HA vs. AS

[igneousy2]

Tired of talking about the Delta TA so...

If you are/were looking at both AS and HA, what are the pro's/cons of each and which would you choose?

 

[fly4surf]

Which one gets bought by Delta first after the TA passes?

 

[Full of LUV]

Tired of talking about the Delta TA so...

If you are/were looking at both AS and HA, what are the pro's/cons of each and which would you choose?

Do you already live in Hawaii or really want to? If so HAL is an option, otherwise AS.

Different companies.... HAL is growing like gangbusters for the last 1.5 years with new A330's and destinations, but largely dependent on vacation travelers

AS has lucrative codeshares with multiple partners and has become AA and DAL's defacto feed for the west coast. Both would fight to keep that.

As poster #2 said, a merger could change everything, probably only UCH and HAL would be prevented from merging so anythings game.....

 

[SIG600]

Depends, which one has actually offered me a job?

Desicion made.

 

[Dan Roman]

Seems simple enough to me. If you want to live in Hawaii, HA, if you want to live on the west coast AK. No ones got a crystal ball as far as mergers go but I think both have a strong identity in the market that would be lost if DAL bought them ( the most commonly rumored merger partner). there are political reasons that could protect HA from a hostile takeover too. it would be a tough fight with the state of Hawaii if someone proposed absorbing and eliminating Hawaiian.
HA is getting 15 A 330's in the next 3 years and only parking a handfull of 767's. They have a very strong niche of being able to fill up a widebody with people that want to go to Hawaii on Hawaiian Air. It's a marketing cliche that your vacation in Hawaii starts when you get on the airplane, not when you get off. But it works, just got back from JFK, that market will be as successful for us as the Asia flights are doing. We are being very well received there.
I am hearing the next city will be Brisbane or just yesterday I heard BOS may be next.
We are hiring 95 more this year and they are saying 70 next from what I hear.

 

[igneousy2]

bases is easy...obviously if you have your heart set on a certain geography the choice is clear...


but what about the fact that HA is planning all of this crazy growth in the coming years while AS is all about keeping the fleet size relatively unchanged. Thank you for the 737-MAX Mr. Boeing.

HA and AS are planning to hire about the same number of pilots over the next 2 years it seems. The difference is that AS is 3 times the current size of Hawaiian so the impact on relative seniority is much greater.

Wide body Captain in 6 years for a new hire today?

Dan, you probably know...what time frame is the 90 pilots going to be hired from the last position bid. Is it within the next year or is it THIS year.

Also, in the event of a merger, would a pilot be better off at HA or AS? AS has overall better rates for NBs but they lack wide-bodies all together.

 

[CesnaCaptn]

but what about the fact that HA is planning all of this crazy growth in the coming years while AS is all about keeping the fleet size relatively unchanged. Thank you for the 737-MAX Mr. Boeing.

Are you being facetious about AS's fleet growth? Since this thread hasn't descended into the usual FI chaos, I thought I'd throw in the "planned" fleet growth over the next few years.

From the Alaskaair.com newsroom:

2012, net +6 ending with 123.

2013, net +6 ending with 129.

2014 net +3 ending with 132.

I know it's not explosive growth, but not insignificant. I haven't looked at actual numbers, but I'm willing to bet our aircraft utilization is way up too. We're seeing more and more redeys. If the utilization rate went from 11 hrs/day to 12 hrs/day that would be like adding another 10 airplanes to our fleet.

OTOH, our seniority list is smaller than it was in 2006 thanks to the new contract and single fleet.

Rumor has it the May bid was just a warmup. The next one will be much bigger.

I also heard the company approached the union about opening up satellite bases in the Bay Area, San Diego, and HNL. I'm sure the union said, "you can do that in accordance with our contract. Oh yah, there's no provision for that."

I've seen a few captains crack a smile with the prospect of a HNL base. I think that's the least likely of the three rumored bases, since the pay rates section of our contract would have to be reopened (not too much of a factor since the union and company are already negotiating), but even more prohibitive would be the expense of moving 50ish crews to open the base.

 

[Full of LUV]

Are you being facetious about AS's fleet growth? Since this thread hasn't descended into the usual FI chaos, I thought I'd throw in the "planned" fleet growth over the next few years.

From the Alaskaair.com newsroom:

2012, net +6 ending with 123.

2013, net +6 ending with 129.

2014 net +3 ending with 132.

I know it's not explosive growth, but not insignificant. I haven't looked at actual numbers, but I'm willing to bet our aircraft utilization is way up too. We're seeing more and more redeys. If the utilization rate went from 11 hrs/day to 12 hrs/day that would be like adding another 10 airplanes to our fleet.

OTOH, our seniority list is smaller than it was in 2006 thanks to the new contract and single fleet.

Rumor has it the May bid was just a warmup. The next one will be much bigger.

I also heard the company approached the union about opening up satellite bases in the Bay Area, San Diego, and HNL. I'm sure the union said, "you can do that in accordance with our contract. Oh yah, there's no provision for that."

I've seen a few captains crack a smile with the prospect of a HNL base. I think that's the least likely of the three rumored bases, since the pay rates section of our contract would have to be reopened (not too much of a factor since the union and company are already negotiating), but even more prohibitive would be the expense of moving 50ish crews to open the base.

Cessna,
Thanks for the update, although it's not polite to let facts get in the way with FI banter...... sounds like AS is on it's historic slow, steady, and conservative growth plan.

 

[General Lee]

Cessna,
Thanks for the update, although it's not polite to let facts get in the way with FI banter...... sounds like AS is on it's historic slow, steady, and conservative growth plan.

Notice VERY LITTLE overlap with Delta. The only routes that overlap are SEA to ATL, MSP, and HNL. That's it. ....



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[808pilot]

The 95 new hires will be spread out for the next 12 months... Roughly 8-10 per class every month from July to July.... I also just heard that Brisbane is 90% a sure thing and they are still looking at the another east coast dest....