Good Community College Pilot Programs?

[saviboy]

Hi, check out Broward community college.Delta Connection academy is the training provider. The flight costs are a little cheaper than at the main base in Orlando. there is a lot to say about DCA, though. So make sure you do a search.
bye

 

[bobbysamd]

How about this for a wild idea?

I wrote this at the end of a post above and am repeating it so it will stand alone.

The debate never stops on aviation degree v. non-aviation degrees. So, how about this idea?

Go to a two-year school, earn an A.S. in Aviation and your ratings. Then, transfer to a four-year school and earn a Bachelor's in something else. That way, all bases will be covered and everyone will be happy.

No guarantees, of course, on how many aviation credits will transfer. Flight instructing part-time can earn a few bucks, hours and can generate contacts.

I still like a four-year aviation degree and would still submit that a non-aviation degree without actual experience in the field diminishes its value as a fallback plan. However, just consider what I am suggesting.

 

[Goose Egg]

Go to a two-year school, earn an A.S. in Aviation and your ratings. Then, transfer to a four-year school and earn a Bachelor's in something else. That way, all bases will be covered and everyone will be happy.

Well, everyone except Yip anyway.

-Goose

 

[pilotyip]

I won't be unhappy

I really do not care if a pilot does a four-year degree or not, it is an individual choice. It is not for everyone and it has nothing to do with flying an airplane. My point is if you like to fly airplanes, fly airplanes. You will be successful. Without a college degree $100K in 10-12 years out of high school is doable. I see it happen too often. The individual defines success and not what the majority thinks is politically correct definition of success. Spend 2 years at a CC, get your certs and start flying. This is a viable career option, but it still falls in the non- 4-yr degree program.

 

[350DRIVER]

I have and will always suggest the San Juan College /Mesa Airlines Pilot Development Program (MAPD) to those who ask me for career advice and input. No other community college or program is tailored to take a zero hour pilot and place them in the right seat of a CRJ, ERJ, or Dash8 in 19 short months and at relatively low time (270-300 hours). The college/program is pretty hard to beat in my opinion, you are trained the airline way from day 1. Those who are so overly concerned about continuing on afterwards can finish up the 4 year degree through a correspondence course that can be done online while you are currently flying.

Mesa is not a career airline but it is a good way to get your foot in the door to allow you the opportunity to move on to bigger and better things.

One must ask a few questions when looking at a college and program that may or may not be tied in with an airline.>

1) Placement rates?

2) Success rates among current and former students?.

3) Where are they now?.

4) Do the positives outweigh the negatives?.

5) Do any other similar programs compare to this one?.

good luck,

3 5 0

 

[bobbysamd]

I really do not care if a pilot does a four-year degree or not, it is an individual choice. It is not for everyone and it has nothing to do with flying an airplane.

Not true. Here again, Yip, anything that can hone thought processes, such as studying, learning, thinking and analyzing, has everything to do with being a better pilot. Good study skills have everything to do with getting through company ground school. Getting through college fosters development of good study skills.

My point is if you like to fly airplanes, fly airplanes. You will be successful. Without a college degree $100K in 10-12 years out of high school is doable. I see it happen too often.

The "too often" is baloney. Your claim of $100K success with no need for college sounds like flight school and afternoon TV career school hype. It is misleading, and not realistic without credentials to support it.

Define "often." Your only example has been the 20-year-old you hired who lucked into a Metro job beforehand. Others get these jobs, but not at 20-years-old and only after building sizeable credentials.

Spend 2 years at a CC, get your certs and start flying. This is a viable career option, but it still falls in the non- 4-yr degree program.

It may not fall into the four-year-degree program, but it is still not high school only, and the four-year-degree still will be needed, eventually.

 

[Superpilot92]

Try Texas State Technical College! I went there and got all my ratings there in 2 years and recieved a Associates degree. upon recieving my cfi i was hired and began working there as a CFI. Private through CFI in 2 years then recieved my CFII and MEI Part 61 after i started working. YOu get a discount on aircraft 20% and free sim and one one free hour of Twin time a month which always works out to 2 free hours when you go up with another CFI.

www.theflightcollege.com

 

[pilotyip]

Bobby Oh! yea of little faith

The "too often" is baloney. Your claim of $100K success with no need for college sounds like flight school and afternoon TV career school hype. It is misleading, and not realistic without credentials to support it.

