Hobby Crash?

[flyin4pennies]

Let me clarify something! HawkerF.O. has a point when it only comes to the controller asking for something that requires a reply in the middle of a landing and early rollout. With regaurd to the BOS controller, we missed his question once and he got snotty with us.

 

[filejw]

Dear Mr Hawker F/O,
I guess I should stay just a little above the glide slope just for guys like you .Maybe a static run up when your on a 3 mile final.This aviation has long depended on a helpfull attitude from all users.You sound a bit stressed perhaps you should find other work.

 

[HawkerF/O]

Seriously, use "your bosses brakes" and get the hell off the runway.

Is this the same boss who would never pay more than 60K a yr for a Hawker 800XP PIC?....

nevermind, maybe he needs the money - you go ahead and use the entire 9000 ft and roll out. Its all your runway, Captain.

You sound the like the President of the Abused Charter Pilots of America.

Nobody is asking you to skid sideways into the grass Ace, just get off the dang runway as quick as you safely can, I might be the guy behind you at the tail end of a 13 hr leg and would like to not go around because you're an idiot.


that "save the bosses brakes" line is real lame.






:smash:

Look Galaxy driver, I don't fly Hawkers anymore and I don't make 60K. You are referring to another post of how much a newly upgraded pilot flying 135 and 91 should make flying an H25B, and I said 60K at a min. as long as you ar enot on either coast, and now all the sudden that is my salary and my boss would NEVER pay more than that? You should go back and read what I wrote before you spout off your mouth with inaccuries.

just get off the dang runway as quick as you safely can

Is that not what I have been saying this entire post????????

 

[flyin4pennies]

Play nice filejw!!

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Look Galaxy driver, I don't fly Hawkers anymore and I don't make 60K. You are referring to another post of how much a newly upgraded pilot flying 135 and 91 should make flying an H25B, and I said 60K at a min. as long as you ar enot on either coast, and now all the sudden that is my salary and my boss would NEVER pay more than that? You should go back and read what I wrote before you spout off your mouth with inaccuries.

Is that not what I have been saying this entire post????????

yeah, keep "saving the bosses brakes" so you keep you job another day...sheesh...

You sound like a very nervous ametuer.

Most of us are beyond the "ATC wont make me do anything dangerous" phase - thats just a given - its not a noble chest-thumping Me Captain demand.

Its really common sense, get off the runway as quick as you safely can -- to include USING THE BOSSES BRAKES....even if you have to push on them with a wee bit of girly force.

 

[h25b]

I fly all over the busy east coast and still can count on one hand the very few instances where I have been asked to clear quickly. As a rule, it is very rare when I witness the "poor planning" that is being referred to. When these come up, yes, I'll do my best to be a team player as I have plenty of cash in the budget for new brakes when the time comes. My boss refers to the airplane as my airplane, not his... It is under my command as he hired me as the professional in charge of doing things the right way, period. After all, he's not a typed ATP and as such realizes he has no expertise to offer in regards to how the brakes are used. Conversely, I don't tell him how to run the business either. He has his job, I have mine. It's a mutual trust and if he starts telling me that the bill to overhaul the brakes is too high I start looking for another job.

For crying out loud, I can overhaul our brakes for a VERY small percentage of the total value of the airplane.... It's the cost of doing business. Of course though, I'm one of the few remaining pilots in the world that actually crosses the runway threshold at Vref to Vref + 4 (not Vref+10-20) and touchdown within a reasonable distance from the start of the pavement. This could explain why I rarely experience a problem. But I guess that's a discussion for another time...

 

[rnobson]

Not sure if this is an issue here but In the UK there is a definate pressure by "faceless airport bosses "to push for increasing landings per hour cos of the increased revenue in landing fees. I'd hope that's not the case here An extra few seconds spacing could solve a few of these issues perhaps ???

 

[LJDRVR]

"Quit sucking the crack pipe and put it down."!?!?!

That's constructive.


So the jist of your thesis is this: (I'm paraphrasing you.)

• Screw the controllers and the other jets, my authority as PIC and the cost of my brakes takes precedence over all other operational concerns. Ask me to make the first turnoff? I'm ignoring you because the only jet in the national airspace system I care about is me. I go rolling by the first high-speed turnoff (After being asked to make it) causing a go-around, but that's the controllers fault!

