HA vs. AS

[HAL]

...and to ad to this, with 48 hotel rooms a night in both HNL and OGG, don't be hugely surprised with a base on the islands at some point.

Mookie

For anyone expecting an Alaska base in Hawaii, remember that a somewhat small percentage of your flights go to HNL. More go to OGG, KOA, and LIH. If your pilots were based in HNL, how will they get to those flights? AK management going to pay for that many commuter seats every day to/from the outer islands on HA? Wouldn't that be more expensive than hotel rooms? Or would the union give in on 'satellite bases' and make the pilots find their own way to the outer islands to start a trip? What would happen then if the flights (and jumpseats) were full?

Jus' wondering...

HAL

 

[Mookie]

For anyone expecting an Alaska base in Hawaii, remember that a somewhat small percentage of your flights go to HNL. More go to OGG, KOA, and LIH. If your pilots were based in HNL, how will they get to those flights? AK management going to pay for that many commuter seats every day to/from the outer islands on HA? Wouldn't that be more expensive than hotel rooms? Or would the union give in on 'satellite bases' and make the pilots find their own way to the outer islands to start a trip? What would happen then if the flights (and jumpseats) were full?

Jus' wondering...

HAL

We do hnl and ogg out of BLI, Sea, pdx, smf, oak, sjc, and SAN now. Not saying its a great idea, but an islands base looks like a potential.

Mookie

 

[Ocity]

I have my stuff in...we'll see what happens. Some things have changed on my personal side that makes it possible where HA wasn't really an option before...we'll see.

It's true that AS's growth seems less scary, but that being said...it's also less scary to have more people under you on the seniority list when things go south.

AS is more financially sound then HA...for sure...AS pays cash for our new airplanes, HA is yet to secure financing on the remainging A330/A350's....we have much lower debt, "approaching Southwest levels" as one analyst put it. But to me that means that management at HA is on the same page as the pilots...this growth HAS to work. Because AS owns 30 airplanes outright and doesn't owe as much money...it's a no brainer for management to park them in the desert or sell them to Asia the minute things go south. All of this financial soundness/security has been great for the stockholders, but has not benefited the pilots one bit. We had 10% of our pilots on the street during a time that Alaska Airlines was THE MOST PROFITABLE it has ever been.



If I was hired this past December at HA, I would be at the same relative seniority that I am at Alaska now at over 5 years. If I were to get in one of these first few classes of this next push, I would be slightly better off in relative seniority at HA then I would be at AS in 2 years under managements current plans.

BUT...on the flip side...I hate interviewing, I don't want to go through another probation period, I'm just getting used to the idea of 21 days of vacation a year...not to mention the 100K+ financial loss over the first couple of years...although I do have a plan to mitigate that...what if the music stops before the two years is up.

BUT if similar management stays in place over the next 30 years, I see this continued strategy of anemic growth in airframes in good times with flat or even shrinking numbers of airframes...all while hitting managements target of 6% growth of ASM's. I think we will see another option exercise here in the next few months and I think it will be 900ER's and I think it will be to replace our remaining 700's and 400's. A 900ER has about FIFTY more seats than a 700. Can you say 5 more years of stagnation.

BUT the turtle beat the hare!

Ahhhh!!!!!!!!

I've got 9.5 years in and missed upgrade by just over 100 numbers on the last bid. This is assuming I'd be willing to sit reserve in ANC which hell would freeze over before I did that. I was planning on holding out until I could hold open flying in PDX or LAX so I'm guessing I'm about 4-5 years out still. Of course all of this can change as I sit here. The one thing I do know is Age 65 F'd all of us over. Make the move that you think will make you most happy. Trying to dissect all the minutiae in the financial details is completely pointless. It will all change. Period.

We've hit some really rough patches with the Eskimo over the last several years...Kasher nearly sunk this place, but over all, I'm blessed to be here. I believe we're on the right track and I absolutely believe that we now have the best CEO and exec.team we could have. I'd say we have a better shot at a bright, sustainable, viable future than most other pilot groups on the planet...for now. If you find that crystal ball on Ebay let me know.

 

[Stinkbug]

HA window closed?

Hawaiian Airlines' jobs page no longer showing an open position for flight crew. Just checked and thought I'd pass it along.

 

[Junkflyer]

The window closed on the 10th. Small class begins on the 25th, not sure how or when they were selected.

 

[igneousy2]

For anyone expecting an Alaska base in Hawaii, remember that a somewhat small percentage of your flights go to HNL. More go to OGG, KOA, and LIH. If your pilots were based in HNL, how will they get to those flights? AK management going to pay for that many commuter seats every day to/from the outer islands on HA? Wouldn't that be more expensive than hotel rooms? Or would the union give in on 'satellite bases' and make the pilots find their own way to the outer islands to start a trip? What would happen then if the flights (and jumpseats) were full?

Jus' wondering...

HAL

First off...our pilot group would never tolerate a co-base as you are describing...jumpseating to an assignment on an outer-island is a clear violation of our Jumpseat agreement with HA. This is not Mesa.

As far as a Hawaii base...there has been extensive talk of a reserve base in HNL or OGG as a CX costs over 30K or so management says. Also...AS hates to be late and a short sick call means a minimum of a 8-10 hours to get a reserve to Hawaii.

We are having a difficult time finding enough hotel rooms on Maui at a reasonable price as we are looking at our 3rd hotel there already.

HNL makes more sense from a reserve standpoint but a OGG base solves the hotel problem. If we do a Hawaii base it will be more to have the reserves in the islands.

 

[turbodriver]

As far as a Hawaii base...there has been extensive talk of a reserve base in HNL or OGG as a CX costs over 30K or so management says.

Whats your source?

 

[igneousy2]

Whats your source?

