Hard work doesn't pay in Avation, unless you're a U.N.D. Grad!

[bobbysamd]

Flamebait - or something

I have been reading this web page for almost 10 years..... 80% of the people on this board are huge losers... including the resume writer gal..
-Ronin, out

Wow, where did THAT come from? How is providing helpful information to people make you a loser? Please enlighten me.

It's a non-sequitur. Besides, I do not believe this board has been up for ten years. Hardly anyone was on the internet ten years ago.

Just consider the source.

 

[pilotyip]

When did this thing start?

I know it is not 10 years, I have been using this since 2000, how long has this been around in its present and former lifes?

 

[Cpt Splash]

Mtnjam,
I understand your frustration and God knows that many of us have had the same frustration, but to make a statement that ERAU and UND grads are the problem with YOU getting a job is just plain ignorant. YOU have made decisions in your life that have led you to your current situation.
I graduated ERAU and I didn't do it with Mommy and Daddy's money, I placed the burden on myself because it is what I wanted to do. I also didn't go the regional route like many of my friends did because I believe there is a lot more true flying out there then there is with the airlines. I did flight instructing for 2 and half years and then started flying 135. I flew high performance single engine aircraft all along the North East into airports like LGA and TEB. Then I was given the opportunity to get Typed in a Citation and fly the left seat, all paid for by the company I work for. Did I get it because I graduated ERAU? NO! I got the opportunity because I proved my worth. The education I received from ERAU was first class. I took the knowledge and made myself the pilot I am today.
You have low time and your going to have to get more. I think the advice others have given you in this forum about flying 135 or flying checks should be seriously considered. Your whining and blaming of others is not going to get you any sympathy here or in the industry. If your airline horny only, then keep applying and SELL YOURSELF. Make a follow up phone call after you send your resume and speak with the recuiter. They will listen.
By the way, my friends who work for the regionals are unhappy with their current situation but thats the breaks. I made Captain at 25 but I still look for other opportunities out there and will continue to do so. Thats how you stay competative. And one day I may work for an airline, who knows.
The only person you have to blame is yourself. If you don't like it, get out.

 

[Airpiraterob]

a few tips to help

i as well appreciate your military service for us and our country. however you have yet to say thank-you for any one previous to me for saying that as wll as thank you for anyones kind comments and suggestions that some of these honest people have lended to you. i am not so kind and sometimes i am....and i think youre unappreciative for anything that anyones said so far.

the following is to help you and frankly its what everyone here is reading about thats happening in your head. we can see it. this is matter-of-fact and i do not claim to know you in any way or try to know you. outward observations are enough to make comment on. if i ruffle your feathers....then i hit a sore spot that needs some personal work on. ok?

ready?
lets go!

ive noticed thorughout the entire thread and every single response youve written...that the following exists:

tip 1: You believe that if everyones life path is not exactly mirrored to yours then they are inferrior to you and less of a person than you are. You believe that when someone does not agree with you 110% about what you deserve in aviation at this immediate moment, then they are now 'unbelieveable' and outstandingly wrong. You need to realize that the dues in aviation that people pay to get that job have NOTHING TO DO with previous life experiences. I will personally hire a 500 hour wunderpunk over you cause his outlook is not BITTER. Theres one BIG question thats asked in any interview, and that is "Tell us why we should hire you"...if you answer for this airline job is anything about your life and your rise to overcome your challenges then youll get the door immediately. they want you to demonstrate verbally just what you want to accomplish there and why they are the best for you and what your goal THERE is....anything else? go out the door and tuck your tail between your legs.

tip 2: If youre upset that alot of people in this world have better breaks than you do (ie: daddys money or the bridge programs) then go ahead and complain. But get ready to do it for 60+ more years as THIS IS HOW LIFE IS. it will never be equal footing for everyone. so you either need to get over it and accept it AND GET ON WITH LIFES WORK or shut up. and i mean it. cuase not a single person wants to be around a negative-nancy like you're currently demonstrating yourself to be. i mean really....go re-read your posts...its the most negative stuff ive seen in a while. complete turn off to anyone trying to hire you (and resume writer is correct BTW). the hiring staff can see through you if you dont put together a REALLY good resume. do you want to wind up on everyones "do not fly with" list? with that attitude you will be quickly. your attitude displayed here frankly sucks cock.


tip 3: Are you incapable of vocalizing the proper vocabulary to explain to your students what they should do? Do you have to resort to physical abuse when you can't think of what to say next to hopefully explain what the student should be doing? what this demonstrates to me is that this person cant make on the fly decisionmaking without resorting to rage and violence in the cockpit to solve the problem. gonna hit the captian instead of tell him hes consistantly a whole dot off? gonna hi the interview staff with a clipboard fi they dont like your answers? that is the lowest of the low un-professional tactics that have no place ANYWHERE in aviation. all you need is a pissed off mental student that retaliates IN FLIGHT...do you want that? keep it up then cause theres guys like that out there. are you so mad at the 'unfair' world that you must act in violence toward those that are appreciating what theyve been given? Students are not dogs. they understand english (most of em) and will understand what you want them to. if a student does not do what you tell them they need to do...its YOUR FAULT for not telling them clearly enough so they could understand....beating them is stupid. hear me?...its STUPID! ive flown with ALOT of students and soloed ALOT of students and fully trained ALOT of students. every single one of them did very well and all of them finished reasonably close to the minimum required time. not one required regular beatings and elbows to the guy to get them to fly well. do you think this increases morale? how could i get excited about going to go get beaten by my instructor today?

