I'm new to this forum and I'm hoping somebody has information about Gulfstream Academy and Gulfstream International Airlines. I have 3000 hours, most of it in AH-1s and AH-64s, and 150 MEL with a Commercial license with Instrument. I've completed the ATP written (98%). My question is..... Is their program worth the expense for someone in my shoes. Will it make enough difference in my hireability to justify the time and expense ($20,000)? I'll leave the course with 250 Multi Turbine time and experience in a part 121 operation. I'll would very much appreciate any advice or insights.
Welcome to Flightinfo.com
- Register now and join the discussion
- Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
- Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
- Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
- Share the passion for aviation
- Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun
Gulftstream Academy
- Thread starter soleary
- Start date
Welcome to Flightinfo.com
- Register now and join the discussion
- Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
- Invite your friends
- Share the passion of aviation
- Friendliest aviation community on the web
bobbysamd
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 5,710
Gulfstream International Academy
Also known as P-F-T.
Don't bother with Gulfstream. It's not for you. Save your money. Brush up on your airplane instrument skills, find a light twin and an examiner who can give ATP practicals, and knock off your ATP. Then start applying to regionals. You are a little light, multiwise, but I'd bet you can get an interview or two. It'll be better if you can do something flying airplanes for a few months. Better still, there are some 135 outfits that fly both airplanes and helicopters.
If the money is really burning a hole in your pocket, I'd go for all my airplane CFI ratings and a rotorcraft-helicopter CFI. The latter should be cake for you. Then, you'll have some good marketable credentials that'll get you work. Tax-deductable, I might add.
Do run a search on Gulfstream, as suggested above. Read all the posts pro and con to get a balanced viewpoint of the place.
Good luck with your decision.
Also known as P-F-T.
Don't bother with Gulfstream. It's not for you. Save your money. Brush up on your airplane instrument skills, find a light twin and an examiner who can give ATP practicals, and knock off your ATP. Then start applying to regionals. You are a little light, multiwise, but I'd bet you can get an interview or two. It'll be better if you can do something flying airplanes for a few months. Better still, there are some 135 outfits that fly both airplanes and helicopters.
If the money is really burning a hole in your pocket, I'd go for all my airplane CFI ratings and a rotorcraft-helicopter CFI. The latter should be cake for you. Then, you'll have some good marketable credentials that'll get you work. Tax-deductable, I might add.
Do run a search on Gulfstream, as suggested above. Read all the posts pro and con to get a balanced viewpoint of the place.
Good luck with your decision.
to mpower
In posting my ATP score I was trying to give people an idea of what my resume would look like so they could better assess my situation and give me more informed advice. Thank you so much for brilliantly thought out response. It was so helpful. I would have expected better from someone calling themselves "mpower". To the rest of you who are truly trying to be helpful, thank you very much.
In posting my ATP score I was trying to give people an idea of what my resume would look like so they could better assess my situation and give me more informed advice. Thank you so much for brilliantly thought out response. It was so helpful. I would have expected better from someone calling themselves "mpower". To the rest of you who are truly trying to be helpful, thank you very much.
publisher
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2001
- Posts
- 592
Easy answers
One thing that you did not give is your age... It is easy for people on these boards who have a philosophy to express it and usually they do without regard for examination of the individual/
You are a bit between a rock and a hole in the ground as you obviously have skills but much of it helicopter time. This is an age old issue and one I am asked about at every job fair or Women in Aviation type show.
To answer you in an appropriate way I would need a better handly on your personal situation. If you are older as I suspect and can, one of the accelerated programs to get you aircraft multi engine turbine time might well be for you, whether Gulfstream or another.
If you want to PM me more information as to your status, I will try to be more specific.
One thing that you did not give is your age... It is easy for people on these boards who have a philosophy to express it and usually they do without regard for examination of the individual/
You are a bit between a rock and a hole in the ground as you obviously have skills but much of it helicopter time. This is an age old issue and one I am asked about at every job fair or Women in Aviation type show.
To answer you in an appropriate way I would need a better handly on your personal situation. If you are older as I suspect and can, one of the accelerated programs to get you aircraft multi engine turbine time might well be for you, whether Gulfstream or another.
If you want to PM me more information as to your status, I will try to be more specific.
Timebuilder
Entrepreneur
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2001
- Posts
- 4,625
Soleary-
As you may already have surmised, a great many of us have a differing view of Gulfstream compared to that of Publisher.
I recommend a second pot of coffee as you read the results of your search. You will find logic, emotion, and the main players: "traditional learning experiences, values, and professional ethics" versus "displacing what would otherwise be a job for a paid employee, paying to accelerate your career by getting hired sooner therefore a better seniority number, and being seen as one who takes shortcuts" in most of the posts.
