Great News. More Newhires at Southwest

[i fly boxes]

I can answer some of your questions. Before the latest hiring took place, I had only had two classes of new hires beneath me, and I was pretty much stuck in Oakland. The upside to that was that I got most weekends off, although it meant a reserve schedule. I probably could have gotten off of reserve there, but bid specifically for weekends off. As soon as the hiring started and new classes started coming on the line, I got based at MDW, so for me, as soon as I got about 5 classes below me, I got out of OAK. Had weekends off not been important to me, I could have had LAS or PHX along the way. The majority of trips are 3 and 4 day trips, and reserve blocks (with a few exceptions) are all 3 & 4 days. If you have a non-reserve line and want to trade weekend trips for weekday trips, you can trade with trips the company hasn't covered using what we call ELITT (electronic line improvement trip trade). Weekday trips always go first once they come up, but with patience and time in front of your computer, you can slowly but surely find some trades for yourself.

Another thing you can do is put all of your stuff in give away, and if it goes, you can pick up extra fly or VJA (voluntary junior assign) from the company. You can also possibly find people who want to trade their weekday trip for your trip. Lots of possibilities to get out of weekend flying, but don't expect weekends off until you get a few classes below you in base, and then expect that you will still most likely have to sit reserve if you want weekends off.

The basic order of bases by seniority, from junior to senior is (as of right now): OAK, LAS, PHX, MDW, HOU, BWI, MCO, DAL. In the recent past, BWI was more senior to MCO, but that seems to have changed.

Thanks that was very informative. If I may ask a follow up question - what are the reserve duty periods like? Can you start a period with a late show and and early show on the last day?

 

[NWaviator]

Back to the main subject.... anyone know how many SWA plans on hiring? Are we talking 20 or 120? Thoughts?

 

[Ky.BrownBourbn]

Your right about the price. I haven't done a very detailed search since I don't care that much but you guys are not as cheap as you once were. Many times that I have friends that need to go to Florida or the east coast you are one of the most expensive if not middle of the road. I don't worry about any legacy competing with your prices. As you start going long haul international your costs will skyrocket for that segment to be sustained and you wont be selling any cheaper than anyone else. Just another player in a big big game. Welcome but you aren't scaring anyone.

After the line YOU highlighted, I stated "People will buy what's perceived as cheapest", We advertise we're a low fare airline, we didn't advertise we are the "Cheapest Airline"...Perceived Cheapest!

Many more buy tickets on everyone else because the ticket may be less, but after you add all the other fees, it really isn't. The reason the "Bags Fly Free" campaign is successful.

I never said anything about being scared.

KBB

 

[Ky.BrownBourbn]

Thanks that was very informative. If I may ask a follow up question - what are the reserve duty periods like? Can you start a period with a late show and and early show on the last day?

Very unlikely, Unless scheduling switches your duty period!
KBB

 

[Tripower455]

It's interesting that that you see so many SWA guys jumping up and down about "someday we will fly International!" If that was so important to you, why didn't you just go to a carrier that already did? Obviously you could never reach the level of International service that DAL does, yet you guys jump up and down like it's the holy grail.

Not me.... If I never fly international, it will be too soon.

Give me lots of time off and a good paycheck to enjoy it and I'm happy. Even with the occasional LBB layover!

 

[BE200drvr]

How many does swa plan to hire??

Will the type be necessary anymore?

Can the hiring info be verified?

Thanks,

P.s the rhetoric about SLI gets old.

 

[Donald]

There was a recent Check airman meeting in Dallas, and Tortie was quoted as saying that our days of one type of aircraft are coming to an end, and not referring to the 717. We will need wide-body/long range type. He was also quoted as saying our current FO's will have to decide between Domestic capt or International FO. Significant growth after the acquisition (no numbers) so whoever ends up low on seniority after the SLI, it won't last long. My guess is there could be some big announcements after the purchase is complete.

