Gulfstream getting CoEx Routes?

[mckpickle]

Nigel

Your on your own here. But maybe we can pick on the French. i know I know, easy target right

 

[SDF2BUF2MCO]

Bobby, Nigel is pretty much on target with his comments. From what I have read, the US didn't start to get seriously involved until after Churchill took office and that was after a lot of prodding from Churchill. Yes the US had the lend lease program but that in itself only helped the war effort at best. Joe Kennedy, the ambassador to England, wanted the US to stay out of it even while England was being attacked.
England held Germany at bay buying time for the US to gear up for the war effort. Obviously, Japan was the final straw for the US to get involved.
Yes, the US was the major player in winning the war but England (and eventually the cursed Russians) bought time until reinforcements could come in. Overall, it was a team effort.
I also agree with Nigel's comments about UK money in the US. It is much, much more than people realize. Even the company I work for is British. Who knows, maybe the Lion is modern day Babylon ?!
Apologize for straying from the original thread.

 

[bobbysamd]

History revisionism

I thought this was a Gulfstream/P-F-T "discussion."

Take a look at the time frame. I don't recall the exact year, but I believe it was around 1939 when Churchill replaced David Lloyd-George as British Prime Minister. It wasn't too long thereafter when Lend-Lease began. The U.S. sent fifty destroyers to Great Britain. The U.S. sent aircraft. I realize the American airmen who flew with the RAF, and the RCAF, for that matter, were volunteers, but they still served long before the U.S. declared war on the Axis. Don't forget the risky convoys. Maybe Americans were not on the lines per se (although American pilots flying Spitfires and Hurricanes would certainly qualify in that regard), but the U.S. was certainly supplying Great Britain with war materiel. I do not call that "standing by" for two years.

You are correct that Joseph P. Kennedy urged President Roosevelt to stay out of the war. Of course, that was consistent with the long-standing American policy of isolationism.

I do not disagree with Nigel's observation that the British single-handedly held off the Germans on that front. That is undisputed fact, especially after the French folded and in the Battle of Britain. But, once again, define "entry" into WWII. Speculation runs rampant that President Roosevelt et al knew of the impending Japanese attack and let it happen to facilitate the U.S.'s entry in the war. That is only speculation and not fact. Just the same, the Japanese attacked and the U.S. declared war the next day. Nigel's characterization that the U.S. stood by for two years twiddling its thumbs is, at best, a gross distortion of the facts of history and revisionism.

I realize that this is not the World History/Europolitik Forum.

 

[Britpilot]

Just having some fun with you all, wondered who would take the bait As a point of interest my father served with the British army in North Africa and Italy, he was "recruited" at seventeen and served as a tank driver from 1941 until 1946
Yes I am aware of the lend lease program, that did not begin until after the start of hostilities and Churchill,who was boss of the Admiralty before becoming Pime Minister, had to plead with the US for their support against the Nazis, from Roosevelt. Roosevelt supported entry into the war but there was oposition from Congress, hence the delay that the Japanese helped to shorten.
The Mustang was built to a British requirement but did not see service until 1941 prior to that the fighter defense was provided by the Spitfire and Hurricane.
The US is also a very large invester in Europe which also equates to being a large employer over there in many countries, with the tax advantages that creates and the obvious revenue, it is a nice deal for corporate America.
You may have also noticed that the UK is usually one of the first to sign up for support of the US in many of the global conflicts that plague us today. You see we enjoy a good fight.
Me? I am just a former Brit who is now a proud American. Can any one say "God save the President"?

 

[bobbysamd]

History

You are indeed the sly one, Mr. Brit. I appreciate the sentiments and accuracy of your latest post.

Your father most certainly endured some difficult duty during the war. I had an uncle who served in the U.S. Army in the same theaters during the same time.

We should also mention that the Allison-powered P-51A was a great low-level aircraft but ineffective at high altitude. The Merlin engine installation changed all that.

 

[Lord Wakefield]

Nothing frosts me more than praise for that turncoat Churchill. "History of English Speaking Peoples" what drivel.

Britain keeping the Nazis at bay? It was only because of their agreement with Poland that the Nazi thugs abandoned their policy of Ostpolitik and turned westward. Lesson, British meddling brought them problems they couldn't take care of without outside help.

U.S. late in WWI ? Should we have even been involved in that scrap? Afterwards, the Brits and French would dictate terms of surrender (the Germans only agreed to an Armistice) that would lay the ground work for Hitler and his minions to come to power by legal means.

Britain first to line up to help the United States?
Yes, unfortunately this is true. I wish they wouldn't; they only get in the way!

 

[Britpilot]

Nothing frosts me more than praise for that turncoat Churchill. "History of English Speaking Peoples" what drivel.

Britain keeping the Nazis at bay? It was only because of their agreement with Poland that the Nazi thugs abandoned their policy of Ostpolitik and turned westward. Lesson, British meddling brought them problems they couldn't take care of without outside help.

U.S. late in WWI ? Should we have even been involved in that scrap? Afterwards, the Brits and French would dictate terms of surrender (the Germans only agreed to an Armistice) that would lay the ground work for Hitler and his minions to come to power by legal means.

Britain first to line up to help the United States?
Yes, unfortunately this is true. I wish they wouldn't; they only get in the way!

Now that is funny stuff. I still don't see how Churchill can be described as a turncoat. Interesting fact was his mother was American and he himself spent some time over here.
Sorry we get in YOUR way, hope you like the Harrier and the Goshawk, very useful equipment in times of conflict. Not to mention the SAS, finest special force there is. But maybe you have no military experiance to base these comments on.
Also interesting handle, Lord Wakefield, a fine town in Yorkshire, England. Lord, of course, being a title of English gentry.
You are correct about Hitler, we did allow him time to build his military strength even after Churchill warned the world in 1935 of this threat, but he was branded a war monger at the time. Sounds familar, they say that history repeats itself.

