Good First Officers?

[Dave Benjamin]

Mooneymite had a great post a while back. It was in response to a post made by an FO who was unhappy with his "butthole captain." Here it is for your reading enjoyment......

A "Butthole" Captain is no different from any other cockpit anomaly that has to be managed. Engines fail, hydraulics leak, generators drop off line and captains have brain farts. Just another situation in the life of a professional pilot.



Why not take the original post and substitute an aircraft system for the "butthole captain" and I think you will see the weakness is not the frailty of the offensive captain, but the inability of the first officer to cope appropriately.



After serving 16 years as a first officer and another 18 as the ______ (you fill in the blank) captain, I can tell you that personalities and personal foibles are a fact of life in the cockpit. It is just as important to be able to manage a malfunctioning crewmember as it is to manage an engine failure...maybe more important.



Copilots fall into two major categories: co-operators and competitors. Co-operators work with the captain to complete the assigned mission. They are respectful of the captain's position and understanding of the captain's limitations. Competitors are copilots who are continually vying to prove their superiority to themsleves. They understand NOTHING of the choreography of the two man cockpit. They try to do the captain's job better than the captain while neglecting the tasks that the captain counts on the co-pilot to do. For the co-operators, CRM is a guide to a peaceful, safe operation. For the competitors, CRM is a manifesto of "you're not the boss of me". A four day trip with a co-operator is a pleasure. A four day trip with a competitor is a nighmare.



Being a copilot is much harder than being a captain. To play a good second fiddle, you gotta listen to the tune of the first fiddle. Harmony, or cacaphony...what's it going to be?

 

[Patriot328]

She will pick the one with the fatter wallet!


C425Driver

fluckin hilarious

 

[say again]

Buy my beer and you've earned my respect!!!

Don't wake me up, if there's a major problem, the horns, bell, and whistles will do it.

Don't ask me to do the preflight, set up the FMS, because I don't remember how.

Offer to fly every leg, I just can't do it anymore.

Be a good wing man, nothing worse than having someone kill the mood with the women.

If I think of more I'll let you know.

 

[Ty Webb]

The time I look for the most help is at the gate and on the ground.

When receiving the aircraft or changing aircraft, there are a lot of paperwork "gotcha's" to sort through, so if you get there first, check the logbook and other basic stuff to make sure that we get a head start on any changes that need to be made, but it's preferrable to brief me when I get there, . . . . "Captain, I noticed the ____ is _____ Do you want me to call mx?". If it is something cut-and-dried like a required MX check or an open item from the last crew, then call MX and get them out.

On the ground, especially at airports we don't get to very often, always have your "10-9" out and open, please. They may throw somethng unusual at us, and on the ground is the easiest place to get a violation, or at least look stupid.

Other than that- don't stop thinking . . . you are a captain in training. If something doesn't look right, speak up, but a little diplomacy works wonders. Work as a team. Keep it fun, but professional, especially on the radio. Oh, yeah, the radio . . . . when you are getting the ATIS and clearance, it's common courtesy to say, "ATIS (or clearance) coming up on Com 2" or something like that . . . always appreciated, by me at least.

 

[Flechas]

. . . . "Captain, I noticed the ____ is _____ Do you want me to call mx?".
Oh, yeah, the radio . . . . when you are getting the ATIS and clearance, it's common courtesy to say, "ATIS (or clearance) coming up on Com 2" or something like that . . . always appreciated, by me at least.

Do you ask them to call you captain? When this happens I know it's gonna be a long 4 day trip.

Also, whatdo you mean about letting you know about the ATIS, so you can listen to it as well?

 

[skyaddict]

Well, you really did open yourself up for a huge joke thread. But all that essay question dribble aside as to what makes a good CA or FO aside, the main thing you need to survive as an FO is to become a chameleon- constantly adapting to the myriad Captain personalities and non-standard fetishes/peeves that they have. It almost means having a little filing card on each Captain.

I have been lucky to fly with mostly competent, laid back Captains, but of course have had to put up with some pricks, too. (A competent prick is bad enough, but an incompetent one is much worse.) For example, there are the ones who preach SOP but have a list of quirky little personal things, right down to the release having to be folded like some oregami artwork, or who insists on carrying over some wierd little callouts from his last company or airplane. Or the ones who make you always feel rushed and behind (esp. when new to an airplane, or company) but won't make the slightest effort to set up some avionics while you are busy with some other task. However, these guys reap what they sow through their poor CRM. Inevitably you'll run into some guys who think that fourth stripe somehow confers greatness on them - they are usually the ones who upgraded immediately and never served more than few months as an FO to appreciate what it is like. If you run into an overbearing micromanager Capt., which is esp. likely if they know you are low time, then you will mostly have to suck it up- tune out their micromanaging and just be standard and look forward to the next month's line. And always, always be assertive (albeit respectful) if they compromise safety themselves, and debrief it later. Good luck.

 

[Ty Webb]

Do you ask them to call you captain? When this happens I know it's gonna be a long 4 day trip.

If you have people telling you to call them "Capt", it may be a reflection of something you are doing. I have ever asked anyone to call me Capt.

Also, whatdo you mean about letting you know about the ATIS, so you can listen to it as well?

Uh, yeah. I like to hear the WX and clearance. It's called "staying in the loop". If you don;t know about this most basic courtesy, no wonder you've got some of 'em telling you to call them "Capt".

 

[Flechas]

If you have people telling you to call them "Capt", it may be a reflection of something you are doing. I have ever asked anyone to call me Capt.



Uh, yeah. I like to hear the WX and clearance. It's called "staying in the loop". If you don;t know about this most basic courtesy, no wonder you've got some of 'em telling you to call them "Capt".