 

[GuppyWN]

Not worried at all. I don't subscribe to the "my airline can beat up your airline" mindset. Any posts that may seem that way (see above) are meant to counter that attitude.
As far as Hawaii goes, it's a very big market and will always have a lot of airlines flying there. Hawaiian seems to have no problem filling up any 767's or A330's we fly to the mainland. Hawaiian has a very strong presence in the market and because they are uniquely "Hawaiian" people like to fly on them to start their Hawaii vacation. The seat mile costs on a 767/A330 are quite a bit lower than any 737 that could be used to fly to Hawaii and of course 737's don't have the same passenger appeal on a trans-pac flight. But if you fly to Hawaii I'm sure you will carry a lot of people here which is good for the State, which in turn is good for Hawaiian Air. So no, I'm not to worried. Inter-Island would take a huge investment by SWA to go after a very small profit potential. It's a very complex deal and there is much more to it than you think. Bottom line is you would spend a lot of money chasing a market with very limited potential for you. SWA is way to smart to do that.
Hawaiians latest focus is on Asia. We just started and are carrying high loads with high yields to Japan and Korea. I suspect we will also be adding non stops to the east coast soon.

You just made the case for SWA to buy Hawaiin to make the next step toward being a global airline.

Gup

 

[jonjuan]

There was a recent Check airman meeting in Dallas, and Tortie was quoted as saying that our days of one type of aircraft are coming to an end, and not referring to the 717. We will need wide-body/long range type. He was also quoted as saying our current FO's will have to decide between Domestic capt or International FO. Significant growth after the acquisition (no numbers) so whoever ends up low on seniority after the SLI, it won't last long. My guess is there could be some big announcements after the purchase is complete.

tortie isnt privy to what A/C management will be buying.

 

[GuppyWN]

tortie isnt privy to what A/C management will be buying.

Wanna bet? Since he is THE GUY who has to design the training program I'd think he'd be rather plugged in....... and it's Torti, not Tortie.

Gup

 

[RyansDad]

Back to the main subject.... anyone know how many SWA plans on hiring? Are we talking 20 or 120? Thoughts?

I have heard 100-120 on top of the 188 already hired this year. I also heard that they were only planning on interviewing around 180.. when i interviewed in 07 it seemed like they were interviewing groups of around 20 and maybe 5 or so at the most getting the nod... so if you get an interview it looks like the odds of getting an offer are a lot better than in the past. I haven't seen anything official but even rumors of hiring are a good thing... best of luck to all who want to sign up..

 

[Mickey D]

Thanks that was very informative. If I may ask a follow up question - what are the reserve duty periods like? Can you start a period with a late show and and early show on the last day?

To answer in the most simplistic terms, generally the answer is no. We have AM reserve blocks and PM reserve blocks with 2 hour callouts. Once assigned, you don't change from an AM to PM. There are times when the company has asked me to switch from a PM to an AM prior to my reserve block beginning, and I have agreed, since AM trips allow for me to commute home on the same day as my reserve block ending.

 

[Roomwithaview]

Jj

tortie isnt privy to what A/C management will be buying.

I'm not sure what you mean by that statement. Torti is very knowledgeable about what aircraft he will be tasked to train pilots on. It is my understanding that there will be 717 training done in Dallas but that's what they are telling us so, yes, it is one sided. I don't know anything about AAI's training or maintenance but would like to be enlightened.

I spoke to a mechanic that told me that our MX guys are at this time getting trained on the B717. But, that's one sided as well. Do you guys farm out any of your maintenance work and training or is it all done in house?

 

[jonjuan]

You just made the case for SWA to buy Hawaiin to make the next step toward being a global airline.

Gup

Which is why delta airlines will snap them up before southwest gets its mitts on them. $10 bucks, or 2 Jack and Cokes and 4 beers at your next ELP overnight. Besides, it's Hawaiian.

