Grinstein says Delta will be ok!

[Dizel8]

"ALPA took CAL back for one reason and one reason only. Dues. It is all about money. Nothing more. Nothing less."

Boeingman, Come on down! ( In my best announcer voice)

I think you are spot on!

 

[Boeingman]

And your point is?

Didn't I already make it? But as long as this tangent is running I'll play. Although I am not trying to pick a fight with you, just making a point about past arrogance that ran rampent over there. Especially on Super Bowl Sunday 1997 in our near buyout.

Do you think you won't be there again?

Who knows? All I was trying to point out was there were a lot of Delta pilots slamming CAL pilots in years past. It is funny listening to remarks about how they might need to hook up with us now and expect a fair and equitable integration. I just think that type of attitude is extremly hypocritical that is all.

I am not trying to be cocky, but think that there will be some consolidation eventually.

I agree. My point is where will the Delta pilots end up given your precarious situation right here and now?

DL and NW will cut pensions and debt obligations and make it really tempting for your management to do the same.

We already took it in the shorts with our pension.

As far as career expectations goes, well, you are retiring 2600 pilots over the next three years--I have been here 9 years---I should be senior to everyone who has recently been hired this year.

General you better take a real hard look at the entire career expectation language in the ALPA merger and fragmentation policy. Where you "should" be doesn't make a hill of beans with a failing carrier. Your 9 years means nothing as of yesterday.

I can't wait to do Delhi or Beijing from EWR on the 777.

Don't hold your breath. BUt it is this type of attitude that I am trying to make a point about. I am sure (at least hope) you said this in jest

You need to take a chill pill there chief, and understand that your company could be next.

I am chilled General (do you out rank me?). I am not saying we won't either. Again my point is there are a lot of Delta boys and girls that need to keep their mouth shut after the treatment and visions they extended to us lowly CAL pilots.

Yeah, you had a small profit last quarter, but gas is higher now and you still have to pay those pensions.

The pensions at Delta are only a small part of your problem. Personally, I think Grinstein waited far to long to file and preserve cash. Everything Delta owns is now nearly all leveraged and your access to credit markets are just about cut off. You seem to believe that dumping the pensions will be A) Easy B) the savior of the airline.

United did it right (by BK standards) by filing early before hocking their assets (to get DIP loans against) and preserving their cash. It will be interesting to see who is going to loan money to you guys without some type of secure instruments.

You may be back for round 3. You never know.

I agree. I also don't care either.

Career expectations? What are those?

Exactly what the CAL pilots will be saying to Delta pilots now.

You sound a bit cocky there--you would have made a great Delta pilot.....

I actually turned you guys down way back when. Up until a couple of years ago, I was really kicking myself.

[/QUOTE]

 

[73belair]

Will Delta offer the same deal that JB has for those 190s? Everything above 70 hrs is 150% pay?

 

[Boeingman]

"ALPA took CAL back for one reason and one reason only. Dues. It is all about money. Nothing more. Nothing less."

Boeingman, Come on down! ( In my best announcer voice)

I think you are spot on!

Thank you

 

[Dizel8]

Will Delta offer the same deal that JB has for those 190s? Everything above 70 hrs is 150% pay?

Heavens no, DALPA will do much better!

 

[General Lee]

Wow, great responses. So, 9 years of service means nothing compared to newhires today? Really? I think you are wrong there. Also, it is very likely that CAL could be in the same position in a few months. As far as our current situation, it isn't great to say the least. But, a lot of the debt will be gone or restructured. The pension obligations will be reduced by $8.4 billion if Congress doesn't come up with a better plan. Fine with me. ASA shed us another $1 billion. Comair will do the same. We already started a transformation period that has yeilded results, yet as you said we were late in implementing the plan. If you knew high gas prices were here to stay--you should have told everyone. How baout Hurrincane Katrina? Did you see that coming too? Thanks for telling everyone. And, my career expectations will fit in nicely with all of your pilots after the court proceedings. To think that your airline will keep paying all of these higher bills and pension payments (your personal pension may be shot, but what about all of the current payments to the retired folks?) is unlikely----it is called competitive advantage.

And, I am not one of those super cocky Delta pilots (even though most on Flightinfo probably think so)--I didn't think we would staple CAL back in 97. I was still happy to be going to a window seat after 7 months on the 727 panel. The guys you are mad at are long gone now, with their $1 million lump sums....Congrats on being at CAL, for now....We may all be linked one day together---Deltaco-west. (I have applied for a copywrite for that name)

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Heavens no, DALPA will do much better!

