Grinstein says Delta will be ok!

[Ace757]

Delta’s financial problems are severe, but by no means insurmountable,” said Jerry Grinstein, chief executive officer. “We are optimistic about our future because we have been working for months on a business plan that builds on the substantial improvements we’ve already made and demonstrates that Delta can return to profitability once the company is able to restructure appropriately.”

 

[FreightNazi]

Captain Smith said the Titanic wasn't going to sink.

 

[gkrangers]

If the employees worked for free....would they turn a profit?

 

[DaveGriffin]

Captain Smith said the Titanic wasn't going to sink.

Back in 2002, when Delta first asked for concessions from the pilots, DALPA claimed that Delta was grossly exaggerating claims of possible financial failure.

 

[~~~^~~~]

If course, with C2K ratified in 2001 they needed three years to get their earnings up to cash out with the best retirement package.

I hate to burst anyone's bubble, but what did you expect Grinstien to say, after all he just borrowed another 1.7 Billion dollars.

 

[lumax]

Yeah, Grinstein and his mgmt buddies will be OK with with their golden parachutes. The entire airline could desolve but the important thing is I, Grinstein, will be OK. Employees will be laid off and pensions terminated but I, Grinstein, will be OK. Years of hard work on work rules will be erased by bankruptcy judges but I ,Grinstein, will be OK.

 

[DaveGriffin]

If course, with C2K ratified in 2001 they needed three years to get their earnings up to cash out with the best retirement package.

I hate to burst anyone's bubble, but what did you expect Grinstien to say, after all he just borrowed another 1.7 Billion dollars.

Exactly right Prof;

Three years of foot dragging after 9/11, purposely staged to allow the senior pilots cash out with three years of C2K high earnings, caused more financial damage to Delta than the unwinding of the fuel hedges and the management bonuses combined. DALPA plus Management are equal culprits in this disaster.

 

[Green]

Can you think of one airline that has shrunk to profitability and turned out to be a success. Employee concessions are a drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of things.

 

[General Lee]

Back in 2002, when Delta first asked for concessions from the pilots, DALPA claimed that Delta was grossly exaggerating claims of possible financial failure.

Dave,

Had Michele Burns sold the fuel hedges yet? Nope. Had we started retiring pilots at 200 a month yet? (That was their contractual right) Had the 2nd Iraq War started yet Dave? Also Dave, the company often asked for concessions and never said what they would do with the non-union people. That aint fair Dave. Wake up Dave.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Can you think of one airline that has shrunk to profitability and turned out to be a success. Employee concessions are a drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of things.

That is why you restructure in Bankruptcy. Continental has done it twice, and USAir has done it twice in 3 years. We have $10.6 billion in pension obligations, which could have most of that ($8.4 Billion) dropped and given to the PBGC. There goes some debt. Then, we have $4.5 billion in unsecured debt, which according to an article those creditors can maybe expect 25 cents on the dollar in return. Sell Comair and there goes another billion. (in planes and lease obligations) Cut our pay, and there goes money for gas savings. American Express wants us around, since we have 25 MILLION SkyMiles members with their card. GE and Boeing want us around to do business and to not dump airplanes on the market. (China didn't even want our MD90s last year---we offered) The drops in the bucket will be significant eventually. And, we actually do have a plan and have been working on it, but we ran out of time with high gas and debt problems.....It will be interesting....


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

If course, with C2K ratified in 2001 they needed three years to get their earnings up to cash out with the best retirement package.

I hate to burst anyone's bubble, but what did you expect Grinstien to say, after all he just borrowed another 1.7 Billion dollars.

True, but he will rid us a lot more debt, and get costs down. Then, a merger will most likely occur and more investors will invest in the new company. Look at the fools throwing money at United----and they still really don't have a plan. There will be fools left for us too. DELWEST.


Bye bye--General Lee

 

[Saabslime]

United doesn't have a plan? After the AWA/AAA deal is done, look for them to enter the mix. You heard it here first folks.