According to Webster’s "Often" means many, what defines many? Is three at a small company many?
I will PM you with the details.

 

[labbats]

Try Iowa Central Community College in Webster City, Iowa. Or Northern Iowa Area Community College in NW Iowa and Indian Hills in SE Iowa.

Lots of students go to University of Nebraska at Omaha for a 4 year aviation degree too. If you are related to anyone in the military, you can fly and get credits through the Aero Club at Offutt Air Force Base just south of Omaha. It's incredibly cheap there. $155/hr for a BE-55 Baron wet.

 

[bobbysamd]

Arguing exception

According to Webster’s "Often" means many, what defines many? Is three at a small company many?

Define "small." But, three in the broader scope of thousands of pilots, employed and unemployed, qualified and unqualified, college educated or not, is not many at all. These people are the exception, not the rule.

There are always exceptions. Rugged individualists who defy the rules. However, when considering the intense competition for pilot jobs, the odds are better if one is the rule instead of the exception. Therefore, smart, practical, pragmatic and realistic people go with the percentages.

 

[Goose Egg]

The individual defines success and not what the majority thinks is politically correct definition of success.

My definition of success has nothing to do with political correctness, and everything to do with actually understanding why I do what I do in flying as well as life. Merely going through the monkey motions and performing skills at the braying moron rote level is failure defined, even if it comes with a $100k paycheck.

Was college neccessary for this to occur? You bet your sweet bippy.

-Goose

 

[pilotyip]

Tell me more goose

Are you telling me you are smarter, a better pilot, a person more capable of making critical decisions than my friend and co-worker who is a DC-9 Captain with 4 years of TJ PIC, who possess and A&P certificate but does not have a college degree? Alternatively, you are better that an Army HS to Flight school graduate with service in Gulf I, who not possess a college degree? It that what you are saying? College alone does not define any of the characteristics you attach to a four year degree.

 

[Clyde]

To continue the discussion of the merits of the college degree. It has been posted that I am anti-college degree. Nothing cold is further from the truth. The country needs all the college educated citizens it can have, its raises the level of knowledge to keep this as the greatest country in the world. Real degrees in business, engineering, the sciences, math, and medicine provide a graduate with marketable skills. If you are going to go to college, get a real degree from a real university. Do not spend four years getting a degree in Women’s Studies. However this is not an engineering forum, this is an aviation forum. The college degree has nothing to do with flying an airplane. Many have posted they agree it has nothing to do with the mastering on an airplane. I have admitted that the possession of a degree may open doors at a few select places of employment in the airline industry. If a potential pilot feels they will only be pleased in life if they get an interview with UPS, then that prospective pilot should go to college, however disappointment may follow. Air Inc advertises that 166 airlines and assorted aviation companies are recruiting right now, I only see five that make the degree a showstopper. My assertion that runs contrary to the "College is a must” crowd, is that to be competitive for the other 161 places the degree is not necessary. If a prospective pilots just loves flying airplanes, and would be happy making $70-$100K per year with no debt from college loans, a college degree is not necessary. Many prospective pilots may be steered into attending college when they are not college material, not because of a lack basic intelligence, but because it is not important to them. These pilots want to get on with their lives flying airplanes. I have seen too many non-degreed pilots reach a good career position with out a degree. But then my focus is on job satisfaction and not upon pay, respect, and prestige. It is about the joy of flying an airplane. Others out there may feel the same motivation I do.

"If a prospective pilots just loves flying airplanes, and would be happy making $70-$100K per year with no debt from college loans, a college degree is not necessary."

Well, let's add to this a little bit.
First, the student would more than likely not have any student loan debt from college, but highly unlikely that this person would not owe any money for acquiring certificates and ratings. Unless they have around $15K sitting around with nothing else to spend it on, they are going to owe money when they finish.

Second, these prospective pilots are not going to walk into $70-$100K flying jobs. More likely, they are going to spend at least a few years working for minimum wage wages while they gain experience. Looks like the credit card debt may start creeping up on them at 15%-20% interest rates.