Thanks to your bus pilots not caring about the E190 rates, we will probably get the same. Thanks dudes. I also can't wait to do transcon turns, and marry my sister! (my wife won't like that)

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[JT8D]

and marry my sister! (my wife won't like that)

Bye Bye--General Lee

Wait a minute, your in Atlanta right? Wouldn't your wife and your sister be cousins? Yes that would cause tension.


I kidding!, I kid with you.

 

[Dizel8]

Oh no General, not going to be that easy for you. You now have an opportunity to "set the standard, do the right thing and raise the bar". You and DALPA have the opportunity to raise pay for all the people on the 170-195, the pilots at Comair,heck for all the regionals out there, so let see that bravado of yours in action!

As for not caring, the DAL boys still picking up over time, still allowing "contractors" on the property while people are on furlough? Yeah, I thought so!

As for what you do with your sister, I really do not care, but get it over with, it is getting really old!

 

[Boeingman]

Wow, great responses.

Thanks. I'll take it even if you're being sarcastic.

So, 9 years of service means nothing compared to newhires today? Really? I think you are wrong there.

Question: If Delta rejects the leases and parks as many aircraft as they are saying in the filing where does that leave you on the list? What are your chances for progression given the finacial outlook for your company? Compare vis a vis a CAL new hire and I don't think you are going to like the answer.

I am not saying it is right but past history supports my observation. For your own good you better let go of your time in service card. Once you carrier enters bankruptcy your odds of retaining anything relative are great;y diminished.

Also, it is very likely that CAL could be in the same position in a few months.

Didn't we already beat this horse?

As far as our current situation, it isn't great to say the least. But, a lot of the debt will be gone or restructured. The pension obligations will be reduced by $8.4 billion if Congress doesn't come up with a better plan. Fine with me. ASA shed us another $1 billion. Comair will do the same. We already started a transformation period that has yeilded results, yet as you said we were late in implementing the plan.

General, debt doesn't disappear or go just away without a price. Creditors who get burned will not likely do business with you again. Those that will do business in the future will extract a premium after watching their comrades get hosed in the courts. Another words, doing business in the future will be very costly.

Transformation plan? General, if it was working Delta would not of been burning through cash to the point of declaring bankruptcy. Face it. You guys gave $1 Bilion in givebacks to have it pissed away with simplifares. I don't call that a plan that is working.

If you knew high gas prices were here to stay--you should have told everyone. How baout Hurrincane Katrina? Did you see that coming too? Thanks for telling everyone.

I see, so this was the only cause for the bankruptcy? OK.

And, my career expectations will fit in nicely with all of your pilots after the court proceedings.

I seriously think you are in for a real setback if you believe this. Honestly, I think Delta will be lucky to avoid being broken up or liquidated given the degree of leverage and your current cash position.

To think that your airline will keep paying all of these higher bills and pension payments (your personal pension may be shot, but what about all of the current payments to the retired folks?) is unlikely----it is called competitive advantage.

Is this the same competitive advantage your boys and girls used to accuse us of using? I guess it is all right for you guys now is that right?

The guys you are mad at are long gone now, with their $1 million lump sums....Congrats on being at CAL, for now....We may all be linked one day together---Deltaco-west. (I have applied for a copywrite for that name)

I am not mad in the least. I am just sitting back watching this industry collapse.

 

[General Lee]

Oh no General, not going to be that easy for you. You now have an opportunity to "set the standard, do the right thing and raise the bar". You and DALPA have the opportunity to raise pay for all the people on the 170-195, the pilots at Comair,heck for all the regionals out there, so let see that bravado of yours in action!

As for not caring, the DAL boys still picking up over time, still allowing "contractors" on the property while people are on furlough? Yeah, I thought so!

As for what you do with your sister, I really do not care, but get it over with, it is getting really old!

Most of what you say is pure BS---and you know it. I think we will try to get Jetblue +$1, that should be really easy thanks to the Jetblue bus pilots who don't care. I think we could do that. Who couldn't? Well, you guys.