We'll report, you decide.
As you may already have surmised, a great many of us have a differing view of Gulfstream compared to that of Publisher.
I recommend a second pot of coffee as you read the results of your search. You will find logic, emotion, and the main players: "traditional learning experiences, values, and professional ethics" versus "displacing what would otherwise be a job for a paid employee, paying to accelerate your career by getting hired sooner therefore a better seniority number, and being seen as one who takes shortcuts" in most of the posts.
We'll report, you decide.
publisher
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2001
- Posts
- 592
time
timebuilder,
As I said in my private message to this fellow, after learning more about his personal situtation, he is a candidate for a program that provides him multi engine turbine time.
That may not be Gulfstream, nor did I recommend them. The fact is that he has some 3000 hours of total time. The CFI route is not appropriate for this individual. As his age, the clock is ticking and an accelerated program plus a year or two with someone like Airnet may be all required to get to his goal.
These military helo pilots are in a bind. If I grant you that Gulfstream is PFT, he could still go to Tab or someone else strickly for the time.
timebuilder,
As I said in my private message to this fellow, after learning more about his personal situtation, he is a candidate for a program that provides him multi engine turbine time.
That may not be Gulfstream, nor did I recommend them. The fact is that he has some 3000 hours of total time. The CFI route is not appropriate for this individual. As his age, the clock is ticking and an accelerated program plus a year or two with someone like Airnet may be all required to get to his goal.
These military helo pilots are in a bind. If I grant you that Gulfstream is PFT, he could still go to Tab or someone else strickly for the time.
flydog
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2001
- Posts
- 542
Why does he need a program to build multi turbine time? He seems well qualified for a right seat jet or turboprop job without having to buy his way in.
Send out some resumes to everyone and anyone that operates 135 jets and turboprops. Dont break out the helo and airplane time on your resume. Odds are they wont ask and I have never had an employer ask for my logbooks (airlines excluded) You should get plenty of calls
Send out some resumes to everyone and anyone that operates 135 jets and turboprops. Dont break out the helo and airplane time on your resume. Odds are they wont ask and I have never had an employer ask for my logbooks (airlines excluded) You should get plenty of calls
Anaconda
FLY ARMY!
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2001
- Posts
- 594
no offense to my fellow helo driver, but as others have pointed out you must not have searched very far on this board for info about gulfstream. this board is littered with houndreds of opinions about that program, and others like it.
take the time to read them and formulate your own opinion. i have seen people find some measure of success by going down that path, but obviously at great expense. even post-9/11 helo drivers with a couple hundred hours of light-twin multi are being hired, even at regionals such as aca.
have you not browsed the message boards at www.aptap.org? you will find a crowd more in tune with your background that may be able to give you more appropriate advice for your situation.
good luck!
take the time to read them and formulate your own opinion. i have seen people find some measure of success by going down that path, but obviously at great expense. even post-9/11 helo drivers with a couple hundred hours of light-twin multi are being hired, even at regionals such as aca.
have you not browsed the message boards at www.aptap.org? you will find a crowd more in tune with your background that may be able to give you more appropriate advice for your situation.
good luck!
Checks
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2001
- Posts
- 447
Before you go the Gulfstream route 1st Go to every airport in the general area you want to live and hand out resumes. Talk to the line guys about who is who. Go back at night and do the same thing. Go back in a couple more weeks. Get your CFI and instruct part time while your still in the Army.
You do need to get the minimum amount of FWME time but there are better routes than paying 20K for it. I cant remember if you said they pay you during the building of your 250hrs but dont forget living expenses and where they might send you. I cant think of anything that would piss me off me than having to pay for flight time than to also have to pay for the hotel/crash pad, meals, uniforms, phone calls home, ect ect. I know of a guy with the same quals as you who went straight into the right seat of a Lear flying checks 4 nights a week. About 1 year later he went to work for a big corporation making nice money.
You do need to get the minimum amount of FWME time but there are better routes than paying 20K for it. I cant remember if you said they pay you during the building of your 250hrs but dont forget living expenses and where they might send you. I cant think of anything that would piss me off me than having to pay for flight time than to also have to pay for the hotel/crash pad, meals, uniforms, phone calls home, ect ect. I know of a guy with the same quals as you who went straight into the right seat of a Lear flying checks 4 nights a week. About 1 year later he went to work for a big corporation making nice money.
bobbysamd
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 5,710
Confused
Doesn't rotor turbine time count as turbine time? I know there is some kind of technicality that you can't count multi engine helicopter as multi engine time.
