Guilty!!!

[olympus593]

Being French is a matter of nationality, not race. And you must admit, as a Nation, they are sort of known as being surrender monkeys.

If you wanted to be racist, you could say that Sophie Marceau has physical traits that make a kinkameggasuper hottie.

Your splitting hair, I was just saying that in general name calling has no place in a professional Forum.

 

[semperfido]

Nice Racist post, Hope you feel better.

All the name calling on this board really give us a good reputation.
There is nothing wrong with disagreing with people, but what about some respect for eachother.

racist? i don't think so. everyone can agree they are a bunch of weenies (that have good wine and some good food)

 

[CapnVegetto]

Dog Driver:

You are exactly correct. This is a travesty I pray will end up in front of a Federal Circuit Ct., or being heard by the Supreme Court, on grounds that it violates the Constiutional protections against Double Jeopardy and on the basis of Federal Subject Matter Preemption. This sort of politically motivated prosecution is how freedom ends.

Now that the FAA has revoked their Certificates, their airline has fired them, their union abandoned them - the State of Florida wants to put them in prison for five years.

Surely they broke a city ordinance, an airport rule, and pissed off the security guard that was trying to take the Captain's Coffee away from him. Are all these folks going to try to make political hay out of these pilots' stupidity as well?

Aside from the legal arguements, isn't five years a little stiff on a first offense when the vehicle was never moved? I know these guys intended to fly, but in Florida it is no crime to sit in your pickup truck and drink beer - they even seem to tolerate peeing off the tailgate everywhere but Naples.

~~~^~~~

Well, next time we'll stick your wife and kids on the plane, give them a bottle of vodka, and then tell me what you think.

 

[olympus593]

Well, next time we'll stick your wife and kids on the plane, give them a bottle of vodka, and then tell me what you think.

Just my wife please...

 

[Biatch5]

Q: Why does the new French Navy have glass-bottom boats?
A: So they can see the old French Navy....

That was stupid....You can do better

 

[HoursHore]

Professional Forum? You aren't from around here are you.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Well, next time we'll stick your wife and kids on the plane, give them a bottle of vodka, and then tell me what you think.

Huh? So how many times should these pilots be prosecuted for sitting in America West's jet?

Please check all that you agree with - I agree with the ones marked X

X O - Suspension of Certificates
X O - Revocation of the same
X O - Loss of career ( will not be in a jetliner again )

Now what the Florida Court wants to achieve

O - Local regulation of aviation
O - Local jurisdiction of law enforcement over aviation matters
O - Local adjuctication of aviation matters
O - Five years of prison on a first offense DUI where the vehicle did not move

Also, my chart case is already full. Will you help me care a complete copy of the Florida State Statutes and every local ordinance and we fly all over the Northern Hemisphere - candidly our chart cases are going to have to come to the airport in a transport container.

And hey, I might decide that I don't want airplanes flying over my house and I am sure my town will agree. I live under the Macey arrival, so there is a bunch of pilots we need to round up and prosecute for breaking my local no fly law.

 

[AA717driver]

This is another case of prosecutors prosecuting to try to show how they are "protecting the citizenry" from crime. If the State of Florida is so concerned about impaired drivers (of whatever kind of machinery) they need to pull over every driver over the age of 75 and check for impairment.

Whether it is prescription drugs or just old age, most drivers over the age of 75 aren't competent and wouldn't pass a field sobriety check.

And, a 5 year sentence is draconian.TC

 

[Dog Driver]

~~~^~~~

~~~^~~~,

If that is your REAL name .....

Nice to see SOMEBODY is on topic here ......


Actually it IS illegal to sit in you pickup and drink beer IF the keys are in the ignition ... in Florida anyway.

Had a run in one night with a local 'butt head cop' .... I was too tired to drive and decided to pull over in a parking lot and sleep .... NOTHING to drink .... JUST sleepy. Went through all the hoops and threats ... told because I had the keys in the ignition (listening to the radio) it was a DUI. Finally had me use the breathalyzer ..... a big 0.0%!! Got chastised for doing something SMART.

Anyway ... I agree with you that 5 years is a little steep for a first offence ... if it is a first offence...(they might have a history) however I feel trying to fly an airliner with passengers deserves a little more than average.

It will be interesting to see what they acually get sentenced to.


AGAIN ..... I would agree with all of what they get IF it was the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT (FAA) doing it.

Would I be angry if my family was on the plane ?? Heck yes !! But that is NOT the problem CapnVegetto, it is that the STATE OF FLORIDA is going after these guys .... What next ..... TSA has the athority to arest you for rolling past a hold line or busting an altitude ?? That, like this, is the FAA's job. ONE SET of rules that I can learn and live by. Ignorance of the law is no excuse .... remember that when Deputy 'Bubba' throws you into his cruiser for no brake lights on your cessna.

 

[~~~^~~~]

~~~^~~~ <--- Fins to the left!

