Help the RAH furloughs

[Beetle007]

Frontier and Midwest are operated as separate airlines,

Frontier and Midwest are in the process of being integrated into Republic. The Republic contract requires all flying to be done under one seniority list by any airline owned by the holding company or subsidiary of the holding company.

Except as otherwise provided in this Agreement, all present and future flying (including that international flying which originates or terminates within the United States or its possessions) and all charters, ferry flights (not including ferry flights of newlyacquired aircraft prior to being placed in revenue service), training flights, test flights, (except test flights assigned to management), or other utilization of aircraft owned or leased by the company, the company’s parent or any subsidiary of the company or subsidiary of the company’s parent shall be performed by pilots on the Chautauqua Airlines Pilots’ System Seniority List in accordance with the terms and conditions of this Agreement or any other applicable agreement between the company, the company’s parent or any subsidiary of the company’s parent and the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, Airline Division.​

 

[Beetle007]

Republic is currently the combination of 3 separate airlines operated by one pilot group.

Now it will be the combination of 5 separate airlines operated by one pilot group (after integration is complete)

 

[Beetle007]

Frontier and Midwest are operated as separate airlines, they are not regionals. S5, RP, Chitaco are all regionals, live with it. Engines under the wing does not make your airline a major either. SJS lives on.

I am a mid level FO at a LCC (Spirit) and I wish I were at Republic. That is where you will see all the growth and long-term careers. I have heard of some pilots who left Republic to go to LCCs and I think they are crazy.

 

[kf4amu]

I am a mid level FO at a LCC (Spirit) and I wish I were at Republic. That is where you will see all the growth and long-term careers. I have heard of some pilots who left Republic to go to LCCs and I think they are crazy.

Long term careers at those payrates would be awful. If they raise their pay to industry standard, there will be no more growth.

 

[HOMER D POE]

that dilemma sounds like "do I bend over or do I get on my knees and open my mouth"

 

[Beetle007]

Long term careers at those payrates would be awful. If they raise their pay to industry standard, there will be no more growth.

Payscales aren't fixed...they go up and down. 10 years ago United was at the top of the industry. Now the Max A320 captain pay at United is less than the Max A320 captain pay at most Low Cost Carriers.

 

[Beetle007]

Republic is currently the combination of 3 separate airlines operated by one pilot group.

Now it will be the combination of 5 separate airlines operated by one pilot group (after integration is complete)

Sorry...I forgot it will now be the combination of 7 seperate airlines because Lynx and Mokulele are also owned by Republic and being integrated into one list. But we can keep on calling them a regional if you guys want.

 

[IdRtherBsailing]

Sorry...I forgot it will now be the combination of 7 seperate airlines because Lynx and Mokulele are also owned by Republic and being integrated into one list. But we can keep on calling them a regional if you guys want.

How big would they be if every mainline carrier they flew for would go under or terminate their contract tomorrow? What color is the paint on their airplanes? How many Republic ticket counters are in terminals? I think its safe to call them a regional. When they buy Frontier and Midex, and if they change everything over to Republic airlines, that would be a different story.

True story: I was at a hotel near Midway a few months ago and a guy I was flying with saw a Republic crew downstairs. He told them that the guy he was flying with (me) was furloughed Midwest but didn't really want to go back to a regional. Their response was, "Well, we're not really a regional, we fly 100 seat jets across the country." That is the mentality here. Who pays your airlines bills? If the answer is UAL, USAIR, Continental, etc..Then you work for a regional. Do your captains top out in pay at a rate lower than FO's flying comparable sized equipment at the majors? If the answer is yes then you work for a regional.

 

[boomlrd]

It's useless, SJS is on the loose!

 

[Beetle007]

How big would they be if every mainline carrier they flew for would go under or terminate their contract tomorrow? What color is the paint on their airplanes? How many Republic ticket counters are in terminals? I think its safe to call them a regional. When they buy Frontier and Midex, and if they change everything over to Republic airlines, that would be a different story.

You ask what would happen if the mainline carrier they flew for goes under. I would say they would be better off than the mainline carrier.

Republic is slowly becoming diversified with two "ticket selling" brands and flying contracts for almost every legacy airline. They also have some of the best scope protections in the industry.

I find it ironic that Frontier allowed management to start Lynx even though they saw how poorly that worked out for the legacy pilots. Luckily Republic is forcing management to put Frontier and Lynx on one seniority list. Republic is slowly cleaning up the mess that other airlines have created.

 

[IdRtherBsailing]

You ask what would happen if the mainline carrier they flew for goes under. I would say they would be better off than the mainline carrier.

I disagree, Republic does not have the infrastructure to sell it's own product. I am not an airline expert but they need their own ticket stock, rampers, gate slots, etc. etc. Even if they were to combine Midex and Frontier's resources they still wouldn't be able to put all 215 planes to good use. Maybe eventually, but starting your own operation is a hard process, ask anyone at Independence. As you also stated, Republic flies for practically every legacy, 88 of their airframes are emb 135/145 or crj 200's, not profitable for stand alone operations. So as my original statement suggests, they would be in trouble if all of those mainline or legacy carriers would go under or terminate their contracts. The only airplanes they have that have a possible value for stand alone are the 170's or bigger, all of which are on contract to other companies.