I agree with Flydog, although, as I said above, our gentleman, in my .02, could stand another couple hundred of multi airplane, in ANY multi airplane, just so he would be competitive at this point in time. A year and a half ago - two years ago, he would have been snapped right up by any one of half a dozen commuters.
I remember that Mesa used to like ex-military with similar quals.
Doesn't rotor turbine time count as turbine time? I know there is some kind of technicality that you can't count multi engine helicopter as multi engine time.
I agree with Flydog, although, as I said above, our gentleman, in my .02, could stand another couple hundred of multi airplane, in ANY multi airplane, just so he would be competitive at this point in time. A year and a half ago - two years ago, he would have been snapped right up by any one of half a dozen commuters.
I remember that Mesa used to like ex-military with similar quals.
3
350DRIVER
" "So the "CFI route" is not for him so he should "buy" turbine time" ".....hmmm.- Once again as the others have said make a third pot of coffee and read some other threads concerning Gulfstream. Age is not at issue it is more of a copout in my opinion, there are many many other alternatives for you if you just take the time to do the research. I wish you the best of luck and everything else....
to anaconda
Thanks to everyone for their input. I have about 6 months to retirement from the Army and am now in the process of doing research, as so many of you suggested. Nobody in my circle knows much about any of this so I am looking for all the input I can get, from any source I can find. It's very frustrating to learn that the 20 years I spent flying all over the world, in a very demanding environment and in a very demanding aircraft, doesn't amount to "paying my dues". I would challenge the CFI time builders to try it that way and see if they don't see things differently. To answer your question Anaconda, I haven't made any decisions yet. I have to balance the short time scale I have to work with against the stigma that is attached to this route.
Thanks to everyone for their input. I have about 6 months to retirement from the Army and am now in the process of doing research, as so many of you suggested. Nobody in my circle knows much about any of this so I am looking for all the input I can get, from any source I can find. It's very frustrating to learn that the 20 years I spent flying all over the world, in a very demanding environment and in a very demanding aircraft, doesn't amount to "paying my dues". I would challenge the CFI time builders to try it that way and see if they don't see things differently. To answer your question Anaconda, I haven't made any decisions yet. I have to balance the short time scale I have to work with against the stigma that is attached to this route.
Timebuilder
Entrepreneur
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2001
- Posts
- 4,625
Let's see.
You have over three thousand hours in turbine powered aircraft.
You can easily hook into the military pilots network for job hunting.
You are younger than I am.
It seems that I, a "CFI time builder", would have a better excuse than you do for going the PFT route.
We have simply tried to give you a good heads-up on the SOP for civilian pilot jobs.
With helo experience, and the challenging flying you have under your belt, why in the world don't you exploit that with a civilian helo job? There are many outstanding aircraft to be flown, and you could be just the guy they would like to have on their team.
If you like, I can send you some links when I return from sun n fun/job search this week.
At any rate, good luck.
You have over three thousand hours in turbine powered aircraft.
You can easily hook into the military pilots network for job hunting.
You are younger than I am.
It seems that I, a "CFI time builder", would have a better excuse than you do for going the PFT route.
We have simply tried to give you a good heads-up on the SOP for civilian pilot jobs.
With helo experience, and the challenging flying you have under your belt, why in the world don't you exploit that with a civilian helo job? There are many outstanding aircraft to be flown, and you could be just the guy they would like to have on their team.
If you like, I can send you some links when I return from sun n fun/job search this week.
At any rate, good luck.
bobbysamd
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 5,710
Paying dues v. "paying" dues
I fail to see a stigma to what you've accomplished. No one doubts that you've paid your dues. No one wants to see you "pay" them again.
Three thousand hours of military turbine time is a great qual in and of itself. I maintain that with your current quals you can get some regional interviews right now. You would be in a stronger position if you had more airplane multiengine, but I don't feel that you are in a weak position. In any event, you should finish your ATP.
Good luck with your plans.
I fail to see a stigma to what you've accomplished. No one doubts that you've paid your dues. No one wants to see you "pay" them again.
Three thousand hours of military turbine time is a great qual in and of itself. I maintain that with your current quals you can get some regional interviews right now. You would be in a stronger position if you had more airplane multiengine, but I don't feel that you are in a weak position. In any event, you should finish your ATP.
Good luck with your plans.
Last edited:
Anaconda
FLY ARMY!
