Hard work doesn't pay in Avation, unless you're a U.N.D. Grad!

[rubberducky]

... My point is the underprivelaged, hard working U.S. Marine vet. at the age of 30 who slept in many rainy fox holes with a machine gun just can't get ahead of the U.N.D. Grad of age 22 with 500 hours of total time.

Only guys in this situation are "hard working". Dude cry me a F%^#in RIVER will Ya!

 

[pilotyip]

TJ Pic

As stated before TJ PIC gets you the interviews and eventually the job. The college degree is nice, but TJ PIC will get you the job. Get the 1200 hrs and go for a 135 IFR PIC job. You are also close on the hours for a 135 SIC job, get ready to move, and go to start building time that enhances your resume, after 1000 hrs CFIing it is time to move on. But you have to move. If you want to live in one place you have limit your ability to reach your goal.

 

[Propsync]

Sorry Mtnjam, but.....

YOU chose to drop out of high school.

YOU chose to spend five years in the military.

YOU chose this profession.

Sorry if this seems a little harsh, but if you don't like any of this, and god knows I'm not in favor of the hiring practices either, QUIT. Move on. Don't whine to us about it. If you think "newbie fo's are getting abused" and they have less time than you, why would you want an airline job anyway? I would have expected a better attitude from a serviceman. Go out and do your best until you acheive the results you want, regardless what everyone else is doing.

Most of these guys didn't go to school to get hired at 500 hrs. They were already in school when this stuff happened. The school got a great break on marketing the program to future students. The ones who will prosper are the ones just out of school now. Fair? No. Safe? Depends.

Laugh at this, until ALPA and the rest can align this profession across this country, it will not get better. Somebody mentioned a guild as being the way to go. I don't think it would happen. As long as the dues are collected, ALPA can fight mainline battles, where the majority of their dues money lies.

 

[SLFLYHI]

I worked while paying my own way through my education, spent all my money to move to Maryland to instruct FULL TIME and now with 1100 hours and 100 hrs. of Multi-Engine, am unable to move onto a Regional Airline because the way they are abusing newbie F/O's. My question is, how do these companies expect to find good quality individuals? Who are the people taking these jobs that don't pay you during training, don't pay for your hotel accomodations for approx. 8 weeks while you train, doc your pay for uniforms and only pay you a starting salary of around 20 to 22k? Then on top of that you have to move!!!

Seeing U.N.D. Grads instructing at my place of employment until they get 500 total time and moving onto Piedmont Airlines or Cirrus is not cool. My point is the underprivelaged, hard working U.S. Marine vet. at the age of 30 who slept in many rainy fox holes with a machine gun just can't get ahead of the U.N.D. Grad of age 22 with 500 hours of total time. The problem is that I'm not the only one!! I've been instructing for just over 2 yrs. and over 1 yr. full time.

Too bad everyone will not stand up to the airlines and say, "hey look take care of us a little better." What would the world do without air travel if all pilot's were on strike or would not take a job unless they got paid during training? They would eventually concave, but the problem is there are too many "pilot whores" and it will NEVER happen. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

I appreciate the challenges you've overcome - however, it seems to me like you were getting into this without understanding the path(s) to success. Most people I know, including me, understood from day one that it would be very difficult to get a decent flying job with a regional and we accepted that fact. We also knew how lousy the pay was and that yes, we could make more money doing just about anything else....

With that said, you have to be willing to pay the price to play this game. It doesn't seem to me like you want to pay this price. I fly for a large regional, I've been at it for 4 years and still only make $30K. I've been furloughed, and have relocated for this company 4 times - 3 of which were on my own dime. But I'm not bitchin. Maybe if you had done a little more homework before getting into this you would have realized it's a very long and hard road to success.

The bottom line is this: you need more flight time, you need to do a little networking, and you should really drop your attitude against the major university pilots. The truth of the matter is that they are getting jobs because they are networking (interning) while in school. Many of them have just as much time as you when they get hired somewhere - not 500 hours. And most importantly, they all have a more positive attitude than you.

With that said, if you love flying, that's all that matters. If you want to make a million dollars, start day trading on Ameritrade.

Best of luck to you. I hope you find your way into the happiness you desire.