 

[Lord Wakefield]

Not to mention the SAS, finest special force there is. /B]

Yes, let's not mention the SAS, that hopeless hodgepodge of misfits and cross dressers who've shown all the dependability of an English car.

Better you should have called up the Black & Tan's. Now, that would have been scary!

 

[bobbysamd]

Our British Cousins

I still don't see how Churchill can be described as a turncoat. Interesting fact was his mother was American and he himself spent some time over here.

Score one for Mr. Brit. How can anyone classify Churchill as a turncoat? I recall seeing or hearing recently that Churchill and the Georges Bush have a common distant relative.

Originally posted by Britpilot [H]ope you like the Harrier and the Goshawk, very useful equipment in times of conflict . . . . .

I agree. The Harriers proved their worth as level fighters in the Falkland Islands war. The USMC have found them to be useful, too.

Originally posted by Britpilot You are correct about Hitler, we did allow him time to build his military strength even after Churchill warned the world in 1935 of this threat, but he was branded a war monger at the time. Sounds familar, they say that history repeats itself.

Agreed, especially after Hitler abrogated the Treaty of Versailles. I think most people would agree, too.

Once more, I didn't know this was the History Channel. But, interesting discussion, nevertheless.

 

[Britpilot]

Yes, let's not mention the SAS, that hopeless hodgepodge of misfits and cross dressers who've shown all the dependability of an English car.

Better you should have called up the Black & Tan's. Now, that would have been scary!

Ahh, the Black and Tans, now I see where your coming from, a terrorist supporter, they were nothing but a bunch of cowards, just like all terrorists.
How about we mention that the SAS trained and continue to train US special forces, are you going to call them cross dressers too?
You are clearly nothing more than a British hater. Sorry that I am a Brit and are the target of your hatred. Hope you enjoyed the VC10 and the Sopwiths. Both, of course, British aircraft.
And of course any cars are much more dependable than those Jaguars, Rolls Royces and Range Rovers aren't they?

 

[TurboS7]

Nigel,
I have a UK ATPL temp that is good for two years. I myself passed the written law exam and also did a checkride to ATP 737 standards under the watchful eye of the head of the CAA. If I wanted to get a real airline job in the EU I would have to have my license changed into a JAR license. To get the JAR license I have to take a six month college course and have an airline sponser me. Check out what has happened in your own country, it is not the same as it was even a year ago. Cheers.

 

[Lord Wakefield]

Yes, Churchill's mother was born here. Brooklyn if memory serves me correctly; and a street in the Bronx bears her name.

Turncoat is not the name I gave him. How many political parties did he belong to? At least, he was something of a pilot (flew an Avro 504)

Germany didn't surrender in WWI. She agreed to an ARMISTICE on Wilson's 14 pts, laid down her arms and sent her High Seas Fleet to the British base at Scapa Flow. Versailles was a Carthaginian peace, a dictat, imposed on a disarmed Germany at the point of millions of guns during a starvation blockade. If she didn't give up 1/10 her land and 8 million people, Marshall Foch would have marched on Berlin. Ask a lawyer (no, let's not involve them) any contract signed at gun point is invalid (that's not to say I oppose the Magna Carta in principle). Though Hitler's rearming of Germany was a breach of Versailles, the decision to build a navy 1/3 the size of Britain's was assented to by Britain is negotiations when Churchill was a member of the Labour party.

I had a Jag-u-ar once and it cured me. The only reason the Brits don't market computers is because they haven't figured out how to make one leak. And it was a lousy British Leyland car and didn't get fixed till Ford stepped in. Even James Bond no longer drives an Aston Martin.

I'm hardly a Brit hater. You guys make the world's best mustard. Try it, it'll put hair on your chest!

 

[Britpilot]

Nigel,
I have a UK ATPL temp that is good for two years. I myself passed the written law exam and also did a checkride to ATP 737 standards under the watchful eye of the head of the CAA. If I wanted to get a real airline job in the EU I would have to have my license changed into a JAR license. To get the JAR license I have to take a six month college course and have an airline sponser me. Check out what has happened in your own country, it is not the same as it was even a year ago. Cheers.

Just called the CAA. Don't know where this airline sponsership came from, as you can get the JAR ATPL based on your FAA ATP. It will cost some cash as there is a check ride involved and of course a fee for logbook inspection and the writtens. You can also go yo any JAR country for the srevice.

 

[TurboS7]

The sponsership is for the work permit for an individual that is not part of the EU by citizen ship. In other words the airline is saying that they want this individual working for them due to specific qualifications etc. As you well know the rules are changing faster that any of us can keep up with them, my info is based on experience a couple of years ago. That is news about the JAA ATPL we were told we would have to go to six months of "college" in order to qualify to take the written. Maybe all that has change too. Thanks for checking.

 

[Britpilot]

Agreed, if you do not have a way to gain a work permit then you do have to be sponsered. Very similar to here if you need to get a work permit.
The JAR's are "work in progress" especially when it comes to training regulations. I worked on this for two years for an international acadamy based here. A lot of the rules mirrored Part 141 regs and all schools have to be approved by the JAA in order to give flight instruction. The conversion process is still one of those areas that is changing. Once your logbook is "reviewed" you will be told of what is required to convert. For instance, they give credit for type ratings, PIC time under part 121,SIC time under Part 121 and any heavy time. My freind here in SC just came back from a trip to Holland last week and he had the logbook review and was amazed at how little was required to convert, so was I.
It does cost quite a bit of cash but then Europe has never been cheap and the flying over there is very different with all the controlled airspace and Eurocontrol, but if you think you need the license it is obtainable.