My point is that their business model relies on the majors/ legacy's that they provide service for. If that would go away they would have to find homes for a lot of airplanes. Maybe that's their plan with Midex and Frontier. If they go on their own and you get on an Emb 190 or an Airbus and the FA says "welcome aboard Republic Airlines", not United Express operated by Republic, or Midwest Connect operated by Republic, then I would agree that they are not a regional.

 

[Indy319FA]

I disagree, Republic does not have the infrastructure to sell it's own product. I am not an airline expert but they need their own ticket stock, rampers, gate slots, etc. etc. Even if they were to combine Midex and Frontier's resources they still wouldn't be able to put all 215 planes to good use.

Yes they do. Bedford bought all this infrastructure when he purchased Midwest and Frontier. The company is in the process of reallocating aircraft to markets that make the most sense. In November, 190s will be moving to Denver, and A319s will be flying out of Milwaukee.

Maybe eventually, but starting your own operation is a hard process, ask anyone at Independence.

This is a completely different situation than Independence. What it took FLY I 6 months and half a billion to build, Bedford bought overnight.

As you also stated, Republic flies for practically every legacy, 88 of their airframes are emb 135/145 or crj 200's, not profitable for stand alone operations. So as my original statement suggests, they would be in trouble if all of those mainline or legacy carriers would go under or terminate their contracts. The only airplanes they have that have a possible value for stand alone are the 170's or bigger, all of which are on contract to other companies.

My point is that their business model relies on the majors/ legacy's that they provide service for. If that would go away they would have to find homes for a lot of airplanes. Maybe that's their plan with Midex and Frontier.

Fortunately Bedford has been smart enough to keep the 50 seaters and scope restricted 170 flying on seperate certificates. If any of the legacies try and cancel these contracts prematurely (outside of bankruptcy) then they will have to pay severe penalties for doing so, unless Republic fails to meet operational requirements. The new venture gives Bedford someplace to place 170s if a legacy goes into bankruptcy, and gives Republic options to control its own destiny.

Not saying how successful it will be, but this is a different situation from anything that has happened before.

 

[IdRtherBsailing]

Yes they do. Bedford bought all this infrastructure when he purchased Midwest and Frontier. The company is in the process of reallocating aircraft to markets that make the most sense. In November, 190s will be moving to Denver, and A319s will be flying out of Milwaukee.



This is a completely different situation than Independence. What it took FLY I 6 months and half a billion to build, Bedford bought overnight.



Fortunately Bedford has been smart enough to keep the 50 seaters and scope restricted 170 flying on seperate certificates. If any of the legacies try and cancel these contracts prematurely (outside of bankruptcy) then they will have to pay severe penalties for doing so, unless Republic fails to meet operational requirements. The new venture gives Bedford someplace to place 170s if a legacy goes into bankruptcy, and gives Republic options to control its own destiny.

Not saying how successful it will be, but this is a different situation from anything that has happened before.

I agree with you, that is with the purchase of Midex and Frontier all of this is possible and probable. But before all of that they rely on others. They are still a regional. They have the ball rolling maybe but not quite there yet. I may want to be a porn star, but until I quit my day job and move completely to gettin it on, I am not. When I go on Priceline.com and have the ability to buy a ticket from Milwaukee to LAX on Republic Airlines I will stop calling them a regional. I will even settle for Repubetaquameritieridex Airways. I'm sure it will happen. The company owning Frontier and Midex are holding companies so those don't count. Republic Airlines is a regional, Chautauqua is a regional, and Shuttle America is a regional. Frontier is an LCC, Midwest is a memory, no matter what it's called Midwest is gone.

What about the silent killer here, that is Skywest losing it's Midwest flying to Republic? This has to stop. Go see Zombieland.

 

[Beetle007]

When I go on Priceline.com and have the ability to buy a ticket from Milwaukee to LAX on Republic Airlines I will stop calling them a regional.

You happen to be in luck...because that day is today.

I just went to priceline.com to purchase a ticket from MKE to LAX. Midwest flight 1505 is an EMB 145 with money being collected by a Republic Airways subsidiary and operated by a Republic Airways subsidiary. No legacy is involved in this transaction.

It is all controlled by Republic Airways Holdings!

 

[IdRtherBsailing]

You happen to be in luck...because that day is today.

I just went to priceline.com to purchase a ticket from MKE to LAX. Midwest flight 1505 is an EMB 145 with money being collected by a Republic Airways subsidiary and operated by a Republic Airways subsidiary. No legacy is involved in this transaction.

It is all controlled by Republic Airways Holdings!

Once again when I can buy a ticket on "Republic Airlines" and talk to a reservation agent at Republic Airlines, and get in line at the airport and wait in line at a counter that says Republic Airlines in big letters on the wall, then I will not call them a regional. You are just proving my point, I don't care who owns who. Saturn automobiles were sold to Penske. Do people go out and say, "Gee, I want to buy a Penske"? No they go out and buy a Saturn. Republic owns Midwest but people are still buying tickets that say Midwest.

Get everyone from every company on one seniority list, then get every airplane flying for themselves as an independent operation, then I am sold. Otherwise all we are looking at is a handful of regional feeders, an LCC (Frontier) and a few others all owned by a holding company.