Hello Ual Goodbye Usappy

[eaglesview]

Cactus
regardless of how the nic was derived, after it was published the USAir group had nothing to lose by dumping ALPA. Pilots vote with their wallet and they feel there is no pay raise that will make up for their lost movement. ALPA has been dropping the ball a bunch over the last few years and is obviously in conflict with itself when it agrees to represent regionals and majors. It's probably asking to much to get the three sides together and work out an agreement but we will see. Vote UAPA

 

[cactusboy53]

Cactus
regardless of how the nic was derived, after it was published the USAir group had nothing to lose by dumping ALPA. Pilots vote with their wallet and they feel there is no pay raise that will make up for their lost movement. ALPA has been dropping the ball a bunch over the last few years and is obviously in conflict with itself when it agrees to represent regionals and majors. It's probably asking to much to get the three sides together and work out an agreement but we will see. Vote UAPA

You're right, nothing to lose: Accident Investigation, ALPA Legal, ALPA Medical, CIRP, Retirement & Insurance, ASAP (now piggybacked), Hotel Committee, etc.

Yea, I know that ALPA has been a very expensive date. That said, the USAPA "seamless" transition....ah...not so seamless. Further, USAPA is going to cost the AAA huge......no new contract for YEARS (oh, wait....First Officer Bradford said TWO WEEKS???).

Me? Contract 2004 is OK pay. 100% Deadhead, 100% Mechanical, and IV pay when I help to clean up some sort of mess. Life is good.

 

[steveg]

One of the chief complaints against ALPA was the cost.

Isn't usapa asking for more than ALPA?

Any truth to the rumor that the usapa leaders are looking for a "retirement" package because they were rep's?

 

[Hvy]

The UAL guys were leery of the '94 deal, livid in 2000, and I'd imagine will be apoplectic if a USAir deal is attempted now.

Just curious, from the UAL pilot point of view, how far will you go to kill this?

As far as it takes. USAirways is like a wet booger. You keep on flicking your finger but it just won't go away.

 

[steveg]

Oh, it's way worse than a wet booger.

It's a wet booger with a dose of anthrax on the end. Add a little radioactive mark so the sharp shooters can target you, and if that doesn't work the bombers can target you and obliterate you and everyone within a 20 mile radius.

 

[TWA Dude]

... after it was published the USAir group had nothing to lose by dumping ALPA.

That remains to be seen. The euphoria of the kill is winding down and now they're expecting results. Prediction: disappointment.

 

[vetrider]

That remains to be seen. The euphoria of the kill is winding down and now they're expecting results. Prediction: disappointment.

Very, very true. Somehow though, me thinks "disappointment" is the understatement of the century. Those jerks aren't gonna just say, oh gee shucks.

 

[reepicheep]

Funny how there's no "Keep Delta my Delta" now that they're merging with Northwest and not usair. And I don't recall the UAL MEC putting out "Hell No" letters when the deal was going to be with CAL. The name of the game in merger-mania seems to be "Anybody except usair."

 

[TWA Dude]

Funny how there's no "Keep Delta my Delta" now that they're merging with Northwest and not usair.

It's just a (foolish) pride thing. Delta's in control of the NW deal but Parker would've been in charge had that deal gone through. Lots of pilots like to use the "we bought you" line to prove how good they are.

 

[eaglesview]

You're right, nothing to lose: Accident Investigation, ALPA Legal, ALPA Medical, CIRP, Retirement & Insurance, ASAP (now piggybacked), Hotel Committee, etc.

Yea, I know that ALPA has been a very expensive date. That said, the USAPA "seamless" transition....ah...not so seamless. Further, USAPA is going to cost the AAA huge......no new contract for YEARS (oh, wait....First Officer Bradford said TWO WEEKS???).

Me? Contract 2004 is OK pay. 100% Deadhead, 100% Mechanical, and IV pay when I help to clean up some sort of mess. Life is good.

