Good Community College Pilot Programs?

[pilotyip]

So what are you saying Bobby?

Most go to college, instruct for 1000 hours, get hired by a regional, work there 5 years, make Capt. Then if hiring is going on get picked up by UPS or Fedex, the only ones who need college degrees. Since the majority of pilots follow this career track, it is the career track that everyone must follow to have the highest percentage of success. Is that what you are saying?

 

[Goose Egg]

But I'll kick your butt at chess...

Many have posted they agree it has nothing to do with the mastering on an airplane. I have admitted that the possession of a degree may open doors at a few select places of employment in the airline industry.

This insolent CFI believes that college has everything to do with mastering flying an airplane, the foremost reason being the critical thinking and problem solving capabilities that are gained as an integral part of any degree program. Honestly, those skills have proven invaluable. Forget pay, forget flying big jets. The capacity to understand, strategize, formulate, and just plain old think are the things that I value the most from my college experience.

It makes me think about the girl I am currently seeing. She has not been to any college yet, but she displays an enormous knack for thinking clearly--she is very intelligent. If those skills were refined at college, she'd be virtually unstoppable. Fortunately, I do not have to prod her to to go; she is bright enough to see the virtues on her own.

If a prospective pilots just loves flying airplanes, and would be happy making $70-$100K per year with no debt from college loans, a college degree is not necessary.... But then my focus is on job satisfaction and not upon pay, respect, and prestige. It is about the joy of flying an airplane.

I'd be happy with even less. Heck, if I could buy a house on CFI pay, I'd just stick with instructing! This was never about prestige or making the big bucks. But because I have a degree, I have access to almost any opportunity I should want to pursue, including graduate studies. And because I have a degree, I have the advantage over anyone without a degree but with similar piloting qualifications should they happen to desire the same job that I do.

-Goose

 

[wakeboard]

It's not about whether the degree is needed or not. It's all about competition. If everyone you are competing against for a job has a four year college degree, then you better have a college degree if you don't want to be skipped. A college degree doesn't show how smart or dumb you are - it shows persistence and perserverance that you started something and completed it showing responsibility.

 

[bobbysamd]

Degree v. not, again

Most go to college, instruct for 1000 hours, get hired by a regional, work there 5 years, make Capt. Then if hiring is going on get picked up by UPS or Fedex, the only ones who need college degrees. Since the majority of pilots follow this career track, it is the career track that everyone must follow to have the highest percentage of success. Is that what you are saying?

I'll come to the point, again. Whatever it takes to compete. If it means putting off flying to bite the bullet and go to college, then so be it. You continue to avoid the point about needing credentials to get jobs that lead to "TJ PIC" time. Do you think that these jobs are doled out to just anyone?

Goose Egg's and Wakefield's posts following yours, above, set forth the point well. I agree that anything that can hone your mind and thought processes, such as college, can only make you a better pilot, that it is the competition that sets the bar on qualifications, and, whether or not you want to go to college to be competitive, the need trumps the want every time.

I covered these very same points in last month's debate on the issue, which I incorporate by reference as if fully set forth herein. For that matter, I also incorporate this debate as if fully set forth herein.

 

[pilotyip]

Bobby, college only way to hone mind?

"I agree that anything that can hone your mind and thought processes, such as college, can only make you a better pilot.."

Ok so the WWII and Vietnam pilots were not as good as pilots as those who go to college today, is that what you are saying?

 

[Vik]

Another option is just doing flight training at a really good FBO (e.g. Sunrise Aviation at SNA) and going to the nearest comm. college and getting credits, and by that time, they'll have all their ratings and can xfer to a 4yr and start instructing.

Don't just limit them to comm. colleges w/ an aviation program.

 

[bobbysamd]

"I agree that anything that can hone your mind and thought processes, such as college, can only make you a better pilot.."

Ok so the WWII and Vietnam pilots were not as good as pilots as those who go to college today, is that what you are saying?

No, and you know that is not what I am saying. College is one example of something that can hone your mind and thought processes.

And weren't most of the Vietnam pilots officers, who, by definition, would have attended college?

WWII pilots are not a valid comparison because, college was not a discriminator in airline hiring in those days. I know a former United pilot who was a WWII military pilot. He said being hired at United back then was simply a matter of changing uniforms. By the way, he did attend college.

 

[j41driver]

Community College of Beaver County www.ccbc.edu. It's located NW of PIT and has a pretty good professional pilot program as well as a very good ATC program.

 

[KPTPK]

UND has satellite campuses in Spokane, WA, Crookston, MN, Honolulu, and Williston, ND. They are through community colleges but you would have to come to Grand Forks to do your CFI/CFII. Otherwise, you can do everything at the satellite. I went to UND right after High School and I started instructing when I was 21. As soon as you have your CFI, you are eligible to be hired with UND and can work part-time.