As far as overtime, yes--some take it---bit that actually saves the airline money. Inverse assignments cost more than greenslips---and also allows pilots who want to fly do it, instead of getting a guy on his last leg to do the trip. Hey, the trip will be flying regardless, and greenslips cost less. Would I like to bring back all of the furloughs? Yes. Why are they recalling only 10 a month on average? Probably because they don't want to furlough anyone twice when we park some 737-200s coming up here. Would you like to give up your intermediate job to come back and then go out again? You would? And those "contract pilots" are there because we allowed them only 24 hours notice to declare retirement. Can an airline prepare for that anyway? Nope. A guy could put in his papers and then take them out---resulting in large bids without retiring pilots. If we could give 120 days notice, that may allow the company time to put out an accurate bid. But, our contract gave that much flexibility---24 hours notice to retire. 18 777 Captains (out of 50 or so) retired on Sept 1st. We would have to cancel 30% of our lucrative 777 flights. That is why there is that program. Now that the retirements have pretty much stopped, the training department can get ramped up. Also, a lot of the retiring pilots were senior Line Check Airman, and you should know it takes awhile to get them trained and approved by the FAA. It is hard to train new pilots or recalled pilots when everyone else is in training to replace the leaving LCA.

And I use the sister analogy because it makes a point----you guys want to change a lot of rules that have been around forever. Most of them benefit you only, and in reality you don't see how changing them could hurt you. If you are Superman and can fly a NYC-LGB turn with bad weather on return or along the route---then good for you. Most cannot. How about you petition to change the INTL rules also----I can't wait for a two pilot flight from JFK to SVO (Moscow).


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Boeingman,


Maybe you didn't realize this, but we have retired 2500 pilots in 15 months. Yes, that was 2500 Captains, mostly senior Captains. The management pilot I talked to today in ATL told me that we have the correct amount of pilots now even with those airplane retirements. (all 762, 732, and 733 retirements) That is how short we are. We also may add new 100 seat aircraft financed from GE, according to the AJC paper. And, then he said we will make up the slack with a huge INTL push---bringing the INTL revenue up to 40% from 22% of our total revenue. He said that will take more pilots. They also decreased the turn times in ATL to 45 minutes for the narrowbody aircraft, which is making up for a lot of those planes that could be parked.

Is Simplifares working? Well, with $70 gas, probably not. We just brought in one of your ex revenue guys that worked wonders with Alitalia (I guess he did good work there too?) and he is the one who just chopped a bunch of CVG flights. He is working on the revenue side of the equation. Better late than never. The rest of the transformation plan is huge. We chopped DFW, created operation clockwork that does well in good wx, and did a host of other things. It would have worked with lower oil prices. We are staying with the plan, and building on it----which will work with lower costs. Unfortunately, that means pay cuts in the mean time.

I am glad you think we could be liquidated. What do you guys own? Anything? Anything? Part of Expressjet? Yes, that's it. High gas may get you too. Welcome to Skyteam!

Competitve advantage is what every Major CEO will be saying shortly. And, I too am watching this industry fall down. It will end up with less airlines, more consolidation, and smaller pay checks.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[banger]

Most of what you say is pure BS---and you know it. I think we will try to get Jetblue +$1, that should be really easy thanks to the Jetblue bus pilots who don't care. I think we could do that. Who couldn't? Well, you guys.
Bye Bye--General Lee

whoa General your losing me here.
You argue that jetBlue pilots who have no union and no input to the pay scales Management sets are at fault for the EMB-190 pay rate. Then you say DAL guys who are unionized can only get Jetblue+$1. I don't get it. You guys should be "raising the bar" and getting super high pay for those 100 seaters right?

 

[General Lee]

whoa General your losing me here.
You argue that jetBlue pilots who have no union and no input to the pay scales Management sets are at fault for the EMB-190 pay rate. Then you say DAL guys who are unionized can only get Jetblue+$1. I don't get it. You guys should be "raising the bar" and getting super high pay for those 100 seaters right?

I really never heard a lot of outrage about the very low rates for the E190, when the bus paid a lot more. The main reason is because you really can't voice your opinions without getting the axe. You have no union to come in and fight for you. Now, I know ALPA hasn't done very well as of late, but with many airlines falling down around them, it is tougher to demand stuff. Your company is doing better than most, but you can't justify good wages (unless you work more than 70 hours) for a potentially lucrative jet. Our situation is absolutely different, since our financial situation is far worse. So, an extra $5 an hour or more will shut your airline down? I guess it will according to DN. Maybe it is not in your low cost plan? Well, your Airbuses pay a lot more, right? How many more seats on that? Will you carry the same amount of people per day (bus gets 3 legs, E190 gets 6)? What is the justification? Our's is that we are in Chap 11. Your's is because you didn't have anyone on it yet and you turned your heads because you didn't have to fly it if you didn't want to. And, Dave Bushey was watching. Our current 100 seater (the 737-200) pays a lot better than your E190, and will continue after another 20% pay cut. (the 737-200s will leave by the end of next year) Your bar will lower our bar in the future.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[sandman2122]

That's all you Delta guys care about, is the PAY..........priceless.