It is a reference to a song by another pilot troubador, a son of a son of a sailor born in the wrong century. But oops, I am off topic.

I interviewed these pilots' attorneys in the first round of appeals while they were still spending their first $100,000 of their own money defending this case. It was a first offense.

 

[GogglesPisano]

Every professional pilot should be alarmed that these guys were prosecuted in a state court for something concerning their federal license.Radar traps on taxiways are next.

 

[zonker]

~~~^~~~ <--- Fins to the left!

It is a reference to a song by another pilot troubador, a son of a son of a sailor born in the wrong century. But oops, I am off topic.

I interviewed these pilots' attorneys in the first round of appeals while they were still spending their first $100,000 of their own money defending this case. It was a first offense.

Actually, I believe Cloyd had a domestic violence and a prior DUI arrest on his record. I'm not sure if that was admissible evidence, but at any rate, he wasn't a choirboy.

But your prior points are well taken, and I agree with you.

 

[castle bravo]

Just where is ALPA on all of this?

 

[Lequip]

Sweet Justice! Give em 5 and let em Rot!

 

[Captain Overs]

Every professional pilot should be alarmed that these guys were prosecuted in a state court for something concerning their federal license.Radar traps on taxiways are next.

Why be alarmed? When you act in a reckless manner you have to be willing to accept the consequences of your actions. I don't feel sorry for these guys.

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

Nationalist would be more accurate or

racist? i don't think so. everyone can agree they are a bunch of weenies (that have good wine and some good food)

Nationalistic with low tolerance for others.

 

[Dog Driver]

Why be alarmed? When you act in a reckless manner you have to be willing to accept the consequences of your actions. I don't feel sorry for these guys.

You are missing the point .....

I don't feel sorry for them either .....

Yes, if you act stupid, you should be punishied right ??

Ok, now who decides what is stupid ?? FAA ?? Florida ?? Me ?? My dog ??

Now, who is going to punish the 'stupid' people ??

Understand that this OPENS the door to NON-AVIATION people writting laws that regulate AVIATION and the need for every pilot to learn a bunch of random local laws that we do not train for.

How many times have you heard 'NO FLIGHT PLAN ON FILE'? Sounds dangerous and stupid (to a non-aviation person)!!!! We need a law !!!!!

Yes, DUI is a universal no-no...what they did is not the point. But it is no more the state's buisiness to punish these guys then it is mine, yours or my dogs. It is the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT ... the same entity that WROTE the AVIATION laws. We have agreements with other countries to use the same, universal laws just to avoid this mish-mash of localized laws. Aviation and Maritime operations are and need to be different. We cover too much teritory to not have a common set of rules and enforcement.

Think of it this way ..... you killed someone, should you be tried by a jury of your peers, convicted and punished or...
Dragged out into the street, beaten and hung by a mob ?? Yes, you did something wrong and should be punished, right ?? What difference does it make who punishes you ??

 

[GogglesPisano]

Why be alarmed? When you act in a reckless manner you have to be willing to accept the consequences of your actions. I don't feel sorry for these guys.

Reckless as defined by what entity? The FAA? The state? The city? Let's assume you get stopped going through security and randomly breathalized because some local politician in Texas (or Alabama, or New York) decides that pilots should be randomly tested over and above FAA guidelines. You had a glass of wine with dinner the night before (more than 12 hours) and you blow a meager 0.0002%. Perfectly legal right? Wrong, the local authorities have just passed "zero tolerance" policy for flight crew "in the public interest." Off to the hooswkow with you for 5 years. You think the press will be sympathetic?

Another example: They stop you at security because you have a newspaper in your flight bag. A local politician has passed a law forbidding flight crews from "attempting" to read non-flight-related publications in the cockpit. Again, what do you think the local press would report?

Already overseas flight crews are being criminally prosecuted for making honest mistakes -- "pilot error."

Let's just answer to the FAA -- that's hard enough.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Just where is ALPA on all of this?

After the revocation of their Certificates for proper cause, ALPA took the position that they were no longer pilots and the union could not defend them in this civil matter.

They are out over $100,000.00 in defense costs, out of their own pockets.

 

[redflyer65]

You guys are missing the fine points on what is going on. I agree with where you are coming from but remember these facts....

1- In reality the FAA has no teeth. Whats the worst they can do? Pull their tickets and possibly disallow a re-instatement later. Thats it. Yea, the FAR says .04%, but they can't do anything more.

2-The Federal statute on operating a vehicle is .10%, so guess what, you are not going to see a federal case on this. It's simple not there.

The focus of the defense was if they had been operating the aircraft. I believe that as soon as they started running checklist and doing flows, they were operating the aircraft. I can't believe how far they took there stupidity. If anyone gets themselves in this situation (and there shouldn't be a reason to drink this much on an overnight anyway), just call in sick and preserve the rest of your career, and don't endanger anyone else's life. We get enough bad press as it is.