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2001
- Posts
- 594
what stigma?
honestly, coming from comair, i can tell you that you would not get an interview with 200 multi in the current climate. you have to have 121 or 135 time in turbine acft (fixed-wing).
i spoke to a comair interview just the other day. he told me what they are looking for, and he mentioned that they are hiring gulfstream guys quite a bit. doesn't sound like a stigma to me. i point blank asked him if they are cool with guys going out and buying 250 hours in a metroliner and he was very enthusiastic about it. it's the difference between getting the job or not getting the job.
i wouldn't worry about any "stigma". helo guys with half your time that "bought" time in a metroliner or something similar are getting jobs at comair while the cfi's are sweating it out in the tomahawk or 152. seniority is everything in this industry.
there are other options besides gulfstream. i've read about them on this board. eagle jet i think is one of them. sorry, i don't know all the names. respectable operations that don't get as much negative flak as gulfstream.
when i was in your shoes i consulted several cfi's at the school i went to and they all said the same thing. given the credentials i had they all said they would "buy" time as opposed to being an instructor. i'm not knocking the cfi profession at all you just have to consider your own personal situation.
again, i invite you to check out www.aptap.org. i believe you will find it to be educational as well as motivational. there are a lot of guys out there in the same situation as you.
honestly, coming from comair, i can tell you that you would not get an interview with 200 multi in the current climate. you have to have 121 or 135 time in turbine acft (fixed-wing).
i spoke to a comair interview just the other day. he told me what they are looking for, and he mentioned that they are hiring gulfstream guys quite a bit. doesn't sound like a stigma to me. i point blank asked him if they are cool with guys going out and buying 250 hours in a metroliner and he was very enthusiastic about it. it's the difference between getting the job or not getting the job.
i wouldn't worry about any "stigma". helo guys with half your time that "bought" time in a metroliner or something similar are getting jobs at comair while the cfi's are sweating it out in the tomahawk or 152. seniority is everything in this industry.
there are other options besides gulfstream. i've read about them on this board. eagle jet i think is one of them. sorry, i don't know all the names. respectable operations that don't get as much negative flak as gulfstream.
when i was in your shoes i consulted several cfi's at the school i went to and they all said the same thing. given the credentials i had they all said they would "buy" time as opposed to being an instructor. i'm not knocking the cfi profession at all you just have to consider your own personal situation.
again, i invite you to check out www.aptap.org. i believe you will find it to be educational as well as motivational. there are a lot of guys out there in the same situation as you.
Last edited:
aero99
just a member, not senior
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 394
I don't support or even get involved with the whole PFT issue and companies like Gulfstream. But, if you are getting out of the military, your GI Bill will pay for part 141 training. I looked into it briefly a while back, so don't know the qualifications, but seems you might be able to go to a school such as ATP and build up some multi training and have Uncle Sam pay for most of it. I don't remember the % they would pay, but seems like it was high, like 65% of the total training bill.
Maybe someone here went that route and can give better answers on how do go about it.
Just a thought no one brought up yet.
Bobby, do you remember any of your students having used the Gi Bill to help pay training cost?
Maybe someone here went that route and can give better answers on how do go about it.
Just a thought no one brought up yet.
Bobby, do you remember any of your students having used the Gi Bill to help pay training cost?
DCitrus9
Son of a son of a sailor
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 273
"It's very frustrating to learn that the 20 years I spent flying all over the world, in a very demanding environment and in a very demanding aircraft, doesn't amount to "paying my dues". "
You have definitely paid your dues and gathered a great deal of experience. You seem to be in a position to be hired. Why then would you pay someone to allow you to fly? It seems kind of odd doesn't it? There are jobs flying airplanes and helos in which you will be paid. They are scarce right now, but I encourage you to find them and avoid pft programs. Best of luck.
You have definitely paid your dues and gathered a great deal of experience. You seem to be in a position to be hired. Why then would you pay someone to allow you to fly? It seems kind of odd doesn't it? There are jobs flying airplanes and helos in which you will be paid. They are scarce right now, but I encourage you to find them and avoid pft programs. Best of luck.
bobbysamd
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 5,710
G.I. Bill
Aero99 is correct. When I was at MAPD in 1993, there were several students who were using G.I. Bill benefits to pay for their training. I recall of at least a couple who were Gulf War vets. I had one student who had been in the AF in Germany who did not serve in the Gulf War. I had another student at Mesa who was a rated Army helo pilot. He had a Commercial with rotorcraft-helicopter and instrument-helicopter. As far as I knew, all of these people were using the G.I. Bill to pay for their training.
By the way, MAPD is not P-F-T. The people who go through MAPD are ab initio students and are not hired by Mesa at enrollment. Compare it to Comair, except that MAPD grads do not have to instruct before getting their interviews.
Eagle Jet International has drawn plenty of reaction here. Try running a search on it.