Man, lighten up!!! I was just asking you. Frst, I have never had anyone tell me to call them Captain, and second, about the ATIS, I was just asking what you meant. We have ATIS card and always write down the WX, so both can be in the loop.

 

[Ty Webb]

[Edited to observe Murphy's rule about arguing with a fool].

 

[Flechas]

What an idiot, you must be a joy to fly with, no wonder nobody likes you here and planes cut you off on the taxiways.

 

[say again]

Uh, yeah. I like to hear the WX and clearance. It's called "staying in the loop". If you don;t know about this most basic courtesy, no wonder you've got some of 'em telling you to call them "Capt".

Why don't you just get the ATIS and clearance yourself?? I do just fine "staying in the loop" by letting the FO get, and write down the ATIS and clearance. After, we go over what he has written in our briefings. Shocking, huh!!??
BTW, you are the first person that I've heard who does this. Do you not trust your FO's to write down the correct info?

 

[Ty Webb]

you must be a joy to fly with

Maybe someday, when you have grown up, you'll get the opportunity to find out.

no wonder nobody likes you here

Oh, I don;t know about that. Out of the thousand or so PM's I have gotten here over the years, about 90% of them are favorable. If you don't like my posts- then don;t read them. It's not like they aren;t clearly marked. Put me on your "ignore" list. . . . you won;t hurt my feelings.

 

[Ty Webb]

Why don't you just get the ATIS and clearance yourself??

Hmm, because that's not our SOP.

BTW, you are the first person that I've heard who does this. Do you not trust your FO's to write down the correct info?

Actually, Sparky, most of the guys I have been flying with are former TWA, American, United or USAirways guys. Most of them were Captains when you were still pooping in your diapers, and most of them announce they are getting clearance and ATIS as a courtesy (clearly something that you don;t understand) . . . . seems like a pretty nice gesture, one that I always appreciate and just thought I would pass it along.

Again, it is just a courtesy, but it is clear to see that you and Flechas, with your vast experience, are clearly superior to these Airmen I have been flying with. I'll be sure to let them know about this transgression, and we'll start doing it YOUR way, you ignorant little pup.

Second thought, maybe you just stick to the "chicken and the fat one". . . .

 

[Flechas]

Maybe someday, when you have grown up, you'll get the opportunity to find out. .

Don't worry, I have no desire to work for Airtran, I'd rather stay here for the rest of my career.

 

[say again]

Oh, I don;t know about that. Out of the thousand or so PM's I have gotten here over the years, about 90% of them are favorable. If you don't like my posts- then don;t read them. It's not like they aren;t clearly marked. Put me on your "ignore" list. . . . you won;t hurt my feelings.

Would you please learn to use an apostrophe correctly!!! Or not, its kind of amusing.

 

[Flechas]

but it is clear to see that you and Flechas, with your vast experience, are clearly superior to these Airmen I have been flying with.

It's not about being superior, maybe that's the way they learned and the way you learned. Our company culture is to write it down and then then brief it, which is just as good.

 

[Ty Webb]

Would you please learn to use an apostrophe correctly!!! Or not, its kind of amusing.

It's called a "semi-colon". If you want to correct someone's typing, you should at least know the correct term.

I would have thought you would have a better understanding of the colon- since you seem to keep your head in there when it is not holding your hat up.

 

[say again]

Hmm, because that's not our SOP.




Actually, Sparky, most of the guys I have been flying with are former TWA, American, United or USAirways guys. Most of them were Captains when you were still pooping in your diapers, and most of them announce they are getting clearance and ATIS as a courtesy (clearly something that you don;t understand) . . . . seems like a pretty nice gesture, one that I always appreciate and just thought I would pass it along.


Again, it is just a courtesy, but it is clear to see that you and Flechas, with your vast experience, are clearly superior to these Airmen I have been flying with. I'll be sure to let them know about this transgression, and we'll start doing it YOUR way, you ignorant little pup.

Second thought, maybe you just stick to the "chicken and the fat one". . . .

OK, you know your SOP. Good.

My name isn't Sparky, but how would you know. It seems you also know my age, you're good. Seems like you're living in the golden days. Are still waiting for the gorgeous FA's to escort you through th airport?? Again, learn how to use the apostrophe. (NO SEMI-COLON!!!)

It's not my way, (who's the ignorant one?) but the way EVERYONE I've flown has done it. If you could tell them, I would certaintly appreciate it. If you think I'm superior to these airmen, well, thank you. If not, well, thank you anyway.

I like chicken, but I'll let you have the fat one.

 

[say again]

It's called a "semi-colon". If you want to correct someone's typing, you should at least know the correct term.

I would have thought you would have a better understanding of the colon- since you seem to keep your head in there when it is not holding your hat up.

You are dumber than I thought!! This is a semi-colon ;
This is an apostrophe '

You do not spell don't with the semi-colon, you use an apostrophe, you idiot.

Ty Webb's spelling of don't =don;t. Wrong!!!

I also don't wear a hat, so your second statement is incorrect. (not surprising!!) HAHA

Now this is starting to make plenty of sense. No use in arguing with a retard. Adios sped.

BTW- do as you wish. I really don't care. I do this to let out frustrations. It's so easy to get under people's skin.

 

[Ty Webb]

Every summer, it's the same thing.

What's the matter, kid? No friends to play with? Zits got you down? Mommy put "Net Nanny" on your computer, so you can;t even surf for free porn?

Log off, go outside and play. Maybe you won't get beat up this time (you can always hope, right?). Get a summer job. . . . . just quit playing pilot on the message boards. . . . it's getting boring.