Goodbye ASA!!!

[FightingIrish]

My push was done in a purely ethical manner... the flowthru wasn't what I was pushing for, but a staple, with DOH for pay, but not bid.. I.E. the 15 year ASA CRJ CA, couldn't bid ahead of any DAL pilot, but he loses 0 in terms of pay. We then would have had a unified seniority list with one goal.. what we are left with now is two competing lists, one of which is squarely on the side of management (that of the regional).

Sorry if I though you were post-haunting me... people (with no life) around here tend to do that stuff.

No worries. It's been awhile since we talked, but you were looking for work over a year ago and I had suggested maybe coming back to ASA as we were hiring then (obviously that has changed). You were actually interested in that prospect. That is why you have to understand the point of view of some of us who have chosen to stay here. Your proposal at the time would have resulted in senior ASA pilots getting bumped out of their cushy schedules. You won't get anywhere if you propose that.

I agree that we need to work together, but I think that mainline pilots have to understand the position of the "lifers" if we are going to work together.

Are you still flying? Good luck.

 

[HA25]

No worries. It's been awhile since we talked, but you were looking for work over a year ago and I had suggested maybe coming back to ASA as we were hiring then (obviously that has changed). You were actually interested in that prospect. That is why you have to understand the point of view of some of us who have chosen to stay here. Your proposal at the time would have resulted in senior ASA pilots getting bumped out of their cushy schedules. You won't get anywhere if you propose that.

I agree that we need to work together, but I think that mainline pilots have to understand the position of the "lifers" if we are going to work together.

Are you still flying? Good luck.

Yeah, the going back was a non-starter because I think I burned bridges there with senior pilots, plus I would have only taken a direct entry CA job as I couldn't afford the other option and that wasn't being offered (they did this back when I was there... they hired a few guys back from Pan Am that were direct entry CA's on the ATR).

Back when we talked, I believe I was working for Gemini and was getting weary of their long term prospects (I was proven correct when they finally shut down). I have since worked at Skybus (along with furloughed pilots from just about every major airline, and some retired ones as well).. which also subsequently failed.

I am currently a contract pilot on the A320 for a leasing company in in the Southwest US. I am doing "ok" with it, but it's not full time.. and not long term / steady work.

 

[enuffalready]

And there you have it ladies and gentleman... THE PROBLEM with our profession.

Lowest bidder will always win!

Grats enuff... you won.. Since American, I've bounced from one low paying job to another, and all the same time you've been at the same low paying job.. you won.

I truly am sorry for anyone's misfortune that you and/or your family have suffered, but like it or not we live in a world of moral hazard. if you were a stud navy guy 40 years ago you went to TWA, Pan Am or Eastern,... all gone. We all take chances and measure risks with any decision we make or action we take. If i stay at ASA there is a risk, if i leave there is a risk. Neither of those risks are anyone elses reponsibility but mine. If i stay I will fight for better QOL at ASA, if i choose to leave, I will fight for the best possible condtions for me and my family, whether i move to fly a 757 or sit in a desk in a building somewhere.

You can choose to call that 'a problem with our profession'

I choose to call it being self sufficient regardless of what happens.

 

[HA25]

I choose to call it being self sufficient regardless of what happens.

I played the self sufficient game quit well; do you know how much hell I get for going to work for Skybus? I know it's dog eat dog.. but I TRIED my best to do it right.. I went to a "commuter" (as ASA was known back in the mid 90's).. and I got on with the MAJOR.. I didn't go there to make a career of it. Had scope clauses not been destroyed so badly (partly due to APA, and partly due to ALPA) I, and likely you would be there now.. and ASA would still have 600 pilots, mostly younger and building time, providing feed from Dothan to ATL and not flying ATL to ELP (or where ever trans con's you're all doing now)..

It's broken, and you all helped break it.. that's my point.

 

[FightingIrish]

Back when we talked, I believe I was working for Gemini and was getting weary of their long term prospects (I was proven correct when they finally shut down). I have since worked at Skybus (along with furloughed pilots from just about every major airline, and some retired ones as well).. which also subsequently failed.

How can you go to work for Skybus and then lecture anyone else about "hurting the profession". You did what you needed to do, but you are contributing to the same problem that you criticize others for. I am sorry that things haven't worked out for you, but attacking those of us at ASA isn't helping.

 

[HA25]

How can you go to work for Skybus and then lecture anyone else about "hurting the profession". You did what you needed to do, but you are contributing to the same problem that you criticize others for. I am sorry that things haven't worked out for you, but attacking those of us at ASA isn't helping.

It's simple.. I had no choice in the matter. Most of the people I flew with at SX came from legacy carriers who had no choice. Don't blindly jump on the bandwagon about SX.. it's far more complicated than what you read on internet forums.