I understand your point. My point is that the contractual raise you are eluding to is less than they feel they will earn with their attrition/upgrades. Thus they voted with their wallet. That said it's good to hear your life is good, hopefully stays that way.

 

[f15boomer]

Not necessarily. USAPA is now the official bargaining agent for the entire LCC pilot group. If they fail in DFR, the AWA guys can still sue USAPA and the USAPA officers.

You really need to think about what you just said. If you do not pay dues to the union you have no legal right to sue the union for a DFR if you are not a member of that union.

If you do not join you can not sue. Ask you high priced lawyer.

 

[steveg]

All the grandiose explanations of usapa are bs. The only reason it was voted in is because a few guys somehow convinced 2700 usair fools that usapa would overturn the Nic.

Has nothing to do with ALPA.

It was all about a do-over, plain and simple.

 

[SaturnPilot]

You really need to think about what you just said. If you do not pay dues to the union you have no legal right to sue the union for a DFR if you are not a member of that union.

If you do not join you can not sue. Ask you high priced lawyer.

incorrect...USAPA is still the legal bargaining agent for all Airways pilots and now inherits the responsibility to represent all of their pilots fairly, members or not. As they are surely finding out, they can be sued quite easily.

I would tell you to ask your high priced lawyer, but judging from past practice, he will simply tell you whatever you want to hear and then let you live with the consequences.

 

[Deadalus]

You really need to think about what you just said. If you do not pay dues to the union you have no legal right to sue the union for a DFR if you are not a member of that union.

If you do not join you can not sue. Ask you high priced lawyer.

How did an idiot like you ever get behind the controls of an F15? Just try and remember when you screw up now you don't have an ejection seat.

 

[Bringupthebird]

You really need to think about what you just said. If you do not pay dues to the union you have no legal right to sue the union for a DFR if you are not a member of that union.

If you do not join you can not sue. Ask you high priced lawyer.

USAPA has a responsibility to represent all in the same craft and class, not just members. Failing to adequately represent someone will lead to lawsuits, regardless of membership status.

 

[eaglesview]

All the grandiose explanations of usapa are bs. The only reason it was voted in is because a few guys somehow convinced 2700 usair fools that usapa would overturn the Nic.

Has nothing to do with ALPA.

It was all about a do-over, plain and simple.

Do you think ALPA has your interests in mind. My first ALPA red flag came when I was with eastern and Hank Duffy (a delta pilot) was president. for some reason other carriers hired us Eastern Pilots however the PRESIDENT of ALPA could not help at his own airline. This is not directly related to this thread however for me it was the beginning of what is now 19 years on ALPA membership with not much to show for it. In the unfortunate event of UAL/US merger I would certainly not vote to keep ALPA. I would prefer in house where I know the union has my fellow pilots interests at heart and is not in conflict with the regional pilots wishes. UAPA

 

[steveg]

You just proved my point:

I KNOW usapa does not have my best interest in mind. In fact they are trying to screw me and 1700 other pilots they represent.

I don't like ALPA anymore than anyone else. But at least they are doing some good (safety, security, etc.). usapa has nothing. Zero, nada. They are not a union in any sense of the word, it's simply an attempt at a redo. They've done a good job at passing this off as a shot at ALPA, and a lot of people are buying it. In reality though it's entitlement. Plain and simple.

 

[FL510in10min]

USAPA will be a nonentity after any merger

 

[Ocity]

USAPA will be a nonentity after any merger

I'd say it's not much of an entity now..

 

[Fast43]

You really need to think about what you just said. If you do not pay dues to the union you have no legal right to sue the union for a DFR if you are not a member of that union.

If you do not join you can not sue. Ask you high priced lawyer.

Could be as simple as a Lawyer Representing the West Pilot Group suing usapa (the east pilot group) for not living up to the agreement that they as the east group agreed to before going to Binding Arbitration. Certainly you can see where the Leaders of this effort to circumnavigate the Nicolau Award would have reason to be concerned.

