Hold on tight

[outerfix]

I understand the agreement. I used to work for FLEX. We are talking about three different things here.
Meeting the criteria for MCCaskil-Bond. The pilots are trained to part 135. The planes are maintained 135. 135 flights are conducted and sold through FLEX but operated by Jet Solutions. It's a convoluted situation and you say you would not meet the criteria for a air carrier as it relates to an integration and I say maybe it would.
The second issue is single carrier status. there are a whole list of criteria for single carrier status and to say there is zero chance is being a bit presumptuous. Here is a recent case by the NMB.


The Board finds a single transportation system only when there is substantial integration of operations, financial control, and labor and personnel functions. Northwest Airlines, Inc./Delta Air Lines, Inc., 37 NMB 88 (2009); Florida N. R.R, 34 NMB 142 (2007); GoJet Airlines, LLC and Trans States Airlines, Inc., 33 NMB 24 (2005); Burlington N. Santa Fe Ry. Co., 32 NMB 163 (2005). Further, the Board has noted that a substantial degree of overlapping ownership, senior management, and Boards of Directors is critical to finding a single transportation system. Precision Valley Aviation, Inc., d/b/a Precision Airlines and Valley Flying Serv., Inc., d/b/a Northeast Express Reg?l Airlines, 20 NMB 619 (1993). The Board?s substantial integration of operations criteria does not, however, require total integration of operations. Allegheny Airlines, Inc. and Piedmont Airlines, Inc., 32 NMB 21, 28 (2004).
All subsidiaries are wholly owned by Republic, but each holds its own FAA operating certificate. The Boards of Directors of all the subsidiaries are comprised of the same individuals. Bryan Bedford, the President and CEO of Republic, is now the CEO of Frontier and Lynx. Wayne Heller is the COO of Republic, Frontier, and Lynx. VP of Labor Relations Ron Henson controls labor relations and HR functions at all of Republic?s subsidiaries. Management at all of Republic?s subsidiaries has been integrated and has reporting responsibilities to senior management at Republic. This type of consolidation of senior managers, personnel functions and labor relations are often indicia of single transportation systems. See Atlas Air, Inc./Polar Air Cargo Worldwide, Inc., 35 NMB 259, 269 (2008) (single system found in spite of separate operating certificates and separate flight-related management). 37 NMB No. 32 - 165

As it regards the question of representation for flight attendants, the NMB found that Chatauqua, Shuttle America, and Midwest were operating as one system. It declined to find that Frontier and Lynx were also a part of that system AT THIS POINT, but made mention of the possibility that as operations continue to be integrated they potentially could be construed to be a part of that same system. Looking at the definition of single transportation system in the NMB document above, it appears that this will probably be the case.

The third issue is the clause in the Options contract that states that all fractional flying will be conducted by options. I hope FLEX stays separate and if CitationAir gets bought, I hope we stay separate as well. I'm just trying to figure out all the possibilities, good and bad

 

[Club ORD FO]

Let me ask you guys this. Would FLOPS want a merger? I mean lets face it, that would mean all the flex pilots take a massive pay cut under your contract rules. Can you imagine the mess that would create? Is it worth it? Why not just stay separate and fight for a better contract, using us a benchmark maybe. Just curious how you all feel is all

 

[CL300Pilot]

If I am reading your single carrier rules correctly, it requires management of both options and Flex to be the same. Since, as it stands today, we are having separate management, operations and locations, I don't see how single carrier status applies. Also, if you go to the FAA website, all aircraft operated by Flex are owned by either Bombardier or JSLLC. Flexjet does not currently own as single aircraft that I am aware of. Therefore, and again I am no lawyer, Flexjet is not an air carrier.

As a Flex pilot, I do hope this is mutually beneficial to both operations.

 

[outerfix]

Management would be need to have substantial overlap but it does not need to be the same. There is no one item that signifies single carrier but rather a list of criteria and when enough items have met the criteria the NMB rules. At this point you have the same owner and thats it but if you start merging the boards, maintenance and dispatch i would think your getting pretty close. I would bet that the Teamsters would push for single carrier as soon as possible to avoid the whipsaw. I know, i know your not an air carrier, you just operate as one. Believe me, i'm rooting for you to say separate.

 

[AeroBoy]

Sounds like you have some information that we don't have, that must make you feel very important.

So what's wrong with a friendly neighborly suggestion?

 

[OHGOON]

Phone-in meeting with the 1108 this evening. I will be very surprised if we hear anything other than the usual "support your Union, pay your dues, we have no further information at this time". It's not that our Union leadership doesn't try, it's just that management doesn't tell us squat.

Ah a voice of reason. Seems to me that most Options pilots who have not supported their Union up to this point are going to get religion any day now when they begin to realize it's really not a very good idea to be dealing with integration and seniority issues unrepresented.

No matter what happens, there will be arbitration involved, which costs money, lots of it!