 

[Muskycat]

Your right about the price. I haven't done a very detailed search since I don't care that much but you guys are not as cheap as you once were. Many times that I have friends that need to go to Florida or the east coast you are one of the most expensive if not middle of the road. I don't worry about any legacy competing with your prices. As you start going long haul international your costs will skyrocket for that segment to be sustained and you wont be selling any cheaper than anyone else. Just another player in a big big game. Welcome but you aren't scaring anyone.[/QUOTE

Exactly Monster Buck.

What people also forget the big money maker in international flying is also hauling cargo. Bigger planes haul more and the passengers are just the icing on the cake.

 

[Donald]

As far as hiring numbers, its anyones guess. My question is: Although both airlines will continue to operate under their own cert for some time after the signing, will SWA aircraft and crews be able to start serving the AAI cities that SWA will be gaining and vice/versa? If so, there could be significant room for growth just linking up the two route structures. ie, BWI-ATL, MDW-ATL, HOU-ATL, etc. And that's just ATL

 

[Mickey D]

I got an email from the OAK SWAPA reps on 2/28 that said, "we're going to hire 100 more pilots ASAP" and mentioned a slow down in how applications are taken and sorted and then mentions the window opening soon, as it just did. I'd say then that 100 (hopefully more) seems to be a pretty good estimate for this window.

I'd be willing to wager that this won't be the only hiring window we see open up this year. I think that they just don't want the pool to grow too large and have people wading in it for significant periods of time like before. That scenario is not favorable for the applicants or the company.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Bob, this post shows a complete lack of knowledge concerning arbitrated precedent. Without a doubt, all new hires post Sep 27th will be effectively stapled to the ISL. And I am sure that they all realize that. At least I hope so.

PapaWoody

So then will the contract comparison and career expectation snapshot be for pre Sept. 27th also?

Yikes, if so that one is really going to come back and bite the AirTran guys in the butt. I guess they can't have it both ways, but so much for using the new AirTran pay rates.

 

[StopNTSing]

tortie isnt privy to what A/C management will be buying.

How does a Delta guy, of all people, know what info Tortie is or is not privy to?

 

[texman]

Is this why we are hiring 100+.

Sun Country Airlines is close to being sold, according to court documents filed this week.
In a filing made Monday in the bankruptcy case of former Sun Country owner Tom Petters, trustee Doug Kelley said he "is anticipating accepting a letter of intent from a proposed purchaser shortly."
The name of the potential buyer wasn't disclosed, and neither was a purchase price.
Kelley asked U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Gregory Kishel to seal the name of the potential buyers, their offer and the minimum offer the airline would be willing to accept while the deal is being negotiated. A hearing on the matter is set for Tuesday.
Kelley said his ability to negotiate a price for the sale of the Twin Cities airline "will be hindered" if he can't provide assurance that the price being offered will be accepted by shareholders.


Sun Country Airlines close to being sold | Minneapolis / St. Paul Business Journal

 

[dh82dvr]

So then will the contract comparison and career expectation snapshot be for pre Sept. 27th also?

Yikes, if so that one is really going to come back and bite the AirTran guys in the butt. I guess they can't have it both ways, but so much for using the new AirTran pay rates.

You never seems to miss a chance to take another shot at the AT guys.
uke:

 

[redflyer65]

Heard there will be no more 'pools' at all. Hired then in class in a short period of time.

RF

 

[737tanker]

is it true that you can be kicked out of your base any time there is a vacancy if more senior people decide to bid for it?

At SWA you can't be kicked out of your base because a senior guy decides to bid for it. The only way you can get kicked out by a more senior pilot is by displacement. Say you where the junior pilot in BWI and it had no reduction or addition it would appear that you would be safe. But if 1 slot was taken out of MCO and added to OAK you could end up in OAK. That is because if the junior MCO pilot being displaced was senior to you he could chose to go to BWI instead of OAK. That would then cause you to be displaced to OAK. So the simple answer is you can't be bumped out of your seat/base except by displacements.

