I'm new to this forum and I'm hoping somebody has information about Gulfstream Academy and Gulfstream International Airlines. I have 3000 hours, most of it in AH-1s and AH-64s, and 150 MEL with a Commercial license with Instrument. I've completed the ATP written (98%). My question is..... Is their program worth the expense for someone in my shoes. Will it make enough difference in my hireability to justify the time and expense ($20,000)? I'll leave the course with 250 Multi Turbine time and experience in a part 121 operation. I'll would very much appreciate any advice or insights.
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Gulftstream Academy
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bobbysamd
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Gulfstream International Academy
Also known as P-F-T.
Don't bother with Gulfstream. It's not for you. Save your money. Brush up on your airplane instrument skills, find a light twin and an examiner who can give ATP practicals, and knock off your ATP. Then start applying to regionals. You are a little light, multiwise, but I'd bet you can get an interview or two. It'll be better if you can do something flying airplanes for a few months. Better still, there are some 135 outfits that fly both airplanes and helicopters.
If the money is really burning a hole in your pocket, I'd go for all my airplane CFI ratings and a rotorcraft-helicopter CFI. The latter should be cake for you. Then, you'll have some good marketable credentials that'll get you work. Tax-deductable, I might add.
Do run a search on Gulfstream, as suggested above. Read all the posts pro and con to get a balanced viewpoint of the place.
Good luck with your decision.
Also known as P-F-T.
Don't bother with Gulfstream. It's not for you. Save your money. Brush up on your airplane instrument skills, find a light twin and an examiner who can give ATP practicals, and knock off your ATP. Then start applying to regionals. You are a little light, multiwise, but I'd bet you can get an interview or two. It'll be better if you can do something flying airplanes for a few months. Better still, there are some 135 outfits that fly both airplanes and helicopters.
If the money is really burning a hole in your pocket, I'd go for all my airplane CFI ratings and a rotorcraft-helicopter CFI. The latter should be cake for you. Then, you'll have some good marketable credentials that'll get you work. Tax-deductable, I might add.
Do run a search on Gulfstream, as suggested above. Read all the posts pro and con to get a balanced viewpoint of the place.
Good luck with your decision.
to mpower
In posting my ATP score I was trying to give people an idea of what my resume would look like so they could better assess my situation and give me more informed advice. Thank you so much for brilliantly thought out response. It was so helpful. I would have expected better from someone calling themselves "mpower". To the rest of you who are truly trying to be helpful, thank you very much.
In posting my ATP score I was trying to give people an idea of what my resume would look like so they could better assess my situation and give me more informed advice. Thank you so much for brilliantly thought out response. It was so helpful. I would have expected better from someone calling themselves "mpower". To the rest of you who are truly trying to be helpful, thank you very much.
publisher
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Easy answers
One thing that you did not give is your age... It is easy for people on these boards who have a philosophy to express it and usually they do without regard for examination of the individual/
You are a bit between a rock and a hole in the ground as you obviously have skills but much of it helicopter time. This is an age old issue and one I am asked about at every job fair or Women in Aviation type show.
To answer you in an appropriate way I would need a better handly on your personal situation. If you are older as I suspect and can, one of the accelerated programs to get you aircraft multi engine turbine time might well be for you, whether Gulfstream or another.
If you want to PM me more information as to your status, I will try to be more specific.
One thing that you did not give is your age... It is easy for people on these boards who have a philosophy to express it and usually they do without regard for examination of the individual/
You are a bit between a rock and a hole in the ground as you obviously have skills but much of it helicopter time. This is an age old issue and one I am asked about at every job fair or Women in Aviation type show.
To answer you in an appropriate way I would need a better handly on your personal situation. If you are older as I suspect and can, one of the accelerated programs to get you aircraft multi engine turbine time might well be for you, whether Gulfstream or another.
If you want to PM me more information as to your status, I will try to be more specific.
Timebuilder
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Soleary-
As you may already have surmised, a great many of us have a differing view of Gulfstream compared to that of Publisher.