Fast

 

[eaglesview]

You just proved my point:

I KNOW usapa does not have my best interest in mind. In fact they are trying to screw me and 1700 other pilots they represent.

I don't like ALPA anymore than anyone else. But at least they are doing some good (safety, security, etc.). usapa has nothing. Zero, nada. They are not a union in any sense of the word, it's simply an attempt at a redo. They've done a good job at passing this off as a shot at ALPA, and a lot of people are buying it. In reality though it's entitlement. Plain and simple.

I agree that USAir pilots do have an image problem which they need to improve on. A lot of that is from the bs ALPA published. That aside when I show guys I am flying with the nic award and show them the lopsided award they understand why they did what they did. A nic type award would not fly here (ual) either.

 

[TWA Dude]

A nic type award would not fly here (ual) either.

Are you saying you'd be happy with a DOH integration with the USAir Easties? Really?

 

[Ocity]

I agree that USAir pilots do have an image problem which they need to improve on. A lot of that is from the bs ALPA published. That aside when I show guys I am flying with the nic award and show them the lopsided award they understand why they did what they did. A nic type award would not fly here (ual) either.

Sorry you find FACTs "BS". After an arbitrator hands down his award, an award that was entered into as a result of binding arbitration, nobody gives a damn if it will "fly" at your airline. It's too late, it's over. it's the Law. No childish antics...like simply changing your name will not work.

 

[Fast43]

I agree that USAir pilots do have an image problem which they need to improve on. A lot of that is from the bs ALPA published. That aside when I show guys I am flying with the nic award and show them the lopsided award they understand why they did what they did. A nic type award would not fly here (ual) either.

Eaglesview,

Could you illuminate for us how exactly it is lopsided.

I guess you would agree with the AAA opinion of the award since it would seem that your "Career Expectations" are rapidly starting to resemble those of the AAA pilots in May 05. Those attitudes must come with the territory.

Fast

 

[johnnyb]

Are you saying you'd be happy with a DOH integration with the USAir Easties? Really?

TWA Dude, if it comes down to a merger I think you'll find the United/ US Airways lists to be pretty compatible.

Put another way, the Nic award will be just as problematic to the United pilots as it is to the East.

I see the junior Captain at United is a 1998 DOH can anyone from United tell me how many pilots are below him/her on their list?

 

[PositiveRate]

I would put my money on Eaglesview not being a united pilot...he only has 20 posts and they all started a couple weeks ago RE united/us air and are all pro DOH....hmmm.

What a total waste of time this site has become....

 

[Fast43]

Put another way, the Nic award will be just as problematic to the United pilots as it is to the East.

quote]


And how do you arrive at that conclusion?

Merging UAL's list and LCC's Nic list will insulate UAL from the DOH argument that petrified UAL in the past. The Nic list will not work if a DOH argument is attempted by the group the east calls a union.


Fast

 

[PositiveRate]

......

 

[TWA Dude]

TWA Dude, if it comes down to a merger I think you'll find the United/ US Airways lists to be pretty compatible.

I didn't realize y'all were that old. I would think the UAL MEC would issue a statement in favor of a merger with USAirways if that was really the case.

 

[UALjan15]

I would put my money on Eaglesview not being a united pilot...he only has 20 posts and they all started a couple weeks ago RE united/us air and are all pro DOH....hmmm.

What a total waste of time this site has become....

Good call.....if he truly was UAL, he would have no problem remembering 8 years ago when AAA was floating up their DOH balloons. That BS was met with the same enthusiasm that the AWA pilots gave it. In a DOH integration with UAL, the late 80s guys that were on furlough a couple of years ago would be able to hold 75/76 Captain. And best of all, they wouldn't even consider it a windfall!

The only way DOH makes it into the discussion is if they use their LCC hire date (May 2005).