• Anybody who questions my ideas are suggesting unsafe operating practices, most probably they are an accident waiting to happen.

Ask an ORD or LAX controller who's runway it is. TELL them that once cleared to land that you in your non-emergency aircraft will roll to the end because as a professional you don't have time to listen to them.

Amateur.

 

[TXGold]

Looks like we have another old fashioned Pissing Match.

Anymore details on the accident?

Heard the airport closing while talking with approach on our way out of Bush. God bless all involved.

TXGold

 

[Rick1128]

Knew both people involved. The impression I had of the Doctor in my dealing with him was that he had a good attitude about flying. Not the typical doctor/pilot attitude. The mechanic I will not say anything about publicly.

As for some of the opinions expressed in this thread. We seem to be our own worst enemies. Personally I will work with controllers within the limits of my aircraft, experience, passenger comfort, weather, etc. Over the pass two Decades there has been a small increase in the number of available runways, while traffic has increased dramaticly. Therefore we all need to do what we can to use the available facilities as effecently as possible. One of my favority examples is the airline that declares themselves ready for immediate takeoff and then sits on the end of the runway for over a minute before starting to roll.

Controllers do mess up, just like we all do. If you can not do it. tell them right out that you can not.

Now in working with ATC, I do not mean tearing up the aircraft. With a little planning much can be done. At your regular airports you should have some idea what the controllers normally want you to do and you can plan accordingly. Proper speed control ( some seem to think that ref +10 needs to be held all the way to the runway), proper use of T/R's, proper use of spoilers, etc go a long way to shortening the rollout.

As for keeping costs down, I have to agree that if the boss is upset about maintenance costs then it might be time to start looking for a new job. But then have you been doing your job? After all if you work for a company, you need to grind the company's axe. Have you properly explained about the effects of going into short gravel airports on tires and brakes? Are you heavy on the brakes? It is surprising how much change there is in brake life when you wait until the aircraft slows to 100 kts and you slowly apply brakes.

The only corporate operations I have seen shut down over maintenance costs are the ones that were way over the heads to begin with. Most of them were shut down over misc. costs. Things like catering, the pilots staying at 5 star hotels at full price and not shopping around a little. There is almost no difference between a 5 star and a 4 star. And if you look carefully you can stay a 5 star for the same or less than a 3 star.

 

[hotwing]

r u for real?

Look, I'll be the 1st guy to help a controller out. That is not what I am saying. The point I am trying to get across is don't put me in a position to have to tell you no because you are assigining taxi ways right after touch down that you THINK I can/should make. If I can make it without standing on the brakes or a abrupt turn, the guess what? You'll get your turn, but anything outside that is unacceptable. Nobady has blamed the controller for this accident. Ask yourself this, "What's the hurry?" It's just that simple. Pilots think they are helping the boss by doing everything at lightning speed and the boss will get angry if you ar enot starting #2 as he walks towards the airplane, and 9Xs out of 10, that is just not the case. If it is, you should find another job, as you're probably doing things that youa renot comfortable with afraid that you might get fired. To me, one is just not worth the other. My family is not going to read about me because I did something stupid trying to do everything super fast. Once again, "What's the hurry?"

Give me a break dude... Get a life... What a joke --- SWA does fine doing things fast... They make money doing it that way.

Have you ever flown into LAX, ORD, JFK or any other crazy place? Obviously, you have not flown 121...

 

[HawkerF/O]

Obviously, you have not flown 121...

Considering that this is a corporate board, you are correct, I have never flown 121. Gonna stop laughing now.......

 

[filejw]

All pilots flying jet A/C should be required to fly to the same standards.

 

[400A]

All pilots flying jet A/C should be required to fly to the same standards.

OK, but with that in mind, just as many 121 guys are gonna have to stop flying. Bigger airplanes dont make better pilots. There are good and bad pilots on both sides of the fence.

 

[sydeseet]

Considering that this is a corporate board, you are correct, I have never flown 121. Gonna stop laughing now.......

I've flown 121. Do I need to leave the board? Darn, it's my favorite one.

Signed,

121, 135, & 91 flyer.