Gojet Class Starts

[pianoman]

Well, I'm no expert but I do have an idea here. I noticed that my copmany's contract was signed by, among others, Duane Woerth. Apparently he must also approve these contracts. Has he ever declined to sign one because he thought it would be harmful to ALPA pilots as a whole? It seems to me that should be one of his primary functions; to see the big picture. Each individual MEC negotiates on it's own, but national must approve the results. I think there should be some guidelines put out by national and any contract not meeting them doesn't get signed.

Does national actually have to sign to make it legal? If so, would this work? What would the ramifications be? What happens if it ends up deadlocked because the company will not agree to the national standards? I don't know the answer to any of these questions which is why I'm asking. You asked for views so please don't flame too much.

I believe DW did refuse to sign a contract for CCAir a few years back. Perhaps someone else knows more about it. I agree that perhaps this would be in our best interest on the national level, but it's easy to say Nat'l ALPA should tell the carriers what to sign and what not to sign until it's your carrier and you don't agree with Nat'l. That's why they try and let individual MEC's chart their own courses most of the time.

That said I wish they would intervene a little more now and then and set some sort of national pay scale.

 

[100LL... Again!]

National pay scales will likely never work for one reason:

The guys who are making top wages will not be willing to strike over OTHER pilot's compensation.

This argument is fruitless. We do NOT really have a national union. We have dozens of individual unions loosely bound by a national organization that is strong when it wants to be, and weak when it wants to be.

 

[AviatorTx]

I think if ALPA and its members really gave a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**, this situation would'nt be happening. I paid my dues along time ago and it really saddens me that not much has'nt changed..except that RJs are taking over the majority of the industry and its hard to scratch out a living flying them.

Only a nationwide "minimum wage" per type of aircraft would solve this problem. Even then, this would ONLY work if all airlines were union, and ALL the unions agreed to meet at least the minimum wage. I'll go by a lotto ticket instead.

As long as the golden spem clubbers are lined up at the door to take the 20000 first year jobs, the rate will not go up. When, and only when the airlines cannot continue to fill the seats because of the poor pay, will you see a change. Again, I'll go buy a lotto ticket instead of waiting for this to happen.

 

[100LL... Again!]

I would never turn down anyone but a real scab.

What a little baby. I'll bet some of those guys have been ALPA for quite a while.

GO ahead and shake your tiny little fist, small man.

 

[Kaman]

Hello,
The problem is that ALPA is just as slow to react to market forces and changes in the industry as managment is. What is needed is a fundamental paradigm in shift pilot contracts and negotiations. This is going to be a painful process that take a generation or two of pilots to change. The bad news is that the change is not going to be one that is favorable to pilots from a compensation point of view. Use whatever metaphor you like i.e., "Pandora's Box is open", "Cat is out of the Bag", "Genie is out of the bottle", etc... The precedent is already set and a new generation of pilots are being weaned on the tripe the pilot training industry is selling about breaking into the airline pilot profession.
The GoJets thing is managment taking advantage of this situation, and GoJets is not going to be the first or last of this kind of thing. They know that there are plenty of pilots will line up for these, so-called "dream jobs". Pilots are individualist to begin with for the most part, it's what makes us good at "on-the-fly" decision-making. I personally don't feel animosity toward the Freedom or GoJets guys, but I am saddened and disappointed to the point of disillusionment with the entire airline flying thing.
I would never deny the jumpseat to anyone, but thats basically because we are a non-union carrier. However, I can't say I would be thrilled with letting them ride other than keeping politics out of the J/S or so I've been told by most of the pilots I've flown with. I guess this would open another argumant on the definition of a "SCAB", but I don't think that GoJets would be considered SCAB labor only because they aren't SCABS by the traditional definition, so thats where I'm coming from on the J/S. I could be wrong, wouldn't be the first time.
Until ALPA's Executives grows a pair and stops pandering to the top 5% of the membership then we in the trenches will continue to find ourselves facing situations like GoJets again...

Regards,

ex-Navy Rotorhead

 

[pianoman]

I would never turn down anyone but a real scab.

What a little baby. I'll bet some of those guys have been ALPA for quite a while.

GO ahead and shake your tiny little fist, small man.