 

[Mtnjam]

350 Driver is the Man!

So far I'd have to say from being pretty new to this internet site that it's stocked full of former Military Pilots or Expensive University Grads. The former Marine who replied to this post, is obviously a Marine Officer who never scrubbed **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ters as a Private or cleaned blades of grass with a tooth brush because bootprints were on them. That's OK, because I train the newly graduated Ensons and Marine Lt's that are soon to go to Pensacola FL. to try and be a fighter jock. I understand their modes of thinking! Officer mentality!! And Yes the ABB kicks ass, but not anymore without Dickey Betts, however Warren Haynes and Derek Trucks together is a nice Harmony!
Speaking of University Grads that have their mother and father supporting their habit definetely strikes a nerve with them. A regional job is not my ulitimate goal here ladies and gents. Flying is in my blood and has been since day one. My whole point of the matter was to represent myself along with the other hard working, " And by this I mean those who are not still sucking on mama's nipple" Pilot's who deserve a chance at a 135 job or a 121 job, but are unable because the company's take advantage of the new hires and make them pay for expenses such as hotel's during training. People obviously do not understand that as long as new hires continue to pay for their hotel expenses and not get paid during training, the Management and HR at the Regionals will continue to say "Hey these guys are either idiots, or their mom and dad's are loaded, so let's continue to cut our budgets and send our CEO on that Special Vacation to the Greek Islands!!!"
350 Driver hit the head right on the nail with his post. He obviously understands exactly where I'm coming from and it's very few and far between that I ever run into an airman on the ground that's in the same boat as I. Take a stand people!! The dude paying for your own type rating?? WHY!!!! Don't you realize there are many companies out there that will pay your way as long as you're loyal? Except for SWA of course, but everyone should know they need a B737 type before even appyling there. They make it known right up front!
All I know is that the Pilot industry is crazy! I am the definition of "the black sheep" and I love it. My students get elbows in their gut and clip boards in the back of their heads when they don't listen and not only do they love every minute of it, they learn and I NEVER have to tell them right rudder three times! They Always Ace their stage cheks and Chek rides! So you're "Big University flying Ethics" do not always pull through my friends! I am currently training a U.N.D. CFI grad how to explain to his students what a level flight attitude is!! So that's the answere kids, have mom and dad pay your way through school, so you can have a seasoned CFI teach you how to teach! Get your 500 hrs and 50 hrs. of multi time so you can be my captain on a CRJ or ERJ! This posting all in itself has allowed me to scan what type of people are looking at these posting's and I am highly dissapointed. I am not in this for the fame, attention or money! It is my natural born gift and I get a great satisfaction from being an over achiever. So thanks to everyone for posting whether you went to Pensacola FL right out of College or O.C.S. Or whether Mom and Dad supported you during your first two years of instructing and your 135 or 121 job! I truly give thanks to those who really understand what I'm speaking of. I surrender folks

"If you get confused, listen to the music play." Robert Hunter/J.Garcia

 

[350DRIVER]

Mtnjam,

I feel your frustration and pain on this issue, I have very little if any respect for these rich punks who got to where they are present day by the financial support and help of Daddy and mommy. Like Golf, this is a "rich kids" sport no matter which way you look at it. I have busted my @ss from day 1 as you have done to get to where I am at and I surely will not extend any sort of helping hand to these guys. People wonder why you can make more working at a Taco Bell or Wendy's in comparison to most regionals, they need not look too far when you got 500 hour wonder pilots coming out of these programs willing to fly for peanuts and cokes in return to be able to sit right seat in a new shiny RJ and wear that uniform. It is sad that this is the mentality of most but it is the reality and fact no matter which way you look at it. Do me a favor, think twice about helping others out when the opportunity presents itself, this may/will backfire on you in most cases. . Everyone will come across as your "friend" on this board just to attempt to better themselves... Be careful when asked for help.


This board has many of these rich kids so you can expect to listen to the BS time and time again and all the acting that they put into play to try and justify their actions and why they deserve that RJ job, BS.... They are no better than you or anyone else, they were just foolish enough to spend thousands more in training costs than we did.