Third, while the prospects of making $70K-$100K are there, one must look at a few other things. Compared to making $250/week as a CFI, even $40K looks good. But, are we talking about $70-$100K in today's dollars when we project 10 years into the future? Chances are that a lot of these companies that pay $70-$100K today, will still pay $70-$100K annually 10-15 years down the road. That may still be good money, or it may not be as much as it is today.

Fourth, what kinds of companies will be paying these salaries and what are the working conditions like. I'm sure some corporate outfits will pay this much, but how about stability. Can you count on retiring from them? Can you count on starting over a few times before you eventually retire? How about quality of life? Is a job that pays $70-$100K going to require you to be on call 24/7 and gone away from home 2/3 of the year?

Now, I see YIP's point about the college degree, and this is not any type of slam to his argument. In fact, I know a couple of people here that do not have a college degree. However, here is my point:

First, like YIP says, get into flying because you enjoy flying airplanes, that way you won't be dissappointed.

Second, regarding a degree, I recommend getting one, but not one in aviation. Get a degree, and more specifically, one which will equip you with a very marketable trade and allow you to work while you are flying or between flying jobs. This could help put a few extra condiments on the dinner table during those slow months as a CFI when nobody else seems to be hiring as well as when you are between flying jobs.

Finally, don't let debt from student loans scare you. I do advise paying cash for as much school as you can, but if you HAVE to borrow, go ahead. Just make sure that you are able to pay it off rather quickly when you graduate. I had a couple of school loans when I graduated, but they have since been paid off. I lucked out, my degree is in aviation, but I got on with a very good carrier 4 years out of college too. Looking back, it was a gamble.

When YIP referenced school debt, it made me think of some of the aviation-universities where one can easily owe over $100K upon graduation. I think those schools are a waste of money, because you don't need an aviation-specific degree to even fly for the carriers which require a degree. You can major in something more marketable for a lot less.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Cochise College in AZ. Douglas campus has its own airport on campus, They also have a school in Tucson now. 2 year degree offered, most do their 4 year while instructing. (ER online etc..)

Senior instructors and CP's are career instructors so you tend to get a more quality and stable instruction experience from what I saw. The CP has been there since 81 or something like that and the Assistant CP for about 15 years or so. they also have an A&P program so unless things have changed in the last decade or so the aircraft are always in near perfect condition. Back then if you saw a spot of oil down in the cowling they wanted to know about it so they could give it a once over for a possible oil leak. Aircraft types were Warriors, 182 RG's, C-170 for tailwheel and B55 Baron for multi. I don't know if they have added any different types due to the Tucson addition or not.

I went to finish up my ratings there Comm thru CFII, and after 3 airlines and a flurry of pt 135 and corporate jobs I have yet to come across anything that I felt I should have learned that I didn't. You will not get any turbine flight experience, but you will get high altitude aerodynamics, and swept wing aerodynamics. Which is more than I can say for the majority of the pilots that I have flown with that came from the so called "Turbine programs" They are small enough that the competition between you and your classmates keeps you sharp. You do not want to be the only bonehead in your class that falls behind or is weak on a subject.

They are not a big school but I know of Cochise College folks at nearly every Major and Regional in the country. If you like the big city then Douglas is not for you, If you want to learn as much as possible in a couple of years and fly your butt off then have a look. They have some pretty good connections with AWA also. Lots of alumni on the senority list over there.

Keep in mind that my info is 10+ years old, but I still drop in there from time to time when I am out west to B.S. with the CP's and it appears that they still have the same quality as before.

 

[Goose Egg]

Are you telling me you are smarter, a better pilot, a personal more capable of making critical decisions than my friend and co-worker who is a DC-9 Captain with 4 jets of TJ PIC, who possess and A&P certificate but does not have a college degree? Alternatively, you are better that an Army HS to Flight school graduate with service in Gulf I, who not possess a college degree? It that what you are saying?

No, and I do hope that you realize the difference. I am saying that I am smarter, better, and more capable of making critical decisions than I would have been if I had not been to college. Nice try though.

-Goose