Gojet grows...even though TSHoldings Broke!

TurnandPull

Member
Joined
Apr 6, 2003
Posts
7
Total Time
100000
Curious that one week after citing serious financial problems at TSA to encourage us to extend our already 9 year old contract that it's revealed that Trans States Holdings can afford to take delivery of 6 brand new CRJ700s as well as hold options on 10 more.

http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/news/Stock News/2195367/

These orders were apparently placed almost a year ago in a very different financial climate; but are we truly expected to believe that Trans States Airlines is on the verge of going broke but that Trans States HOLDINGS has $207 Million dollars laying around to cut a deal like this!?!

Is this Holdings way of announcing to us that we have no influence over their acquisition of more aircraft at Gojet? If so though, how will they continue to push a contract extension with no scope or job-protection at us under the threat of bankruptcy and catastrophe? Or was it not even their intention to have this information revealed?

I believe this signals the beginning of the endgame of this entire situation. TSH has been invited to speak with a small group of level-headed and highly respected pilots on behalf of TSA-ALPA with the intention of proposing a zero-cost way of solving this whole mess: Become a SINGLE CARRIER in the eyes of the NMB. As of now they still have not responded to our invitation to clear this whole mess up and put Humpty Dumpty back together again.

We are willing to pay a price to piece this company back together again and move forward in the same way as Chataugua/Shuttle/Republic or Colgan/Pinnacle. Only as one united labour group can TSH regain the respect of the industry and re-aquire the financing necessary to move forward in a rapidly evolving marketplace. Continuing to posture and bicker over pennies will only put this Single Carrier even further behind our stronger competitors. With a mutually sought single carrier determination we can put up fences, merge the lists in the fairest way possible under ALPA merger policies, and put behind us the mutually destructive relationship we've (both sides) built over the last decade.
 

Salukipilot4590

IS WE ON TV?
Joined
Jan 15, 2006
Posts
1,512
Total Time
250.1
Yeah that sounds about like something TSH would do...
 

Skippy

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 14, 2002
Posts
561
Total Time
N/a
if TSA got single carrier status that would mean the pilot group ultimately won, right albeit after a certain degree of sacrifice? TSA mgmnt prob not willing to do that--- will their pride continually increase their ongoing collateral damage- yep.

SKIPPY
 

nwa_contrails

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 27, 2005
Posts
267
Total Time
+
I think this is nothing more than a management scare tactic towards our pilot group. This order was placed almost a year ago, to an "unidentified" party. Now, TSH chooses to reveal to the public that it was them? C'mon, the timing of this stinks, it's so blatantly obvious. The company is trying to scare the TSA pilots into submission of their "bridge" agreement by making us think they have their financing lined up again. They don't. GoJet will NOT grow until TSA pilots have some sort of stability/contract.
 
Joined
May 10, 2006
Posts
53
Total Time
100
Do you seriously think the Gojet pilots would go for the merging of our pilot groups? After all the hatred, trust me- not a chance. Good luck though guys, hope it all works out for you.
 

nwa_contrails

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 27, 2005
Posts
267
Total Time
+
Well, it's probably going to come down to merge the lists (with a stapler for GJ i hope) or shut the place down, so...trust me- it's possible.
 

JustaNumber

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 10, 2005
Posts
922
Total Time
5000
... are we truly expected to believe that Trans States Airlines is on the verge of going broke but that Trans States HOLDINGS has $207 Million dollars laying around to cut a deal like this!?!
Anybody remember MAIR? These holding company managers should be tarred and feathered.


We are willing to pay a price to piece this company back together again and move forward in the same way as Chataugua/Shuttle/Republic or Colgan/Pinnacle.
Unfortunately, sounds like what Mesa/Freedom were willing to do, to the detriment of the entire industry. Be careful what price you are willing to pay. Agreeing to any contract that is less than at least industry average will result in changing the "Mesa sucks" campaign to "TSA sucks" in a hurry.
 

TurnandPull

Member
Joined
Apr 6, 2003
Posts
7
Total Time
100000
Because there seems to be quite a few naysayers that believe that the Gojet pilot group would have something to say about an NMB "Single Carrier" determination; let me explain the process to you.

1. Trans States Holdings and TSA/ALPA jointly would request the National Mediation Board determine that the Holding Co. was being operated as a single carrier.

2. The NMB would immediatly comply with this joint request because they'd love to get our butts off their docket and stop wasting their time. Also TSA will be the next case in their books to go to self-help and they would like to avoid this if at all possible.

3. At that time the NMB would count the number of pilots on both lists (including furloughees) and decide whether a vote will be required to determine who the joint collective bargaining agent will be. If one group outnumbers the other by a certain margine than no vote would be required and the NMB would impose the majority agent on the minority group.