Tip 4: if i was your student....even a military one. shortly after a lesson youd be relieved immediately by your CO and you' also be wearing my skid-marked boxers as a hat with your clipboard up your a$$ crammed way up there with walnuts. you have no idea how furrious your tactic makes the majority of us feel.....and thats just those of us who care to comment.

Tip 5: You want that regional job. i didnt get mine till i have 3200 hours. and everyone in my class had alot of flight time. not a single one had what you have. GET MORE TIME.

Tip 5: if you get hit by a train, you deserve to get hit by a train.

there have been hires with low time. and those are just lucky ones. the majority of the new hires? HAVE AT LEAST TWICE THE TIME YOU DO AND A BUNCH OF IT TURBINE! GET MORE TIME! YOU HAEV NO ROOM TO COMPLAIN YET!!!


i do applaude you on overcomming your obstacles. i know its tough and ive had some breaks during low points in life that i was certianly lucky to have recieved and im eternally greatful for them. i do not trump them in peoples faces. i understand that part of things. i help others the same way i was helped when i can....do you want a job? ill help you if you need help. im in the position to present a good walk-in for a good solid resume at a good job with a caravan attached to someone who could use a lucky break like i got.....but with that attitude you can stick it. until you resolve it and cool down you get no help from me.

its how ive been seeing it. disagree? thats fine. i dont think of you any less or more for disagreeing.
(yes i know i have a lack of spelling prowess)

 

[Vik]

Mtnjam,

After reading everything you've had to say, I'm sorry to say that I have no sympathy at all.

I know PLENTY of ERAU and UND grads that took out massive loans, instructed for $12k/yr or whatever pathetic salary, lived on Ramen, got their 1000/100 or whatever the magic number was at the time, and got hired.

I dont know what dropping out of HS, and doing whatever you did had to do with getting to the airlines any faster.

Also, the regional classes are full of people that didn't go to UND and ERAU for the most part, so its not the UND or ERAU grads taking your job slots.

Anyway, you're complaining to deaf ears here .. many people went through and are going through the same sh!t you went through and I know whats on the mind of all of them .. "do you want some cheese with your whine?"

I nearly filed for bankruptcy in 2002, so I'll tell you, life's been f^ck'n bad for some of us too. Just keep plug'n away. Complaining and blaming others won't help. Its all up to you in the this career and everyone for the most part pays their dues, just like you. The percent that dont pay their dues aren't even 1% of the hired pilots at regionals.

 

[keith]

UND Grads

There will always be pilots who have had an easier path to the regionals. There will be captains that are 10 years younger than you. There will be plenty of pilots who have never been late on their loan payments, never skipped meals, never were broke two weeks before payday, etc.

While flying is an awesome job it is not your entire life. Get your income and self esteem somewhere else.

 

[bobbysamd]

There will always be pilots who have had an easier path to the regionals. There will be captains that are 10 years younger than you. There will be plenty of pilots who have never been late on their loan payments, never skipped meals, never were broke two weeks before payday, etc.

While flying is an awesome job it is not your entire life. Get your income and self esteem somewhere else.

(emphasis added)

Good comments, Keith. Good post.

 

[Justino]

Thanks for the USMC service.

Ok, you must understand whether your UND grad Riddle guy, Flight safety etc, FBO guy, we all work hard to get to the right and eventually left seat. The world is tough and you must sacrafice a lot to get what you want. SO those that have dad to help them out are luckier then some but dont discredit them for having those options as I am sure all of us would have taken such a good opportunity if presented with that choice! Can't beat a BS/BA and flying at the same time. Sure the "real world" has hardships and you have seen some of them. We have all seen them especially as CFI/MEI/CFII times and 135 flying freight at night in the ice! I remember those times. I too am aspiring to fly for the regionals. Work your ass off make connections and just do it. If you spend your time thinkink about "this sucks why can't i get hired with a 1k of time and 100 MEL" then you will not move forward. Spend your time with your students, fly more try for about 80-100 a month, advance your ratings/credentials -- get an ATP written done. Meet MEL pilots and see if you want to fly with them as a safety pilot or somtin.

DO NOT EVER: complain about the industry for which you are not in yet. If you think it sucks now think about the future when you are missing home on a lay over, get furloughed and how about REDEPLOYED.

Those that have gotten the jobs, flying whatever, are those that work hard and have patience. With a 1k + of time your goal should not be I want to fly a RJ now, it should be I need to gain a few hundred more hours to make myself competitve with the other guys out there. I need to impress the heck out of the interviewers by showing my diversity.

Your time will come you must have patience and one day you will be saying man I can't wait to retire from the left seat !

Good luck and keep up the hard work cause it will pay off just look around you.

~J

 

[Huck]

I am the definition of "the black sheep" and I love it.


I pounded out 17 years of flying, not a dime of daddy's money, came up through the civilian ranks from instructor in a Tomahawk to MD11 Captain (and back down again....) Difference between you and me: I wasn't too proud to go to the regionals. (BTW: Enjoy that self-righteousness, it may be all you get out of this business.) If you can't live on $20,000 a year, that sounds like a personal problem. (I could do it, tomorrow. Another lesson I've learned from aviation).

Lose the tude, pal. You ain't the only one paid dues around here. And with an attitude like that pasted above, you'll never get off top dead center. Humility is a wonderful thing. Find some.