Good Community College Pilot Programs?

[Goose Egg]

The individual defines success and not what the majority thinks is politically correct definition of success.

My definition of success has nothing to do with political correctness, and everything to do with actually understanding why I do what I do in flying as well as life. Merely going through the monkey motions and performing skills at the braying moron rote level is failure defined, even if it comes with a $100k paycheck.

Was college neccessary for this to occur? You bet your sweet bippy.

-Goose

 

[pilotyip]

Tell me more goose

Are you telling me you are smarter, a better pilot, a person more capable of making critical decisions than my friend and co-worker who is a DC-9 Captain with 4 years of TJ PIC, who possess and A&P certificate but does not have a college degree? Alternatively, you are better that an Army HS to Flight school graduate with service in Gulf I, who not possess a college degree? It that what you are saying? College alone does not define any of the characteristics you attach to a four year degree.

 

[Clyde]

To continue the discussion of the merits of the college degree. It has been posted that I am anti-college degree. Nothing cold is further from the truth. The country needs all the college educated citizens it can have, its raises the level of knowledge to keep this as the greatest country in the world. Real degrees in business, engineering, the sciences, math, and medicine provide a graduate with marketable skills. If you are going to go to college, get a real degree from a real university. Do not spend four years getting a degree in Women’s Studies. However this is not an engineering forum, this is an aviation forum. The college degree has nothing to do with flying an airplane. Many have posted they agree it has nothing to do with the mastering on an airplane. I have admitted that the possession of a degree may open doors at a few select places of employment in the airline industry. If a potential pilot feels they will only be pleased in life if they get an interview with UPS, then that prospective pilot should go to college, however disappointment may follow. Air Inc advertises that 166 airlines and assorted aviation companies are recruiting right now, I only see five that make the degree a showstopper. My assertion that runs contrary to the "College is a must” crowd, is that to be competitive for the other 161 places the degree is not necessary. If a prospective pilots just loves flying airplanes, and would be happy making $70-$100K per year with no debt from college loans, a college degree is not necessary. Many prospective pilots may be steered into attending college when they are not college material, not because of a lack basic intelligence, but because it is not important to them. These pilots want to get on with their lives flying airplanes. I have seen too many non-degreed pilots reach a good career position with out a degree. But then my focus is on job satisfaction and not upon pay, respect, and prestige. It is about the joy of flying an airplane. Others out there may feel the same motivation I do.

"If a prospective pilots just loves flying airplanes, and would be happy making $70-$100K per year with no debt from college loans, a college degree is not necessary."

Well, let's add to this a little bit.
First, the student would more than likely not have any student loan debt from college, but highly unlikely that this person would not owe any money for acquiring certificates and ratings. Unless they have around $15K sitting around with nothing else to spend it on, they are going to owe money when they finish.

Second, these prospective pilots are not going to walk into $70-$100K flying jobs. More likely, they are going to spend at least a few years working for minimum wage wages while they gain experience. Looks like the credit card debt may start creeping up on them at 15%-20% interest rates.

Third, while the prospects of making $70K-$100K are there, one must look at a few other things. Compared to making $250/week as a CFI, even $40K looks good. But, are we talking about $70-$100K in today's dollars when we project 10 years into the future? Chances are that a lot of these companies that pay $70-$100K today, will still pay $70-$100K annually 10-15 years down the road. That may still be good money, or it may not be as much as it is today.

Fourth, what kinds of companies will be paying these salaries and what are the working conditions like. I'm sure some corporate outfits will pay this much, but how about stability. Can you count on retiring from them? Can you count on starting over a few times before you eventually retire? How about quality of life? Is a job that pays $70-$100K going to require you to be on call 24/7 and gone away from home 2/3 of the year?

Now, I see YIP's point about the college degree, and this is not any type of slam to his argument. In fact, I know a couple of people here that do not have a college degree. However, here is my point:

First, like YIP says, get into flying because you enjoy flying airplanes, that way you won't be dissappointed.

Second, regarding a degree, I recommend getting one, but not one in aviation. Get a degree, and more specifically, one which will equip you with a very marketable trade and allow you to work while you are flying or between flying jobs. This could help put a few extra condiments on the dinner table during those slow months as a CFI when nobody else seems to be hiring as well as when you are between flying jobs.

Finally, don't let debt from student loans scare you. I do advise paying cash for as much school as you can, but if you HAVE to borrow, go ahead. Just make sure that you are able to pay it off rather quickly when you graduate. I had a couple of school loans when I graduated, but they have since been paid off. I lucked out, my degree is in aviation, but I got on with a very good carrier 4 years out of college too. Looking back, it was a gamble.

When YIP referenced school debt, it made me think of some of the aviation-universities where one can easily owe over $100K upon graduation. I think those schools are a waste of money, because you don't need an aviation-specific degree to even fly for the carriers which require a degree. You can major in something more marketable for a lot less.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Cochise College in AZ. Douglas campus has its own airport on campus, They also have a school in Tucson now. 2 year degree offered, most do their 4 year while instructing. (ER online etc..)