I recommend a second pot of coffee as you read the results of your search. You will find logic, emotion, and the main players: "traditional learning experiences, values, and professional ethics" versus "displacing what would otherwise be a job for a paid employee, paying to accelerate your career by getting hired sooner therefore a better seniority number, and being seen as one who takes shortcuts" in most of the posts.
We'll report, you decide.
As you may already have surmised, a great many of us have a differing view of Gulfstream compared to that of Publisher.
I recommend a second pot of coffee as you read the results of your search. You will find logic, emotion, and the main players: "traditional learning experiences, values, and professional ethics" versus "displacing what would otherwise be a job for a paid employee, paying to accelerate your career by getting hired sooner therefore a better seniority number, and being seen as one who takes shortcuts" in most of the posts.
We'll report, you decide.
publisher
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time
timebuilder,
As I said in my private message to this fellow, after learning more about his personal situtation, he is a candidate for a program that provides him multi engine turbine time.
That may not be Gulfstream, nor did I recommend them. The fact is that he has some 3000 hours of total time. The CFI route is not appropriate for this individual. As his age, the clock is ticking and an accelerated program plus a year or two with someone like Airnet may be all required to get to his goal.
These military helo pilots are in a bind. If I grant you that Gulfstream is PFT, he could still go to Tab or someone else strickly for the time.
timebuilder,
As I said in my private message to this fellow, after learning more about his personal situtation, he is a candidate for a program that provides him multi engine turbine time.
That may not be Gulfstream, nor did I recommend them. The fact is that he has some 3000 hours of total time. The CFI route is not appropriate for this individual. As his age, the clock is ticking and an accelerated program plus a year or two with someone like Airnet may be all required to get to his goal.
These military helo pilots are in a bind. If I grant you that Gulfstream is PFT, he could still go to Tab or someone else strickly for the time.
flydog
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Why does he need a program to build multi turbine time? He seems well qualified for a right seat jet or turboprop job without having to buy his way in.
Send out some resumes to everyone and anyone that operates 135 jets and turboprops. Dont break out the helo and airplane time on your resume. Odds are they wont ask and I have never had an employer ask for my logbooks (airlines excluded) You should get plenty of calls
Send out some resumes to everyone and anyone that operates 135 jets and turboprops. Dont break out the helo and airplane time on your resume. Odds are they wont ask and I have never had an employer ask for my logbooks (airlines excluded) You should get plenty of calls
Anaconda
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no offense to my fellow helo driver, but as others have pointed out you must not have searched very far on this board for info about gulfstream. this board is littered with houndreds of opinions about that program, and others like it.
take the time to read them and formulate your own opinion. i have seen people find some measure of success by going down that path, but obviously at great expense. even post-9/11 helo drivers with a couple hundred hours of light-twin multi are being hired, even at regionals such as aca.
have you not browsed the message boards at www.aptap.org? you will find a crowd more in tune with your background that may be able to give you more appropriate advice for your situation.
good luck!
take the time to read them and formulate your own opinion. i have seen people find some measure of success by going down that path, but obviously at great expense. even post-9/11 helo drivers with a couple hundred hours of light-twin multi are being hired, even at regionals such as aca.
have you not browsed the message boards at www.aptap.org? you will find a crowd more in tune with your background that may be able to give you more appropriate advice for your situation.
good luck!
Checks
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Before you go the Gulfstream route 1st Go to every airport in the general area you want to live and hand out resumes. Talk to the line guys about who is who. Go back at night and do the same thing. Go back in a couple more weeks. Get your CFI and instruct part time while your still in the Army.
You do need to get the minimum amount of FWME time but there are better routes than paying 20K for it. I cant remember if you said they pay you during the building of your 250hrs but dont forget living expenses and where they might send you. I cant think of anything that would piss me off me than having to pay for flight time than to also have to pay for the hotel/crash pad, meals, uniforms, phone calls home, ect ect. I know of a guy with the same quals as you who went straight into the right seat of a Lear flying checks 4 nights a week. About 1 year later he went to work for a big corporation making nice money.