Aero99 is correct. When I was at MAPD in 1993, there were several students who were using G.I. Bill benefits to pay for their training. I recall of at least a couple who were Gulf War vets. I had one student who had been in the AF in Germany who did not serve in the Gulf War. I had another student at Mesa who was a rated Army helo pilot. He had a Commercial with rotorcraft-helicopter and instrument-helicopter. As far as I knew, all of these people were using the G.I. Bill to pay for their training.
By the way, MAPD is not P-F-T. The people who go through MAPD are ab initio students and are not hired by Mesa at enrollment. Compare it to Comair, except that MAPD grads do not have to instruct before getting their interviews.
Eagle Jet International has drawn plenty of reaction here. Try running a search on it.
bobbysamd
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 5,710
Gotta try
Doesn't it depend in large measure to the amount of airplane time? I can understand it if the folks in question have less than 100 of multiengine airplane. Our poster, with 150, isn't that far away.
I think the answer is to send out resumes and await results. I know that it is hard for high helo time-low airplane time pilots to break in with the majors, especially now. But, if the regionals will hire with 200 hours of multi, I think it is worth a try. Nonetheless, it is my feeling that at least 300-500 multi will be more competitive.
I wanted to clarify two points in my post above. In 1993, MAPD was a 141 school. I doubt that has changed. My Army helo student was low-time, something like 300 hours in the Reserves or Guards, but all in rotorcraft before he came to Mesa.
Once again, the helo experience stands one in good stead. My first instrument student was an ex-Huey pilot who did just fine for me in the airplane. He was only my second student, so we flew extra just (for me) to be sure.
Doesn't it depend in large measure to the amount of airplane time? I can understand it if the folks in question have less than 100 of multiengine airplane. Our poster, with 150, isn't that far away.
I think the answer is to send out resumes and await results. I know that it is hard for high helo time-low airplane time pilots to break in with the majors, especially now. But, if the regionals will hire with 200 hours of multi, I think it is worth a try. Nonetheless, it is my feeling that at least 300-500 multi will be more competitive.
I wanted to clarify two points in my post above. In 1993, MAPD was a 141 school. I doubt that has changed. My Army helo student was low-time, something like 300 hours in the Reserves or Guards, but all in rotorcraft before he came to Mesa.
Once again, the helo experience stands one in good stead. My first instrument student was an ex-Huey pilot who did just fine for me in the airplane. He was only my second student, so we flew extra just (for me) to be sure.
skiddriver
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2001
- Posts
- 405
Soleary,
I have an admitted bias for attack guys (3000 hrs AH-1 time here) so I'll share my experience.
I have a marginally more total time than you. My FW time is 750, my ME Turbine is 600. Okay, that's more than you do. I lucked out on my last tour and got C-12's.
But my point is, that with a preponderance of helo time, in the last two post 9-11 months, I've gotten job offers from Comair and Piedmont, and an interview invite from EJA.
Your experience does count for something. You just need to get the numbers required to get an interview. How to do that?
First, find a 141 school that takes GI Bill and get all of your fixed wing ratings. I have a CFI SEL that I'm never going to use in anger. But Uncle Sammy paid for almost all of it, including 60% of the 40 hours of flight time it took. Max out those hours. You'll not only expand your logbook, you'll learn something.
Then... buy some time. I got lucky and got my last tour in C-12's. You didn't. Make up the difference. If you're retiring from the military, you're somewhere between 38 and 50 something. You don't have a bunch of time to Richard around. You should have some money stashed away however. Use it however you see fit. It's your money, it's your life, it's your career. You spent 20+ years busting your nut for your country; it's time to take care of yourself and your family.
Good luck and thanks for your honorable service. I wish you an enjoyable and rewarding second career.
Semper fi,
Travis
21 days...
I have an admitted bias for attack guys (3000 hrs AH-1 time here) so I'll share my experience.
I have a marginally more total time than you. My FW time is 750, my ME Turbine is 600. Okay, that's more than you do. I lucked out on my last tour and got C-12's.
But my point is, that with a preponderance of helo time, in the last two post 9-11 months, I've gotten job offers from Comair and Piedmont, and an interview invite from EJA.
Your experience does count for something. You just need to get the numbers required to get an interview. How to do that?
First, find a 141 school that takes GI Bill and get all of your fixed wing ratings. I have a CFI SEL that I'm never going to use in anger. But Uncle Sammy paid for almost all of it, including 60% of the 40 hours of flight time it took. Max out those hours. You'll not only expand your logbook, you'll learn something.