 

[bafanguy]

In John Malone's "Chairman's Letter" of the 14th, he makes reference to the use of "self help" in the event the BK court imposed pay/rules/working conditions not to ALPA's liking.


Right out of the chute with sabers rattling. I can't imagine anything less productive at this point in the process.

 

[spinproof]

Dave,

Had Michele Burns sold the fuel hedges yet? Nope. Had we started retiring pilots at 200 a month yet? (That was their contractual right) Had the 2nd Iraq War started yet Dave? Also Dave, the company often asked for concessions and never said what they would do with the non-union people. That aint fair Dave. Wake up Dave.


Bye Bye--General Lee

What would be the reason a "healthy" company would sell its fuel insurance hedge? It wouldn't. In my opinion and in spite of all the issues you and others raise, this was the unkindest cut of all!

 

[~~~^~~~]

Delta had no choice but to sell their hedge. A fuel hedge is a credit contract for future sales - Delta's credit fell triggering the sale when they could no longer finance the obligation.

I am actually with General on the turn around, to the point that I sold my AirTran stock during its bump with the Delta news. AirTran sees trouble on the horizon also. Have you noted that their new routes all seem to avoid overflying Delta?

 

[spinproof]

Delta had no choice but to sell their hedge. A fuel hedge is a credit contract for future sales - Delta's credit fell triggering the sale when they could no longer finance the obligation.

I am actually with General on the turn around, to the point that I sold my AirTran stock during its bump with the Delta news. AirTran sees trouble on the horizon also. Have you noted that their new routes all seem to avoid overflying Delta?

The 80 Million DAL got for the contract is the equailent to a weeks worth of fuel today! Yes hindsight is 20-20. There's a reason they call it a hedge.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Even the FLYI guys have optimistic spin.... all part of the game....

Airtran.....tell us more Fins.

 

[B747FR8DAWG]

Take The Money and Run - Pilots Take Lump Sum Before PBGC

PBGC: Delta still on the hook for pension
Thursday September 15, 1:36 pm ET



Delta Air Lines Inc.'s bankruptcy filing does not relieve it of its responsibility to fund its pension.

Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp. Executive Director Bradley Belt said in a statement on the federal organization's Web site that Delta's (NYSE: DAL - News) pension is underfunded by $10.6 billion with a possible employee loss of $2.2 billion.

The financial challenges facing the airline industry are significant, but nothing in the bankruptcy code requires companies to skip their pension funding payments," Belt said.

Delta (NYSE: DAL - News) is due to pay $150 million to its pension before the end of 2005. Cash-draining pension payments were one factor in Delta's financial downfall.

A bill wending its way through Congress, sponsored by Sen. Johnny Isakson (R-GA), aims to give airlines even more time make good on their pension shortfalls.

But with Senate confirmation hearings on a proposed U.S. Supreme Court justice and the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, the bill couldn't be passed in time to kept Delta out of bankruptcy court.

Bankrupt United Air Lines Inc. this spring terminated its pension at a cost of $6.4 billion, the largest in history, and bankrupt US Airways Group Inc. also has terminated its pensions at a cost of $600 million.

Delta CEO Gerald Grinstein has said that he doesn't want to do that to Delta's employees, who number more than 20,000 in metro Atlanta alone. He has said that Delta wants to pay its obligations, it just needs more time to do it. Published September 15, 2005 by the Atlanta Business Chronicle

 

[FLB717]

Fins,

You sold you AAI stock, not smart.

You think when DAL gets rid of most all its small narrow body (737-200,MD's) and uses 70 and 50 seat RJs that even before cuts cost twice the CSM to operate as our 717 (737 is slightly better than 717) that DAL will beat us? Maybe but not for a few years. And in that time we will have become far less dependant on ATL. As of now it is only half of our revenue.

 

[fam62c]

Grinstein says delta will be O.K.