You do need to get the minimum amount of FWME time but there are better routes than paying 20K for it. I cant remember if you said they pay you during the building of your 250hrs but dont forget living expenses and where they might send you. I cant think of anything that would piss me off me than having to pay for flight time than to also have to pay for the hotel/crash pad, meals, uniforms, phone calls home, ect ect. I know of a guy with the same quals as you who went straight into the right seat of a Lear flying checks 4 nights a week. About 1 year later he went to work for a big corporation making nice money.
bobbysamd
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Confused
Doesn't rotor turbine time count as turbine time? I know there is some kind of technicality that you can't count multi engine helicopter as multi engine time.
I agree with Flydog, although, as I said above, our gentleman, in my .02, could stand another couple hundred of multi airplane, in ANY multi airplane, just so he would be competitive at this point in time. A year and a half ago - two years ago, he would have been snapped right up by any one of half a dozen commuters.
I remember that Mesa used to like ex-military with similar quals.
Doesn't rotor turbine time count as turbine time? I know there is some kind of technicality that you can't count multi engine helicopter as multi engine time.
I agree with Flydog, although, as I said above, our gentleman, in my .02, could stand another couple hundred of multi airplane, in ANY multi airplane, just so he would be competitive at this point in time. A year and a half ago - two years ago, he would have been snapped right up by any one of half a dozen commuters.
I remember that Mesa used to like ex-military with similar quals.
3
350DRIVER
" "So the "CFI route" is not for him so he should "buy" turbine time" ".....hmmm.- Once again as the others have said make a third pot of coffee and read some other threads concerning Gulfstream. Age is not at issue it is more of a copout in my opinion, there are many many other alternatives for you if you just take the time to do the research. I wish you the best of luck and everything else....
to anaconda
Thanks to everyone for their input. I have about 6 months to retirement from the Army and am now in the process of doing research, as so many of you suggested. Nobody in my circle knows much about any of this so I am looking for all the input I can get, from any source I can find. It's very frustrating to learn that the 20 years I spent flying all over the world, in a very demanding environment and in a very demanding aircraft, doesn't amount to "paying my dues". I would challenge the CFI time builders to try it that way and see if they don't see things differently. To answer your question Anaconda, I haven't made any decisions yet. I have to balance the short time scale I have to work with against the stigma that is attached to this route.
Thanks to everyone for their input. I have about 6 months to retirement from the Army and am now in the process of doing research, as so many of you suggested. Nobody in my circle knows much about any of this so I am looking for all the input I can get, from any source I can find. It's very frustrating to learn that the 20 years I spent flying all over the world, in a very demanding environment and in a very demanding aircraft, doesn't amount to "paying my dues". I would challenge the CFI time builders to try it that way and see if they don't see things differently. To answer your question Anaconda, I haven't made any decisions yet. I have to balance the short time scale I have to work with against the stigma that is attached to this route.
Timebuilder
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Let's see.
You have over three thousand hours in turbine powered aircraft.
You can easily hook into the military pilots network for job hunting.
You are younger than I am.
It seems that I, a "CFI time builder", would have a better excuse than you do for going the PFT route.
We have simply tried to give you a good heads-up on the SOP for civilian pilot jobs.
With helo experience, and the challenging flying you have under your belt, why in the world don't you exploit that with a civilian helo job? There are many outstanding aircraft to be flown, and you could be just the guy they would like to have on their team.
If you like, I can send you some links when I return from sun n fun/job search this week.
At any rate, good luck.
You have over three thousand hours in turbine powered aircraft.
You can easily hook into the military pilots network for job hunting.
You are younger than I am.
It seems that I, a "CFI time builder", would have a better excuse than you do for going the PFT route.
We have simply tried to give you a good heads-up on the SOP for civilian pilot jobs.
With helo experience, and the challenging flying you have under your belt, why in the world don't you exploit that with a civilian helo job? There are many outstanding aircraft to be flown, and you could be just the guy they would like to have on their team.
If you like, I can send you some links when I return from sun n fun/job search this week.