In the end, I wouldn't have been in the position to seek work with them if I hadn't been furloughed from American as they continued to hire strongly at Eagle.. I didn't make the rules (ALPA and MEC's like ASA's did), I just live by them.

 

[FightingIrish]

It's simple.. I had no choice in the matter. Most of the people I flew with at SX came from legacy carriers who had no choice. Don't blindly jump on the bandwagon about SX.. it's far more complicated than what you read on internet forums.

In the end, I wouldn't have been in the position to seek work with them if I hadn't been furloughed from American as they continued to hire strongly at Eagle.. I didn't make the rules (ALPA and MEC's like ASA's did), I just live by them.

You had no choice? I thought you had a side business and didn't really need the flying job? You have done things to harm the profession, yet you blame others. I can see why you burned some bridges here.

 

[HA25]

You had no choice? I thought you had a side business and didn't really need the flying job? You have done things to harm the profession, yet you blame others. I can see why you burned some bridges here.

Are you serious? You know the books of my side business now too? and my expenses, mortgage situation, etc? If it makes you feel better to blame me (and the few months of operation of Skybus last year) for the state of the airline industry then go for it dude... maybe you'll sleep better for it. I'm finished here. But you might want to look up the definition of "Time Line" when you decide to lay blame on where it went all wrong.

You might re-read my response here btw...

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showpost.php?p=1814179&postcount=69

 

[FightingIrish]

Are you serious? You know the books of my side business now too? and my expenses, mortgage situation, etc? If it makes you feel better to blame me (and the few months of operation of Skybus last year) for the state of the airline industry then go for it dude... maybe you'll sleep better for it. I'm finished here. But you might want to look up the definition of "Time Line" when you decide to lay blame on where it went all wrong.

I'm only going by what you said in another post.

I made (no lie) 10 times more money speculation with my small inheritance in real estate between late 2003 and 2006 than I did in the rest of my entire flying career.... I have a high net worth and don't really even need to work, I've done so well in business and real estate.. YET... At every single job interview I've done to get back into flying (as I sadly really love it!).. I've had to explain my "commitment" to flying and why I took this time off to some dip$hit who doesn't get it...

Those are your own words. I'm not blaiming you taking a job at Skybus for the state of the industry, but you are blaiming those of us who have chosen to stay at the regionals for your woes. You played a part in the same thing you now blame others for.

 

[HA25]

I'm only going by what you said in another post.



Those are your own words. I'm not blaiming you taking a job at Skybus for the state of the industry, but you are blaiming those of us who have chosen to stay at the regionals for your woes. You played a part in the same thing you now blame others for.

Have you followed the real estate market since I sent that to you in 2006?

nvm.. you win.. the industry is in disarray not because of the growth at the regionals, but because of Skybus.

 

[FightingIrish]

Have you followed the real estate market since I sent that to you in 2006?

nvm.. you win.. the industry is in disarray not because of the growth at the regionals, but because of Skybus.

Actually you wrote it less than a year ago. You wrote it last June along with this.

Cause I like flying for a living... having independent wealth isn't the same as having a job.

edit: Like I said, if you think I'm BSing you, pm me your email and I'll forward pics of some of my toys, including $20K watches, Custom guitars, a Mercedes, a BMW, and a $8500 mountain bike but to name a few things.. I'm not trying to turn this into a show and tell, but you all seem to question my value as a result of my jobs.. Heck! I'll bet the set of luggage I just got to travel with costs more than some of your cars. If you want to question my value as a result of working at Skybus, fine.. so I'm going to see you and raise you.. what's YOUR net worth?

You took the job at Skybus while you had all this wealth. Skybus pilots were making less than many ASA pilots yet you want to blame us. You aren't going to solve this problem by alienating those of us at the regionals.

 

[HA25]

My first contact with you was in Nov 2006... (retracted as the posts were in fact not pms)

 

[FightingIrish]

My first contact with you was in Nov 2006... Now please take down my personal PM's as per the forum rules.

They aren't PM quotes. They are quotes you made in public threads on here. Your credibility is quickly fading.

 

[HA25]

They aren't PM quotes. They are quotes you made in public threads on here. Your credibility is quickly fading.

not at all... my working at SX is a symptom of the disease the regionals are on the industry.. I had to work, or sit on my butt.. I chose to work at one of the few jobs that were open at the time. go back and re-read my posts here, I am consistent and I stand by everything I am saying.

out.

 

[FightingIrish]

not at all... my working at SX is a symptom of the disease the regionals are on the industry.. I had to work, or sit on my butt.. I chose to work at one of the few jobs that were open at the time. go back and re-read my posts here, I am consistent and I stand by everything I am saying.

out.

You were flying A320s for less than ASA pilots were flying RJs for and by your own words, you didn't have to because you had a high net worth and lots of toys. You sir are a hypocrit.

You even took a job at the very regionals you blame for the problem. You sound a little bitter and you want to blame others.