Well that's good enough for me...if Grinstein says things will be O.K. that must be the case. Honestly; what is the man supposed to say? "I think that we are screwed and we might have to liquidate this pig if oil doesn't come down or the creditors get tired of proping up carriers that continue to lose money. I would like to add that no airline has successfully emerger from Ch.11 since 9/11 and we are going to burn through our DIP financing so fast that it will be like it was never even there. It's my hope that there will be many investors like the good folks that are funding UAL who will pay for us to stay in bankruptcy essentially forever because if we ever need to actually emerge from the process the competition will beat us sensless. In closing I would like to thank General Lee for his continued support and optimism; I appreciate that especially in light of the fact that I intend to take everything he has before I am through here. Thanks for listening.......uh, by the way, does anyone know any good bankruptcy lawyers that we haven't already invited to feed off of our rotting carcass? If you do have them give me a call."

Ten minutes before DAL liquidates he will still be saying that things will be O.K. That's the CEO's job.

 

[FoxHunter]

Delta says can't pay some pensions: Financial News - Yahoo! Finance

 

[dueguard1]

And This Year's Tony Award For "top BuLLsh#t Artist" Goes Toooo...........

 

[General Lee]

Fins,

You sold you AAI stock, not smart.

You think when DAL gets rid of most all its small narrow body (737-200,MD's) and uses 70 and 50 seat RJs that even before cuts cost twice the CSM to operate as our 717 (737 is slightly better than 717) that DAL will beat us? Maybe but not for a few years. And in that time we will have become far less dependant on ATL. As of now it is only half of our revenue.

That is incorrect. I talked to a management pilot today in the ATL lounge and he said that we are trying to keep the MD88s and they out-right own the 737-200s, so if some lessors want to keep some of the MD88s, we would keep the 737-200s a little longer until we replace them. He said that the MAINLINE pilots will be OFFERED new 100 seaters coming from GE leasing--and he thought they would be E190s. He said to expect Jetblue style E190 rates. I think ALPA will go for it, or we will be a lot smaller airline---and less dues for DALPA. As far as more 70 seaters, DCI will get some, but they will be used to replace the 50 seaters. He mentioned some ideas for pay cuts, but did not knopw the specific requests since he was not a negotiator. Expect eventual 100 seaters like E190s in Mainline configuration flying against AT 717s, and then there will be a merger with NW or as he speculated---NW/CAL/DL.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Delta says can't pay some pensions: Financial News - Yahoo! Finance

The PBGC is not on top of the list for creditors I don't think, and probably won't get paid anyway if the judge allows it. They can ask, but probably will not get it and probably will have an extra $8.4 billion bill on it's hands unless Congress does something really quick. A 14 year extension doesn't help much when you owe $10.6 billion. Time to dump it, IMO. Hey, we have insurance.....(the PBGC)


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Boeingman]

That is incorrect. I talked to a management pilot today in the ATL lounge and he said that we are trying to keep the MD88s and they out-right own the 737-200s, so if some lessors want to keep some of the MD88s, we would keep the 737-200s a little longer until we replace them. He said that the MAINLINE pilots will be OFFERED new 100 seaters coming from GE leasing--and he thought they would be E190s. He said to expect Jetblue style E190 rates. I think ALPA will go for it, or we will be a lot smaller airline---and less dues for DALPA. As far as more 70 seaters, DCI will get some, but they will be used to replace the 50 seaters. He mentioned some ideas for pay cuts, but did not knopw the specific requests since he was not a negotiator. Expect eventual 100 seaters like E190s in Mainline configuration flying against AT 717s, and then there will be a merger with NW or as he speculated---NW/CAL/DL.


Bye Bye--General Lee

This spells real trouble for AirTran if DAL ALPA allows 190's in their back yard at JB payscales.

As far as the merger with CAL, I wouldn't hold my breath on that one. If so, I would love to talk to some of some of your more arrogant fellas and ask them if they still believe we should be stapled to the bottom of your list as was the plan in 97.

Like I always told that idiot FlyDeltasJets....."Never throw stones in glass houses".

 

[General Lee]

This spells real trouble for AirTran if DAL ALPA allows 190's in their back yard at JB payscales.