At any rate, good luck.
bobbysamd
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Paying dues v. "paying" dues
I fail to see a stigma to what you've accomplished. No one doubts that you've paid your dues. No one wants to see you "pay" them again.
Three thousand hours of military turbine time is a great qual in and of itself. I maintain that with your current quals you can get some regional interviews right now. You would be in a stronger position if you had more airplane multiengine, but I don't feel that you are in a weak position. In any event, you should finish your ATP.
Good luck with your plans.
I fail to see a stigma to what you've accomplished. No one doubts that you've paid your dues. No one wants to see you "pay" them again.
Three thousand hours of military turbine time is a great qual in and of itself. I maintain that with your current quals you can get some regional interviews right now. You would be in a stronger position if you had more airplane multiengine, but I don't feel that you are in a weak position. In any event, you should finish your ATP.
Good luck with your plans.
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Anaconda
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what stigma?
honestly, coming from comair, i can tell you that you would not get an interview with 200 multi in the current climate. you have to have 121 or 135 time in turbine acft (fixed-wing).
i spoke to a comair interview just the other day. he told me what they are looking for, and he mentioned that they are hiring gulfstream guys quite a bit. doesn't sound like a stigma to me. i point blank asked him if they are cool with guys going out and buying 250 hours in a metroliner and he was very enthusiastic about it. it's the difference between getting the job or not getting the job.
i wouldn't worry about any "stigma". helo guys with half your time that "bought" time in a metroliner or something similar are getting jobs at comair while the cfi's are sweating it out in the tomahawk or 152. seniority is everything in this industry.
there are other options besides gulfstream. i've read about them on this board. eagle jet i think is one of them. sorry, i don't know all the names. respectable operations that don't get as much negative flak as gulfstream.
when i was in your shoes i consulted several cfi's at the school i went to and they all said the same thing. given the credentials i had they all said they would "buy" time as opposed to being an instructor. i'm not knocking the cfi profession at all you just have to consider your own personal situation.
again, i invite you to check out www.aptap.org. i believe you will find it to be educational as well as motivational. there are a lot of guys out there in the same situation as you.
honestly, coming from comair, i can tell you that you would not get an interview with 200 multi in the current climate. you have to have 121 or 135 time in turbine acft (fixed-wing).
i spoke to a comair interview just the other day. he told me what they are looking for, and he mentioned that they are hiring gulfstream guys quite a bit. doesn't sound like a stigma to me. i point blank asked him if they are cool with guys going out and buying 250 hours in a metroliner and he was very enthusiastic about it. it's the difference between getting the job or not getting the job.
i wouldn't worry about any "stigma". helo guys with half your time that "bought" time in a metroliner or something similar are getting jobs at comair while the cfi's are sweating it out in the tomahawk or 152. seniority is everything in this industry.
there are other options besides gulfstream. i've read about them on this board. eagle jet i think is one of them. sorry, i don't know all the names. respectable operations that don't get as much negative flak as gulfstream.
when i was in your shoes i consulted several cfi's at the school i went to and they all said the same thing. given the credentials i had they all said they would "buy" time as opposed to being an instructor. i'm not knocking the cfi profession at all you just have to consider your own personal situation.
again, i invite you to check out www.aptap.org. i believe you will find it to be educational as well as motivational. there are a lot of guys out there in the same situation as you.
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aero99
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I don't support or even get involved with the whole PFT issue and companies like Gulfstream. But, if you are getting out of the military, your GI Bill will pay for part 141 training. I looked into it briefly a while back, so don't know the qualifications, but seems you might be able to go to a school such as ATP and build up some multi training and have Uncle Sam pay for most of it. I don't remember the % they would pay, but seems like it was high, like 65% of the total training bill.
Maybe someone here went that route and can give better answers on how do go about it.
Just a thought no one brought up yet.
Bobby, do you remember any of your students having used the Gi Bill to help pay training cost?
Maybe someone here went that route and can give better answers on how do go about it.
Just a thought no one brought up yet.
Bobby, do you remember any of your students having used the Gi Bill to help pay training cost?
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