Then they should know better than to go work there, as should you. No j/s. ALPA just held a rally for the TSA pilots to try and stop this. That should be enough of an indication for anyone in the industry to avoid that place like the plague.

 

[ex j-41]

As long as the golden spem clubbers are lined up at the door to take the 20000 first year jobs, the rate will not go up. When, and only when the airlines cannot continue to fill the seats because of the poor pay, will you see a change. Again, I'll go buy a lotto ticket instead of waiting for this to happen.

We have all been there. It is because we have no choice. How many
times have you been told that you have to pay your dues. Well this
is what they are talking about. It sucks, but don't blame the newbies
cause they didn't negotiate the wage. ALPA and its MEC's did.
What new hire got to sit in front of HR and negotiate a their pay?

If you want to work in this industry then you have to live under the
rules and regulations set forth by your predecessors.

 

[135 Rocks!]

100LL...Again...

Your right on..... I have seen how ALPA treats the regionals over the years. Experienced it first hand. They can careless about anyone flying at a regional/commuter. Its always as a earlier poster said.. the "I got mine" attitude.

A cohort of mine is starting class there. He is a furloughed and got the blessing from his Union to work there. If there is alot of furloughed 121 guys going there I would be carefull of threating any list.. It could back fire on you for these guys will be back at the Big Show before any TSA guys will, also they have been in this small world business alot longer.

Right on, I'm one of those, and there are fuloughed pilots from several carriers represented in the first 3 classes that I know of personally. So when things turn around, and they will, we will have our own list of those that refused jumpseats.
Make sure that your current job is where you want to stay for your entire career, cuz my big brothers are watching my back now and when you come knocking for a job. You commuters are the last thing they care about.
Sorry, just stating the truth.
GO GoJet!

 

[BlackPilot628]

Right on, I'm one of those, and there are fuloughed pilots from several carriers represented in the first 3 classes that I know of personally. So when things turn around, and they will, we will have our own list of those that refused jumpseats.
Make sure that your current job is where you want to stay for your entire career, cuz my big brothers are watching my back now and when you come knocking for a job. You commuters are the last thing they care about.
Sorry, just stating the truth.
GO GoJet!

135 and Bankangle; Well said.
I'm not saying I totally agree with the Gojets airline, But I have some friends that left Corpex to go over.(About 6 people) They went to Go jets and I went to CHQ. I'm a firm believer in people needing jobs and if they think that's the best or only opportunity at the time, then they should take it. I'm not pretending to have some of the experience that much of you have, as I'm still a young thumper(23); but I don't see where refusing pilot the jumpseat is going to help your cause. They will just not jumpseat on TSA. Do you really think a UAL or America West guy is going to care about this and deny a Gojets pilot the jumpseat. He!! no. Their going to say get on, they don't have time for that. Then what are you going to do, Start dening UAL pilots your jumposeat? See how that works for you. The biggest problem I've seen in the airline industry thus far and post 9-11; is that everyone is against each other. (Everyone being airlines) How come us as pilots can't come together and all do they same thing, most of us tend to have the same views. If we would stick together no management could touch us. That whole southern comfort Piedmont days went out to door. We all need to stick together and do what will be right for us. But, as Bankangle said, Don't burn your bridges, you may be furloughed someday in need of feeding your wife and kids, keeping your mortgage up to date, and the pretty little BMW you drive. Once again, I don't pretend to have been in the industry that long, but I have eyes and ears just as everyone else does.

Good Luck TSA and GOjets guys, I hope you all come to some type of agreement.

 

[airjackson]

135ROCKS, It's a reach to even give you the bother of a reply, since you are more than likely full of $hit and only posting flame bait, but just in case.

Since you obviously have zero experience in airlines, here's a little lesson. Jumpseating is only allowed when a reciprocal jumpseat agreement exists between two carriers. Outside of that, there is no jumpseating. I will go out on a limb here and propose that GOJET will have an extremely hard time negotiating many reciprocal agreements with other carriers. So really, all of this hot air being expended is a waste since the poor GOJET pilot will, in all likelihood, not even get past the gate agent.

As for your veiled threat to "start your own list". Go ahead. And good luck. Seriously, think about your position. You are hopelessly wrong in your understanding of this industry and where the overwhelming sentiment is on the GOJET issue. Ask around. please. It's for your own good.