COO...I heard it about a year ago and it was repeated recently at a flight ops dog and pony show. Not to say that they are GOING to do one, but that they have been studying it as a reserve base and if they did it it would be more for the reserves than anything else. Also said as more flights were added it probably makes more and more sense. Take it for what it's worth, I heard they were studying a PDX base for 20 years (...note sarcasim) before it actually happened.

 

[Dan Roman]

Food for thought. If living in Hawaii is what is at stake and you are factoring in AK maybe having a Hi base.....Hawaiian you know you will always have that option. Every mainland airline that has ever had a crew base in Hawaii eventually closed it. Also, you would be limited to what ever you could hold at the small base and not be able to pursue the more options available at other domiciles. Unless you wanted to commute.
On one hand, at AK you could commute easily enough and bid trips to Hawaii, you're home getting per diem on work days, which isn't bad. We have quite a few pilots that commute to the NW and bid PDX layovers to be home. But on the other hand commuting is still a bummer.
I will say this, although I would be careful about giving up a number with AK to start over at any airline, all the airlines left will survive. The music has stopped with airline liquidations due to overcapacity and we (the handful of airlines left) are the ones left with a chair. Mergers are still possible but I really think HA and AK have a strong enough niche that we will both dodge that bullet. The reason AK's stock is doing so well is not because it's a potential takeover target, it's doing well because it has a strong niche as Alaska Airlines and is well managed.
I will say this, If you really want to live in Hawaii, any number with Hawaiian is a good one. Personally, I would rather be an F/O with Hawaiian than number one at any other airline, personal choice, but I am a lifestyle over money person.
Anyway, more food for thought to confuse you!

 

[Full of LUV]

Food for thought. If living in Hawaii is what is at stake and you are factoring in AK maybe having a Hi base.....Hawaiian you know you will always have that option. Every mainland airline that has ever had a crew base in Hawaii eventually closed it. Also, you would be limited to what ever you could hold at the small base and not be able to pursue the more options available at other domiciles. Unless you wanted to commute.
On one hand, at AK you could commute easily enough and bid trips to Hawaii, you're home getting per diem on work days, which isn't bad. We have quite a few pilots that commute to the NW and bid PDX layovers to be home. But on the other hand commuting is still a bummer.
I will say this, although I would be careful about giving up a number with AK to start over at any airline, all the airlines left will survive. The music has stopped with airline liquidations due to overcapacity and we (the handful of airlines left) are the ones left with a chair. Mergers are still possible but I really think HA and AK have a strong enough niche that we will both dodge that bullet. The reason AK's stock is doing so well is not because it's a potential takeover target, it's doing well because it has a strong niche as Alaska Airlines and is well managed.
I will say this, If you really want to live in Hawaii, any number with Hawaiian is a good one. Personally, I would rather be an F/O with Hawaiian than number one at any other airline, personal choice, but I am a lifestyle over money person.
Anyway, more food for thought to confuse you!

Now that is a strong testament! F/O at HAL vs #1 at any other airline!

Your right though if you have to live in Hawaii, there is no other option. The reason many had a Hawaii base and closed it (besides the expense) is because technology and equipment have made it obsolete.
My dad was a controller in HNL during the late 60's and 70's, and for awhile, HNL was among the busiest 24 hour airports in the world. Until the whale became the norm in the pacific, everyone had to stop in Hawaii on the way to the far east.

Bottom line in my opinion is the pain that will be felt going to Hawaii on a Guppy vs a widebody, which is quickly becoming the standard and will only be exasperated by the addition of SWA to Hawaii someday, will probably make commuting to/from the islands almost unbearable. Thank GOD HAL has maintained or appears to plan to maintain widebody service to the islands.
LUV

 

[Dan Roman]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/hawaiian-says-gday-brisbane-adding-190000982.html

 

[Mamma]

Now that is a strong testament! F/O at HAL vs #1 at any other airline!

Your right though if you have to live in Hawaii, there is no other option. The reason many had a Hawaii base and closed it (besides the expense) is because technology and equipment have made it obsolete.
My dad was a controller in HNL during the late 60's and 70's, and for awhile, HNL was among the busiest 24 hour airports in the world. Until the whale became the norm in the pacific, everyone had to stop in Hawaii on the way to the far east.

Bottom line in my opinion is the pain that will be felt going to Hawaii on a Guppy vs a widebody, which is quickly becoming the standard and will only be exasperated by the addition of SWA to Hawaii someday, will probably make commuting to/from the islands almost unbearable. Thank GOD HAL has maintained or appears to plan to maintain widebody service to the islands.
LUV

I've traveled on the 737-800 to Kauai and Oahu and it has been fine. Alaska has good pitch so I was not crammed in. I'm just saying I don't see where you are getting this "pain" and unbearable hardship flying a 73 to Hawaii.

 

[Old School 737]

I've traveled on the 737-800 to Kauai and Oahu and it has been fine. Alaska has good pitch so I was not crammed in. I'm just saying I don't see where you are getting this "pain" and unbearable hardship flying a 73 to Hawaii.

I think our new airplanes have some new Racarro seats and you end up with 1in more legroom than we have now.....

 

[Full of LUV]

I've traveled on the 737-800 to Kauai and Oahu and it has been fine. Alaska has good pitch so I was not crammed in. I'm just saying I don't see where you are getting this "pain" and unbearable hardship flying a 73 to Hawaii.

Jumpseat 737 vs Jumpseat 757/767 or A330.

There is a considerable difference, and you cant count on a seat in back to/from Hawaii all that often.

 

[Boxboy]

Fortunately for us, our excellent service makes up for the lack of a wide body jet. I agree though... as a passenger, given a choice between a wide body and a narrow body, I'd choose the biggin' for sure!