UND is relatively inexpensive, has a good reputation, and you get some benefits (reduced times), with a few airlines. Instructors get insurance here too!

UND isn't all that. I graduated from there in 2003. The student mentality there is.."I went to UND and I should get hired with the majors as soon as I'm through here." The could have a better networking structure there as Purdue or Riddle... just to name a few.Both the students and the instructors think that their $*#t. doesn't smell. As for getting hired as a flight instructor at UND. There are usually about 150-200 CFI applicants for 15-25 positions with the school. As with every job, its mostly who you know and whos @ss you kissed while going there. And they do have to meet a certain quota for hiring.(M,F,B,W,A). The best individuals usually don't get hired. I may seem a liitle sour about UND but this is the honest truth.

 

[Goose Egg]

If I knew then what I know now, and had it to do all over again, I'd do this program, and then probably head straight to grad school in some related scientific or technical field while instructing on the side. An advanced degree never killed anyone.

http://www.engineering.usu.edu/ete/academics/undergraduate/at/pp.php

As it turned out this 4-year program worked pretty well for me--since I was a resident, expenses were ultra-cheap. (I'm getting around to the grad school part.)

http://www.uvsc.edu/avsc/

But I wouldn't recommend their online program (or any online program, really.) The web courses are well put-together, but you miss so much being outside of a classroom environment. Bite the bullet and go to class.

Hope this helps,
Goose

 

[Tripower455]

Community College of Beaver County www.ccbc.edu. It's located NW of PIT and has a pretty good professional pilot program as well as a very good ATC program.

Ditto. Great School, Great Program (at least it was 20 years ago when I was there.)

FWIW, I believe that a 4 year degree will make you more competitive in the job market.

That said, the benefit of a community college for flying is that you can get all of your ratings done, in many cases a lot cheaper than the big schools, in 2 years. You can then go on and finish the batchelors online or at another school. It does give you a certain amount of flexibility as in my case. By the time I would have graduated a 4 year school, I was flying for a commuter.

 

[bobbysamd]

Going to class v. not

But I wouldn't recommend their online program (or any online program, really.) The web courses are well put-together, but you miss so much being outside of a classroom environment. Bite the bullet and go to class.

(emphasis added)

I couldn't have said it better. I am living proof.

I studied for most of my writtens at home, i.e. reading books but primarily memorizing the ASA books. I went to class for my instrument, CFI-I, ATP and FEX writtens. I learned so much more preparing for class, taking notes and interacting with the instructor than I did reading books. FOI declarations about how one learns with all senses are so true; pay attention to them.

Moreover, online programs are just a modern version of old-fashioned correspondence courses. Those who have taken correspondence courses will relate to what a pain they are to complete after working all day, tending to your life, etc. Actual class forces you to be disciplined and prepare, with the result being that you finish faster, and learn more and better.

 

[qmaster3]

Why go to school for a aviation related degree? I know it's been debated before. Does it give you an advantage over someone with another degree that has all the ratings? As for CFI's I would rather learn from a retired Airline/Military pilot at my local FBO than someone with 300/hrs who just graduated themselves. I took a few classes at Riddle, but then switched majors on the notion that putting all the eggs in one basket wasn't wise. Not saying 4/yr aviation degree isn't worth anything. Come furlough day I would rather be the pilot with a 2/yr IT, BA mechanical engineering, or AAS in auto mechanics

 

[Goose Egg]

Why go to school for a aviation related degree? I know it's been debated before. Does it give you an advantage over someone with another degree that has all the ratings?

I'd say no, not really. However, finishing the aviation degree was one of the most productive and fulfilling things that I have done to date, and I thoroughly enjoyed it, any issues of marketability notwithstanding. My interests were in aviation, therefore, I took classes in aviation and had the time of my life. Personally, I could not summon the energy to complete a degree in a subject area that I was not interested in, and believe me, I tried. Right now, I'm a dirt-poor CFI, but I love every minute of what I do. Doesn't that count for something?

Come furlough day I would rather be the pilot with a 2/yr IT, BA mechanical engineering, or AAS in auto mechanics.

Come furlough time, who's to say that the only good flying job out there is at an airline? And understand, my usage of "good" is not necessarily synonymous with "high paying." There are many other factors.

Heck, we should put the term "high paying" in context while we're at it. A lot of pilots out there would gripe and moan about the "abysmal" salary of $75K. But do you how many people in the real world would kill to have a salary that high?

-Goose

 

[qmaster3]

Goose,

Thanks for the insight. Other subject areas would seem dry for a lot of people, and I know everyone has reasons for the degree they choose. Any degree is better than none. I am with you on the "good jobs". A little less pay, job security, etc for a little less $$ is fine by me. Being the dirt poor CFI will pay off hopefully sooner than later!

Cheers,