focusing on the future and growth of the company.