4. In our case ALPA would be declared the de facto collective bargaining agent of the joint pilot group and ALPAs merger policies would begin. This could go well... Delta/Northwest, Pinnacle/Colgan or it could go very bad... USair/America West. Worst case scenario it goes to binding arbitration after 3 or 4 months and we all live with the results.

5. The company and ALPA would jointly agree to establish equipment fences and transfer protocols that would minimize the training cost impact on the company. Furloughed TSA pilots would be poured into the new metal coming to Gojet and all current Gojet pilots would be safe in their seats regardless of seniority until the fences come down.

And that's it folks. Anyone who's under the impression that we need to negotiate with or ask permission to go ahead with this from the Gojet pilots just has no fraking idea how the Railway Labour Act works. And if you think that TSHoldings will shoot this down to protect your dumb asses well you're even more naive than I thought. The Holding company is going to do what's in it's best financial interests... and right now that is sucking it up and rebuilding this dump back into a functioning 2 airlines with a merged seniority list. Folks like David are going to have to be content with the small win we're offering them rather than the big win of putting us all on the street.
 

laserman2431

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 23, 2007
Posts
309
Total Time
4000
Because there seems to be quite a few naysayers that believe that the Gojet pilot group would have something to say about an NMB "Single Carrier" determination; let me explain the process to you.

1. Trans States Holdings and TSA/ALPA jointly would request the National Mediation Board determine that the Holding Co. was being operated as a single carrier.

2. The NMB would immediatly comply with this joint request because they'd love to get our butts off their docket and stop wasting their time. Also TSA will be the next case in their books to go to self-help and they would like to avoid this if at all possible.

3. At that time the NMB would count the number of pilots on both lists (including furloughees) and decide whether a vote will be required to determine who the joint collective bargaining agent will be. If one group outnumbers the other by a certain margine than no vote would be required and the NMB would impose the majority agent on the minority group.

4. In our case ALPA would be declared the de facto collective bargaining agent of the joint pilot group and ALPAs merger policies would begin. This could go well... Delta/Northwest, Pinnacle/Colgan or it could go very bad... USair/America West. Worst case scenario it goes to binding arbitration after 3 or 4 months and we all live with the results.

5. The company and ALPA would jointly agree to establish equipment fences and transfer protocols that would minimize the training cost impact on the company. Furloughed TSA pilots would be poured into the new metal coming to Gojet and all current Gojet pilots would be safe in their seats regardless of seniority until the fences come down.

And that's it folks. Anyone who's under the impression that we need to negotiate with or ask permission to go ahead with this from the Gojet pilots just has no fraking idea how the Railway Labour Act works. And if you think that TSHoldings will shoot this down to protect your dumb asses well you're even more naive than I thought. The Holding company is going to do what's in it's best financial interests... and right now that is sucking it up and rebuilding this dump back into a functioning 2 airlines with a merged seniority list. Folks like David are going to have to be content with the small win we're offering them rather than the big win of putting us all on the street.
This seems like a brilliant plan but I think it has already been tried. See 33 NMB No. 9 Case Nos. R-7069 and R-7070 (File No. CR-6885) December 21, 2005 at http://www.nmb.gov/representation/deter2006/33n009.pdf

CONCLUSION
The Board finds that TSA and GoJet are not operating as a single transportation system for representation purposes under the RLA for the craft or class of Pilots. Accordingly, ALPA’s application in File No. CR-6885 is converted to NMB Case No. R-7069 and dismissed.
 

laserman2431

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 23, 2007
Posts
309
Total Time
4000
2. The NMB would immediatly (sp) comply with this joint request because they'd love to get our butts off their docket and stop wasting their time.
That's not how the court operates.

Also TSA will be the next case in their books to go to self-help and they would like to avoid this if at all possible.
Their decisions are not made based on who might or might not seek self help options. It just doesn't work that way.
 

TurnandPull

Member
Joined
Apr 6, 2003
Posts
7
Total Time
100000
Either you don't understand, or you don't want to, that this differs from the previous Single Carrier petition in that Trans States Holdings is being asked to JOINTLY request this determination from the NMB. TSHoldings would not be objecting to the single carrier status as they did earlier, but would instead, without admitting wrong doing, state that they are NOW operating labour relations at the two carriers in such a way as to conform with the NMBs criteria of single carrier status. Thus the NMB would more than likely grant this request as there would be no dissenting party. The Teamsters would have to decide at that time whether to object; and why would they seeing as how their airlines growth is directly in jeapordy due to the carriers inability to secure finances for additional aircraft. Remember the recent revelation of additional aircraft orders is from last March... if they had the dough; you'd have the planes.

A merger of the lists in in the best interests of both pilot groups and the company. With a fair and equitable seniority integration Gojet frees itself of their pariah status and is able to secure the financing necessary to grow; and the TSA pilots ensure their continued employment and long term success. Also with so many TSA pilots on furlough Gojet would be able to effortlessly staff any new equipment without any problems. No more denied jumpseating... no more interference in the aquisition of leasing cash... just one big happy, though dysfunctional, family.