I had to laugh at one of the ERAU guys trying to justify "why" he should be hired with less total time, complete horse sh!T.


good luck to you my friend,

good things will usually happen to good people, it is not always that the good guy finishes last. PM me and I will do my best to help you out.. You have come too far not to get the job done and get to where you want to get to. . .This industry is a mean animal so you need to be just as mean.

3 5 0

 

[BoilerUP]

Guess us "college boys" owe you something, eh?

My students get elbows in their gut and clip boards in the back of their heads when they don't listen and not only do they love every minute of it, they learn and I NEVER have to tell them right rudder three times! They Always Ace their stage cheks and Chek rides! So you're "Big University flying Ethics" do not always pull through my friends!

I am not in this for the fame, attention or money! It is my natural born gift and I get a great satisfaction from being an over achiever.

Well its nice to know humility is your strong suit there, Marine If the top quote is truly reflective of your instruction style, I'd like to speak to your students and see if they really enjoy "clipboards in the back of their heads" and "elbows in their gut". Sounds like they are performing out of fear, not skill or ability. This isn't Parris Island anymore.

Like I said before, you sound horribly jealous with this little rant against you have going here, and attitudes like that get you NO WHERE in this industry. I certainly ain't no rich kid, and I've been busting my ass the whole time I've been in school to get ahead just the same as any other broke-ass CFI, so cry me a river. Once you do get hired, you are very likely to get paired up with a 24-26 year old captain from such a program. Are you going to bitch and whine to them then???

I know a CA at XJT, and he can't stand the people who PFT'd there in the 90s. He worked is way up the latter by getting his A&P and working on people's multi-engine planes in exchange for time. I'll never forget this he told me - "People that work hard and earn it appreciate it more". Perhaps you should take such advice to heart.

Once again, good luck in your aviation career, but quit whining about college grads or military officers - they aren't the ones holding you down.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

. That's OK, because I train the newly graduated Ensons and Marine Lt's that are soon to go to Pensacola FL. to try and be a fighter jock. I understand their modes of thinking! Officer mentality!! My students get elbows in their gut and clip boards in the back of their heads when they don't listen and not only do they love every minute of it, they learn and I NEVER have to tell them right rudder three times! They Always Ace their stage cheks and Chek rides! So you're "Big University flying Ethics" do not always pull through my friends! I am currently training a U.N.D. CFI grad how to explain to his students what a level flight attitude is!! So that's the answere kids, have mom and dad pay your way through school, so you can have a seasoned CFI teach you how to teach! Get your 500 hrs and 50 hrs. of multi time so you can be my captain on a CRJ or ERJ! This posting all in itself has allowed me to scan what type of people are looking at these posting's and I am highly dissapointed. I am not in this for the fame, attention or money! It is my natural born gift and I get a great satisfaction from being an over achiever. So thanks to everyone for posting whether you went to Pensacola FL right out of College or O.C.S. Or whether Mom and Dad supported you during your first two years of instructing and your 135 or 121 job! I truly give thanks to those who really understand what I'm speaking of. I surrender folks

"If you get confused, listen to the music play." Robert Hunter/J.Garcia

This highly literary post is quite entertaining. Tell us why a high school dropout and self-proclaimed "over-achiever" like yourself deserves anything but pity? No on owes you a living, much less a job flying people. Keep on training your "Ensons"- that would be "Ensign", for those of you who graduated high school- and keep your pity to yourself.
You can blame ONLY yourself for being a miserable failure up to this point in your life.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

mtnjam,

In all seriousness, get some interview help...because once you do get a few more hours and land some interviews - you will tank them in 2 minutes.

good luck!

 

[Dangerkitty]

Mtnjam,

Take that attitude to a Regional Airline and you will be shown the street in no time. You remind me of a guy in my B-727 FE class at American. He thought that since he flew C-130's for the military he deserved a job with a major. He also thought he was a much better pilot than any of us lowly civillians. Well, AA had a different idea and since he couldn't seem to pass the checkride he was shown the door.

You only have 1100 hours. You really dont have very much flight time. You have alot to learn. With the fact that airlines have furloughed for the past three years means that there are many people with tons more aviation experience than you looking for flying jobs.

If I were you before you get any interview I would strongly suggest you do some CRM training. Becuase if not and you do infact get a job you are going to be Professional Standards most popular pilot. If you are able to make it through Probation.