Senior instructors and CP's are career instructors so you tend to get a more quality and stable instruction experience from what I saw. The CP has been there since 81 or something like that and the Assistant CP for about 15 years or so. they also have an A&P program so unless things have changed in the last decade or so the aircraft are always in near perfect condition. Back then if you saw a spot of oil down in the cowling they wanted to know about it so they could give it a once over for a possible oil leak. Aircraft types were Warriors, 182 RG's, C-170 for tailwheel and B55 Baron for multi. I don't know if they have added any different types due to the Tucson addition or not.

I went to finish up my ratings there Comm thru CFII, and after 3 airlines and a flurry of pt 135 and corporate jobs I have yet to come across anything that I felt I should have learned that I didn't. You will not get any turbine flight experience, but you will get high altitude aerodynamics, and swept wing aerodynamics. Which is more than I can say for the majority of the pilots that I have flown with that came from the so called "Turbine programs" They are small enough that the competition between you and your classmates keeps you sharp. You do not want to be the only bonehead in your class that falls behind or is weak on a subject.

They are not a big school but I know of Cochise College folks at nearly every Major and Regional in the country. If you like the big city then Douglas is not for you, If you want to learn as much as possible in a couple of years and fly your butt off then have a look. They have some pretty good connections with AWA also. Lots of alumni on the senority list over there.

Keep in mind that my info is 10+ years old, but I still drop in there from time to time when I am out west to B.S. with the CP's and it appears that they still have the same quality as before.

 

[Goose Egg]

Are you telling me you are smarter, a better pilot, a personal more capable of making critical decisions than my friend and co-worker who is a DC-9 Captain with 4 jets of TJ PIC, who possess and A&P certificate but does not have a college degree? Alternatively, you are better that an Army HS to Flight school graduate with service in Gulf I, who not possess a college degree? It that what you are saying?

No, and I do hope that you realize the difference. I am saying that I am smarter, better, and more capable of making critical decisions than I would have been if I had not been to college. Nice try though.

-Goose

 

[bobbysamd]

<Sigh>. again

No, and I do hope that you realize the difference. I am saying that I am smarter, better, and more capable of making critical decisions than I would have been if I had not been to college. Nice try though.

Moved AND seconded.

 

[EngineOut]

I mentor several student pilots in my hometown and one asked me about reputable community college aviation programs? Obviously for four year aviation colleges Embry Riddle, UND, and Purdue are top notch as well as several more.

The real advantage I see to going to a community college flight program is that you usually graduate after two years with all of your ratings (CFI tickets too!) rather than four years. You could begin instructing right at 20-21 years old in that case. Another advantage if you could transfer those credits to a 4 year college and major in something other than aeronautical science in the end to have a backup.

My question therefore is: Does anyone know of the top rated community college aviation programs in the US?

I don't know of its "rating," but I went to Mountain View College in Dallas, TX. Finished the AAS Aviation Technology Aircraft Dispatch, AAS Aviation Technology Professional Pilot, and AS Business Administration in 2 1/2 years. Transfered the Biz stuff to UT Arlington and will be graduating this May with a BBA in Management.

MVC is a good program. They contract all the flight training to Howell's Aircraft in Grand Prairie (141/61). The college subsidizes the hourly rate depending on the flight course in which you are enrolled. This amounts to a $6-8/hr discount for a flight course that requires 48 hours of flight (2 credit hours, $90). They have 3 Frascas on campus, too. Students aren't charged for the use, either (at least when I went there). Finished the certificates (thru CFII) a year after I finished the coursework while attending UTA.

 

[msuspartans24]

Northwestern Michigan College in Traverse City, Michigan has a great 2 year program. You can also stay and get your 4 year from Ferris State at the university center. It's very affordable, and T.C. is a great city to live in.

 

[Ravengirl]

MTSAC, Mount San Antonio College, in Walnut, California. SoCal.

www.mtsac.edu

Hell yeah. I graduated a year ago from good old Mt. SAC

Stephanie

 

[350DRIVER]

No, and I do hope that you realize the difference. I am saying that I am smarter, better, and more capable of making critical decisions than I would have been if I had not been to college. Nice try though.

-Goose

Pretty interesting statement to say the least..... I have never flown with any one pilot who would ever state they are a "better" and a safer pilot due to that piece of paper called a degree. To even think a long those lines would be on the verge of insanity. Those who have a degree are more capable of "making critical decisions" versus those who do not have the degree?!?!. I have heard some funny things on this board but that has got to be up near the top. That college degree does not make one any safer, better, or a more well rounded pilot, in reality it simply allows you to fill in the box on the application, nothing more and nothing less.

I have flown with many pilots who haven't attended a single college class and they were just as sharp as those with the degree. I can't even believe I am taking the time to respond to this, it is insane.

Next thing I will hear is that those without the degree are not required to pass the same competency checks as those who have one.

Degree or no degree you are still required to show a certain level of competence and ability regardless of whether or not you have that piece of paper.

Many have been hired without the degree and many more will be, the trend won't be coming to an end anytime soon.

If you are able and have the means to be able to obtain the degree then wonderful and more power to you but if you are unable then don't think for one second that you will not get hired within this industry, that would be nonsense to buy into that.

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