United we will go forward as a successful company with 2 certificates; divided we will drag the whole operation down in flames. Have no doubt; if TSA pilots lose this fight, we'll take both companies down with us. Trans States pilots are fighting for our very livelyhoods... don't think for a minute we'll care about yours on our way down. Gojet also cannot support the fat bloated network of management personnel currently at TSH... these folks want to keep their jobs as well; do you think other airlines will hire the very executives that brought down TSA?

Oh and Laserman... keep me straight on all my spelling mistakes here; I'm counting on you. And the NMBs job here is to safeguard the interstate commerce system within the guidelines of the RLA. Everything we're proposing is in those best interests, so what makes you think we'll find a roadblock in the NMB?
 

laserman2431

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 23, 2007
Posts
309
Total Time
4000
Either you don't understand, or you don't want to, that this differs from the previous Single Carrier petition in that Trans States Holdings is being asked to JOINTLY request this determination from the NMB. TSHoldings would not be objecting to the single carrier status as they did earlier, but would instead, without admitting wrong doing, state that they are NOW operating labour (sp) relations at the two carriers in such a way as to conform with the NMBs criteria of single carrier status. Thus the NMB would more than likely grant this request as there would be no dissenting party. The Teamsters would have to decide at that time whether to object; and why would they seeing as how their airlines growth is directly in jeapordy (sp) due to the carriers inability to secure finances for additional aircraft. Remember the recent revelation of additional aircraft orders is from last March... if they had the dough; you'd have the planes.

A merger of the lists in in the best interests of both pilot groups and the company. With a fair and equitable seniority integration Gojet frees itself of their pariah status and is able to secure the financing necessary to grow; and the TSA pilots ensure their continued employment and long term success. Also with so many TSA pilots on furlough Gojet would be able to effortlessly staff any new equipment without any problems. No more denied jumpseating... no more interference in the aquisition (sp) of leasing cash... just one big happy, though dysfunctional, family.

United we will go forward as a successful company with 2 certificates; divided we will drag the whole operation down in flames. Have no doubt; if TSA pilots lose this fight, we'll take both companies down with us. Trans States pilots are fighting for our very livelyhoods (sp)... don't think for a minute we'll care about yours on our way down. Gojet also cannot support the fat bloated network of management personnel currently at TSH... these folks want to keep their jobs as well; do you think other airlines will hire the very executives that brought down TSA?

Oh and Laserman... keep me straight on all my spelling mistakes here; I'm counting on you. And the NMBs job here is to safeguard the interstate commerce system within the guidelines of the RLA. Everything we're proposing is in those best interests, so what makes you think we'll find a roadblock in the NMB?
The NMB's integrated processes specifically are designed to promote three statutory goals:
  • The prompt and orderly resolution of disputes arising out of the negotiation of new or revised collective bargaining agreements;
  • The effectuation of employee rights of self-organization where a representation dispute exists; and
  • The prompt and orderly resolution of disputes over the interpretation or application of existing agreements.
From http://www.nmb.gov/publicinfo/mission.html

Spelling corrections as requested sir.
 

laserman2431

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 23, 2007
Posts
309
Total Time
4000
I don't see the NMB reversing their decision unless it can be proven that there has been a significant change from 2005 to now. Are you aware of a significant change?

If all three parties, TSH, ALPA, IBT, were to agree, there would be no reason to involve the NMB.
 

laserman2431

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 23, 2007
Posts
309
Total Time
4000
I'm just saying that your vision of what is going to happen seems to have some pretty big holes in it. That doesn't mean there is no hope. I just don't think the path you have described is the one that leads to where you want to go.
 

dispatchguy

Dad is my favorite title
Joined
Nov 30, 2001
Posts
1,569
Total Time
NIL
Burn this ********************hole down, and make sure that dot-not-feather is in the pyre...
 

laserman2431

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 23, 2007
Posts
309
Total Time
4000
Burn this ********************hole down, and make sure that dot-not-feather is in the pyre...
"I don't say we wouldn't get our hair mussed, but I do say no more than ten to twenty million killed, tops!...uh, depending on the breaks."


"
I'm afraid, sir, I must ask you for the key, and the recall code. Have you got them handy, sir?"

P.O.E.


 
Last edited:

lookin4better

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 11, 2005
Posts
6,970
Total Time
Glory
Regionals are just good time builders and stepping stone jobs... get the time, move on to better things and be happy.

just relAX and enjoy life.

:)

Cheers!
 

Salukipilot4590

IS WE ON TV?
Joined
Jan 15, 2006
Posts
1,512
Total Time
250.1
Regionals are just good time builders and stepping stone jobs... get the time, move on to better things and be happy.

just relAAX and enjoy life.

:)

Cheers!
Well its easy to relax when you have a good job...the regionals aren't a 'good job.'
 
Top