As far as the merger with CAL, I wouldn't hold my breath on that one. If so, I would love to talk to some of some of your more arrogant fellas and ask them if they still believe we should be stapled to the bottom of your list as was the plan in 97.

Like I always told that idiot FlyDeltasJets....."Never throw stones in glass houses".

They weren't ALPA back then, and had more scabs. Some are still there now. Since they are both ALPA now, it makes things easier. Why do you think ALPA took CAL back so fast? The possibility of future mergers. And, CAL may decide to go into Chap 11 too if DL and NW get too many competitive advantages. Sad but true. It is likely we may dump $8.4 billion in pension obligations on the PBGC-----I bet CAL would love to do the same. (not as much probably) Business is business.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[bafanguy]

Delta says can't pay some pensions: Financial News - Yahoo! Finance

Well, this flies in the face of what GG said in a memo to retirees yesterday. Can the picture have changed so radically in 24 hours ? Standby for an avalanche of innuendo, supposition, half-truths, incomplete or misinterpreted facts, and total BS.

 

[Boeingman]

They weren't ALPA back then, and had more scabs. Some are still there now. Since they are both ALPA now, it makes things easier. Why do you think ALPA took CAL back so fast? The possibility of future mergers. And, CAL may decide to go into Chap 11 too if DL and NW get too many competitive advantages. Sad but true. It is likely we may dump $8.4 billion in pension obligations on the PBGC-----I bet CAL would love to do the same. (not as much probably) Business is business.


Bye Bye--General Lee

I see. So because of the scabs it was alright to punish the entire CAL pilot list?
Or, because we weren't ALPA the whole list should be punished? Sorry General, but that argument doesn't fly at all with me.

It is that kind of arrogance that makes my blood pressure rise about ALPA and those who blindly follow their mantra. I used to love watching the looks of some of the Delta Double Breasted A--h---s spotting myself in a CAL uniform sans ALPA pin. The assumptions and comments were truly interesting.

ALPA took CAL back for one reason and one reason only. Dues. It is all about money. Nothing more. Nothing less.

You are right about one thing General. Business is business. Should a merger ever occur (and I seriously doubt it) I can assure you the CAL pilots with push the career expectation issue very hard under ALPA merger policy.

Like I always told my Delta buddies they should keep their mouth shut because someday, god forbid, what we went through may happen over there.

That day has arrived.

 

[JT8D]

ALPA took CAL back for one reason and one reason only. Dues. It is all about money. Nothing more. Nothing less.

.

Bingo.

 

[General Lee]

I see. So because of the scabs it was alright to punish the entire CAL pilot list?
Or, because we weren't ALPA the whole list should be punished? Sorry General, but that argument doesn't fly at all with me.

It is that kind of arrogance that makes my blood pressure rise about ALPA and those who blindly follow their mantra. I used to love watching the looks of some of the Delta Double Breasted A--h---s spotting myself in a CAL uniform sans ALPA pin. The assumptions and comments were truly interesting.

ALPA took CAL back for one reason and one reason only. Dues. It is all about money. Nothing more. Nothing less.

You are right about one thing General. Business is business. Should a merger ever occur (and I seriously doubt it) I can assure you the CAL pilots with push the career expectation issue very hard under ALPA merger policy.

Like I always told my Delta buddies they should keep their mouth shut because someday, god forbid, what we went through may happen over there.

That day has arrived.

And your point is? Do you think you won't be there again? I am not trying to be cocky, but think that there will be some consolidation eventually. DL and NW will cut pensions and debt obligations and make it really tempting for your management to do the same. As far as career expectations goes, well, you are retiring 2600 pilots over the next three years--I have been here 9 years---I should be senior to everyone who has recently been hired this year. I can't wait to do Delhi or Beijing from EWR on the 777. You need to take a chill pill there chief, and understand that your company could be next. Yeah, you had a small profit last quarter, but gas is higher now and you still have to pay those pensions. You may be back for round 3. You never know. Career expectations? What are those? You sound a bit cocky there--you would have made a great Delta pilot.....


Bye Bye--General Lee