Then... buy some time. I got lucky and got my last tour in C-12's. You didn't. Make up the difference. If you're retiring from the military, you're somewhere between 38 and 50 something. You don't have a bunch of time to Richard around. You should have some money stashed away however. Use it however you see fit. It's your money, it's your life, it's your career. You spent 20+ years busting your nut for your country; it's time to take care of yourself and your family.
Good luck and thanks for your honorable service. I wish you an enjoyable and rewarding second career.
Semper fi,
Travis
21 days...
bobbysamd
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 5,710
G.I. Bill and Flight Training
Very constructive post above, especially the suggestion about using G.I. Bill benies on the fixed-wing ratings.
In that regard, I'd look for a 141 school that provides the most multi hours possible. Then, you'll get some real bang for Uncle Sam's buck. For example, All ATPs, http://www.allatps.com . Run a search on the board for opinions. It's firehose training, but someone with your experience should be able to handle it. Plenty of people here have raved about the place. The program most discussed is the zero time to MEI in 90 days for $32K. You just want to be sure your school is a 14 CFR 141 for your G.I. benies.
Once again, there are dozens of companies who would love to have someone like you. Good luck with your decisions.
PS-I just read the thread on Comair and hiring at low times. There was a post that Commutair was interviewing at 100 multi. Of course, a lot of what you see is hearsay, but it seemed worthy of mention.
Very constructive post above, especially the suggestion about using G.I. Bill benies on the fixed-wing ratings.
In that regard, I'd look for a 141 school that provides the most multi hours possible. Then, you'll get some real bang for Uncle Sam's buck. For example, All ATPs, http://www.allatps.com . Run a search on the board for opinions. It's firehose training, but someone with your experience should be able to handle it. Plenty of people here have raved about the place. The program most discussed is the zero time to MEI in 90 days for $32K. You just want to be sure your school is a 14 CFR 141 for your G.I. benies.
Once again, there are dozens of companies who would love to have someone like you. Good luck with your decisions.
PS-I just read the thread on Comair and hiring at low times. There was a post that Commutair was interviewing at 100 multi. Of course, a lot of what you see is hearsay, but it seemed worthy of mention.
Last edited:
starchkr
New Bus driver
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 1,065
I will have to agree with the reply above that asks why you don't just stay with helo's. With the kind of time and experience you have in them, i would think any of them would snatch you up in a minute. I am sure they get paid pretty well to do what they do.
There are two companies that i know of that fly helo's from HOU (there are more, i only know of these two though), one is TEX-AIR HELICOPTERS and the other i cannot recall off the top of my head, but it is the next hangar over from Tex-Air. Tex-Air (while i don't know exactly what they do) flys some really BEAUTIFUL Eurocopters. I watch them take in some old faded paint job bird and literally strip it down and replace everthing with new equipment, and then they paint them in some awesome colors and scheme's. I know they own most of them, because they put their logo on the sides, and i am sure if they were just refurb'ing them and selling them they wouldn't do that. Anyway, that is one place to try, and i still cannot recall the other one, but i know they fly long rangers and they have a really nice Bell 222.
Aside from those two, i know there are many oil rig operators in the area, along with many more along the gulf coast. Plus you can try the medical operators... that's what i always wanted to do if i was going to fly helicopters.
I guess like it was said above, there are just so many operators out there with helo's that i would at least try them first, and then if that is just a deadend then think about other options.
Oh yeah, by the way, if you really HAVE to do the pft thing, look other places besides the two that continually come up on this board. I know of at least a couple that you can get twice as many multi turbine hours at for the same if not less than the price of the "infamous" two above. Do some deeper research and you too will find them. But just to save my own rear from the criticism of the others on the board i must now say that " I DO NOT AGREE WITH PFT." Whew, saved just in the nick of time.
Good luck with your future plans, and who knows in six months things could be completely different.
There are two companies that i know of that fly helo's from HOU (there are more, i only know of these two though), one is TEX-AIR HELICOPTERS and the other i cannot recall off the top of my head, but it is the next hangar over from Tex-Air. Tex-Air (while i don't know exactly what they do) flys some really BEAUTIFUL Eurocopters. I watch them take in some old faded paint job bird and literally strip it down and replace everthing with new equipment, and then they paint them in some awesome colors and scheme's. I know they own most of them, because they put their logo on the sides, and i am sure if they were just refurb'ing them and selling them they wouldn't do that. Anyway, that is one place to try, and i still cannot recall the other one, but i know they fly long rangers and they have a really nice Bell 222.
Aside from those two, i know there are many oil rig operators in the area, along with many more along the gulf coast. Plus you can try the medical operators... that's what i always wanted to do if i was going to fly helicopters.