All those who think that they will be better off without representation under the Mccaskill Bond amendment have not considered that they will have to pay for that out of their own pockets. (and you thought dues were too much...) Never mind that no one will be there to do the actual representing because everyone will be there all by their lonesome.

Who is going to make the arguments to defend your interests in front of the arbitrator when you are all on your own?

 

[Fresh Air]

Some info from the 1108 meeting

Nothing in the meeting last night could be considered confidential, and I know that there are a lot of folks concerned about possible integration issues, so I will share what I learned.

If any pilot force merging is done, the Union will support date of hire with fences, so that no one will lose their position or fleet. if CS (Union) is involved, IBT guidelines will be followed, which in the Union's interpretation mirrors McCaskill-Bond. If FLEX (non-union) is involved, integration will be done IAW McCaskill-Bond. So the result is essentially the same either way. No staple. No laying off your junior active pilots to bring back our furloughs, even though many of our furloughs would be senior to your active pilots. No seat grab or system flush.

Our Union leadership supports the idea that the CS or FLEX pilots keep their full pay, even though it is much higher than ours.

Some are concerned that Options will buy only the CS planes and contracts, and not bring the crews over. The judgment of the lawyers is that if Options buys more than 50 percent of CS assets, they are legally required to bring over the crews.

This is how I understood the information on these subjects, and I listened pretty carefully. Frankly, if this happens, you are going to get a better deal than the RTA pilots got at the merger.

One last thought: All the above is the 1108's point of view as I understand it. It is always possible that FO management could violate McKaskill-Bond to save money. If you are represented, you would have the resources to fight them in court. If not, then you are on your own.

I hope this information allays some fears out there.

 

[shanes123]

Anyone ask the question of where's the scope that if ricci buys flex they have to be flown by union pilots? Or if ricci decides to slowly but surely move all business away from options and into flex busting the union.. Where does that leave options pilots???

 

[Fresh Air]

That question was not asked.

 

[outerfix]

That all sound very fair, until you look at the CS seniority list. Pilot # 12 on our list would slot in with # 300 on the Options list. CS pilot #30 would be slot in at pilot #400 on the options list. 85% of the CS pilots would fall in the last 20% of the Options seniority list. Teamsters merger policy, not fair or equitable to the CS pilots.

 

[johnsonrod]

Has the rumor regarding Directional buying CS been confirmed? Has it been officially announced yet?

 

[Fresh Air]

That all sound very fair, until you look at the CS seniority list. Pilot # 12 on our list would slot in with # 300 on the Options list. CS pilot #30 would be slot in at pilot #400 on the options list. 85% of the CS pilots would fall in the last 20% of the Options seniority list. Teamsters merger policy, not fair or equitable to the CS pilots.

.....And Flight Options pilots would absolutely revolt if people hired YEARS later than them ended up being senior. Also not fair or equitable. As I stated earlier Teamsters policy is based on McCaskill-Bond, which is the law of the land.

Also like I said: Neither group will be happy.

 

[Fresh Air]

Has the rumor regarding Directional buying CS been confirmed? Has it been officially announced yet?

No, it is all speculation at this point.

 

[outerfix]

No, but the Teamsters seems to think it's a distinct possibility or else they would not be addressing the issue.

 

[outerfix]

Yes, but the law of the land is different depending on wether or not CS decertifiys the Teamsters. If we remain Teamsters we would get the shaft in a merger with Options. If we decertify, not so much.

 

[onetimer]

So, we are going by date of hire!? So will the flight options pilot list be redone. As an RTA pilot I have lots of people above me that have a later date of hire!!!!

 

[Fresh Air]

Yes, but the law of the land is different depending on wether or not CS decertifiys the Teamsters. If we remain Teamsters we would get the shaft in a merger with Options. If we decertify, not so much.

According to the lawyers last night, that's not true, the issue would be handled the same whether you are represented or not, thanks to M-B, as long as FO management didn't try to pull something underhanded on you, which you would have to fight in court.

Anyway, it's all speculative. Maybe FO will only purchase 49 percent of CS assets, and you will be on the street putting in apps with American Eagle instead of having to worry about the evil Teamsters.

 

[outerfix]

Fresh Air, I find it hard to believe that you would be unhappy with a deal that places over 90 percent of CS pilots below the furlough line on a combined list.

 

[Fresh Air]

So, we are going by date of hire!? So will the flight options pilot list be redone. As an RTA pilot I have lots of people above me that have a later date of hire!!!!

That question was asked. The Union has no interest in redoing our seniority list because they don't want to upset the original FO people who came out ahead on that one.

However that issue is one of many that will be considered in any merger situation, presumably to take in account the concerns of the original RTA pilot group.

 

[outerfix]

Fresh air you need to read your contract and McCaskil-Bond. The Teamster position is the same in both cases but if we are not Teamsters, an arbitrator gets to decide and I guarantee you we will do better then DOH with fences.