 

[Roomwithaview]

I've got an even simpler answer

You can hold whatever base your seniority allows you to hold.

 

[PapaWoody]

You can hold whatever base your seniority allows you to hold.

Not necessarily. See 737tanker's explanation of displacement, that is a pretty good summary of how secure your seat is in a base that you have been able to bid. But, even though you may be senior to someone in a certain base, unless there is a vacancy in that base, you will not be able to knock them out of that base. However, if there is a displacement from that base, when they re-add those positions there is no right of return (i.e. the pilot that was displaced has no special claim to return to that base). IMO one of the things that should change in our next contract, if not before.

Fraternally,
PapaWoody

 

[Roomwithaview]

Papa

Let me make sure I have this correct. If I'm in a base that I'm senior enough to hold then I cannot be bumped out. How simple is that?

 

[GuppyWN]

b. If an insufficient number of pilots have bid to leave the base, the most junior pilots will
be displaced. Pilots so displaced may displace pilots in other domiciles where no vacancy
exists based on their system seniority, thereby causing a secondary displacement.

Thanks Papa. That was a swing and a miss by me.

Gup

(edited cause I was wrong)

 

[PapaWoody]

Let me simply. OK not really but.....

There are ONLY two ways to be displaced from your base.

1. You are very near the bottom in your base and there is a reduction IN YOUR BASE that engulfs you. You could be dead last Captain in Houston junior to the dead last Captain in Dallas. If Dallas has a -10 Captains and Houston is +/-0 but the SYSTEM bid does not reduce the total number of Captains then the displaced Dallas guy canNOT bump you from Houston and he ends up displaced to his #3 choice.

2. You are very near the bottom in your base and there is a SYSTEM REDUCTION in your seat that causes a cascading reduction. All bets are off because the corporate **** is hitting the fan and the company is reducing seats. (this happened in 1/10 and we downgraded about 75 Captains)

Bluntly put, if you are not in the bottom 5%(ish) in your base you should survive any shift/reduction. We have NO right of return policy.

Gup

#1 is incorrect, Gup. If a CA senior to you gets displaced out of his 1st choice, then he can displace you out of his second choice. In your example, the DAL CA senior to you will displace you from HOU if that is his second choice. He can't bid into that base to displace you, but he will bump you if he himself is displaced. In other words, ******************** rolls downhill.

Cheers,
PapaWoody

 

[On Your Six]

Two viewpoints to consider OYS -

• The Airtran deal blows up and the newhires be in great shape.
• SWA has never flown outside the USA and we sustain 6000 pilots. What happens WHEN, not if, we leave the country.

You're Delta has a load of retirements coming....... that's all you've got. SWA still has 1,000's of pilots of upside before we saturate our possibilities.

Come on in boys and girls! I look forward to seeing you in class.

Gup

I read we will have 2000 Captains retiring in the next 5 years, and 4000 total in the next 10 years. When 1 retirement equals 15 upward movements because of the various sized aircraft, I would say that is really good. I feel fairly lucky.

You said the Airtran deal might "blow up.". That would be SWAPA maybe stating that, not GK and Wall Street. They want the merger, and SWAPA just wants ALPA to give in to it's unfair demands.

Next you stated SWA might fly big International possibly. If you try, you will not only get attacked by Legacies, but also international LCCs like Ryanair, Easyjet, and others. That won't be fun, for anyone, and it would be an even larger investment than your $3.4 billion investment in Airtran. And International LCCs flying to Europe haven't done well yet, like People's Express. Sounds like SWA would have to slowly turn into a Legacy, with all of those problems coming along with it. Your famous culture would get lost in the mix.


OYS

 

[GuppyWN]

I think the deal will go through with little to none of the drama on this forum and SWA will be bigger and better for it in the future - to include flying international destinations.

But you're right - Delta et al aren't going to let us just waltz in and take it.

I like that 4000 pilots needed in 10 years! Be a nice boost for you guys.
Gup