I guess like it was said above, there are just so many operators out there with helo's that i would at least try them first, and then if that is just a deadend then think about other options.
Oh yeah, by the way, if you really HAVE to do the pft thing, look other places besides the two that continually come up on this board. I know of at least a couple that you can get twice as many multi turbine hours at for the same if not less than the price of the "infamous" two above. Do some deeper research and you too will find them. But just to save my own rear from the criticism of the others on the board i must now say that " I DO NOT AGREE WITH PFT." Whew, saved just in the nick of time.
Good luck with your future plans, and who knows in six months things could be completely different.
thanks again
Again, thanks to all who have participated in this discussion. Let me clarify a few concepts that many have been going with, but that don't apply to me.
I entered the service during that short time when there was NO G.I. Bill or anything else for that matter. So any training I take comes straight out of my pocket. I seriously need the best bang for my buck.
I looked into the helicopter route, but the hiring is as slow now as the airlines and the pay is worse. The best I could find around CAPPED OUT at $45,000 a year after 10 YEARS! Of course they aren't even accepting resumes.
As for helicopter time counting, it depends. Some places count it as total time only, the turbine time doesn't count at all. I look just like somebody with 3000 hours in a 152, except it's not even as good as a 152 because it's not in a fixed wing. Other places do count it, so there is no hard and fast answer, though the trend is towards the first. I had one guy tell me he would rather I had the 152 time.
BTW What is it about helicopter time that is so undervalued? Is it the two annual checkrides we must take? Is it the hours spent flying around at night less than 200 feet off the trees at over 100 knots? Is it the fact that I have to maintain instrument proficiency even though I'm not flying an instrument legal aircraft? Is it the fact that I've had to do all this in foriegn countries with no ATC and no other assistance all while people are shooting at me? Or is it the fact that in an attack aircraft like the AH-64 simply flying the aircraft in these types of environments is expected to be second nature so that I can focus my mind on the tactical situation and try not to get myself or my crew killed. Or even worse accidently killing another American on the ground with my weapons. Somebody please explain to me how this is such worthless training in aircraft handling, CRM, decision making and stress management as to be uncountable!
I'm sorry. Sour grapes. I just had to get it off my chest. Please forgive me.
Lastly, since I already have Commercial w/Instrument in MEL and Helicopter I don't really want to spend time and money at a school who's aim is to get you those ratings. I could probably knock out the remaining 70 hours of MEL time I need to take the ATP practical this summer if that's the best route for me. But is it? That will put me at the BARE MINIMUM of 200 hours MEL to get someone to even look at my resume. In today's climate I don't think that's enough. The AVERAGE times for new hires are much higher then that. I feel that the chances are that 200 hrs MEL and an ATP won't get me very far.
I know a lot of you have prejudices against PFTs like Gulfstream because you feel it lets somebody shortcut in front of you. My question to those people is this; In my specific circumstance do you see room for compromise and understanding? I have put 20 years in to this profession already, do I really have to avoid shortcuts at this time in my career because I will jump ahead of somebody who has been at it for 15? Since my helicopter time is not counted for the most part, at this point I am really 20 years BEHIND the pilot who has those ratings and is building time. What's wrong with trying to catch up some?
No, I haven't made up my mind yet what to do. I am still asking for as much input as I can get. Does anybody have specific alternatives they would like to suggest to me. I am open to any opinion or advice.
Thanks again.
Again, thanks to all who have participated in this discussion. Let me clarify a few concepts that many have been going with, but that don't apply to me.
I entered the service during that short time when there was NO G.I. Bill or anything else for that matter. So any training I take comes straight out of my pocket. I seriously need the best bang for my buck.
I looked into the helicopter route, but the hiring is as slow now as the airlines and the pay is worse. The best I could find around CAPPED OUT at $45,000 a year after 10 YEARS! Of course they aren't even accepting resumes.
As for helicopter time counting, it depends. Some places count it as total time only, the turbine time doesn't count at all. I look just like somebody with 3000 hours in a 152, except it's not even as good as a 152 because it's not in a fixed wing. Other places do count it, so there is no hard and fast answer, though the trend is towards the first. I had one guy tell me he would rather I had the 152 time.
BTW What is it about helicopter time that is so undervalued? Is it the two annual checkrides we must take? Is it the hours spent flying around at night less than 200 feet off the trees at over 100 knots? Is it the fact that I have to maintain instrument proficiency even though I'm not flying an instrument legal aircraft? Is it the fact that I've had to do all this in foriegn countries with no ATC and no other assistance all while people are shooting at me? Or is it the fact that in an attack aircraft like the AH-64 simply flying the aircraft in these types of environments is expected to be second nature so that I can focus my mind on the tactical situation and try not to get myself or my crew killed. Or even worse accidently killing another American on the ground with my weapons. Somebody please explain to me how this is such worthless training in aircraft handling, CRM, decision making and stress management as to be uncountable!
I'm sorry. Sour grapes. I just had to get it off my chest. Please forgive me.
Lastly, since I already have Commercial w/Instrument in MEL and Helicopter I don't really want to spend time and money at a school who's aim is to get you those ratings. I could probably knock out the remaining 70 hours of MEL time I need to take the ATP practical this summer if that's the best route for me. But is it? That will put me at the BARE MINIMUM of 200 hours MEL to get someone to even look at my resume. In today's climate I don't think that's enough. The AVERAGE times for new hires are much higher then that. I feel that the chances are that 200 hrs MEL and an ATP won't get me very far.
I know a lot of you have prejudices against PFTs like Gulfstream because you feel it lets somebody shortcut in front of you. My question to those people is this; In my specific circumstance do you see room for compromise and understanding? I have put 20 years in to this profession already, do I really have to avoid shortcuts at this time in my career because I will jump ahead of somebody who has been at it for 15? Since my helicopter time is not counted for the most part, at this point I am really 20 years BEHIND the pilot who has those ratings and is building time. What's wrong with trying to catch up some?
No, I haven't made up my mind yet what to do. I am still asking for as much input as I can get. Does anybody have specific alternatives they would like to suggest to me. I am open to any opinion or advice.
Thanks again.
Ty Webb
Hostage to Fortune
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2001
- Posts
- 6,524
The problem with Gulfstream is this-
Gulfstream would have to hire, train and pay pilots to be F/O's, if it were not for people who are willing to "rent" the F/O seat for 250 hours. In other words, if you go along with this program, you will be helping them turn an entry-level position into just another aircraft rental.
While you may think that it is justified in your particular circumstance, rest assured that everyone else there thinks they are justified, too. And, for what it is worth, a scab uses the same argument to justify crossing the picket line. I'm not saying that renting an F/O seat at Gulfstream is scabbing, but it is definitely pursuing a selfish path to the detriment of the professional pilot community.
My advice to you is this- take $3500. and get yourself a cheap Citation type (with an ATP!) from that guy out in Carlsbad. FInd a Citation operator in your area, and get some SIC time. That time will be adequate for any regional, and, if the regionals are slow to call, you may end up in the left seat pretty soon, making more than you will at a regional, and getting jet time. Additionally, you will have saved yourself $15,000. and did not help contribute to what is, at best, a questionable practice.
By the way, have you talked, and I mean seriously talked, to anyone who is a recent F/O at the regionals? Because it is hard enough to be sititing reserve for the better part of a year, maintaining a crash pad, etc. on $21,000. per year, without having just spent $18,500. in a misguided attempt to get there sooner!??!
I have a number of friends at both ASA and Comair who were primarily helicopter pilots- (one post 9/11). It will happen for you if you have a little patience.
Gulfstream would have to hire, train and pay pilots to be F/O's, if it were not for people who are willing to "rent" the F/O seat for 250 hours. In other words, if you go along with this program, you will be helping them turn an entry-level position into just another aircraft rental.
While you may think that it is justified in your particular circumstance, rest assured that everyone else there thinks they are justified, too. And, for what it is worth, a scab uses the same argument to justify crossing the picket line. I'm not saying that renting an F/O seat at Gulfstream is scabbing, but it is definitely pursuing a selfish path to the detriment of the professional pilot community.
My advice to you is this- take $3500. and get yourself a cheap Citation type (with an ATP!) from that guy out in Carlsbad. FInd a Citation operator in your area, and get some SIC time. That time will be adequate for any regional, and, if the regionals are slow to call, you may end up in the left seat pretty soon, making more than you will at a regional, and getting jet time. Additionally, you will have saved yourself $15,000. and did not help contribute to what is, at best, a questionable practice.
By the way, have you talked, and I mean seriously talked, to anyone who is a recent F/O at the regionals? Because it is hard enough to be sititing reserve for the better part of a year, maintaining a crash pad, etc. on $21,000. per year, without having just spent $18,500. in a misguided attempt to get there sooner!??!
I have a number of friends at both ASA and Comair who were primarily helicopter pilots- (one post 9/11). It will happen for you if you have a little patience.
Last edited:
Share this page
Latest resources
-
-
-
-
-
AC 90-89C - Amateur-Built Aircraft and Ultralight Flight Testing HandbookAmateur-Built Aircraft and Ultralight Flight Testing Handbook
- Neal
- Updated:
