Go Around, BE PROFESSIONAL

[Hollywood82]

Last night while my FO was landing, and ATC put a Delta 757/767 close behind us(slotation). I saw my FO start to rush, and get nervous. I told him it's our runway till we turn off and do things how you normally would. I informed ATC that our approach speed would be 117KIAS.

On the roll out tower told DAL to go around. The response from one of the DAL pilots was an extremely unprofessional grunt followed by mumbling get off our runway. I know it sucks, and I'm sorry to that crew for the inconvenience, but my crew doesn't rush.

It really speaks volumes when my early 20s FO says "that's unprofessional" about a 30 - 60 something Legacy pilot.

Let's try to be more respectful to each other, please.

 

[PuffDriver]

Last night while my FO was landing, and ATC put a Delta 757/767 close behind us(slotation). I saw my FO start to rush, and get nervous. I told him it's our runway till we turn off and do things how you normally would. I informed ATC that our approach speed would be 117KIAS.

On the roll out tower told DAL to go around. The response from one of the DAL pilots was an extremely unprofessional grunt followed by mumbling get off our runway. I know it sucks, and I'm sorry to that crew for the inconvenience, but my crew doesn't rush.

It really speaks volumes when my early 20s FO says "that's unprofessional" about a 30 - 60 something Legacy pilot.

Let's try to be more respectful to each other, please.

You're right. The Delta crew should have KNOWN, via their experience, that you guys would screw up the system in Atlanta. Their bad.

 

[Hollywood82]

You're right. The Delta crew should have KNOWN, via their experience, that you guys would screw up the system in Atlanta. Their bad.

It's company policy to be Vapp from the OM inbound. What would you do? We have just as much of a right to be there as you. It sucks, but it's life!

 

[MJ42]

You're right. The Delta crew should have KNOWN, via their experience, that you guys would screw up the system in Atlanta. Their bad.

I second that! Also, I'm sure ATC asked for at least 170kts to the marker. You weren't flying into some GA airport. If you were going into ALT, those controllers are very good. They usually don't screw up spacing. My guess is you slowed too soon when ATC was expecting you to keep your speed up. At what point did you tell them you were going to fly 117kts?

 

[Ty Webb]

Get the flock out da way!

Fair enough, but professionalism is about more than "giving good radio", it also involves using your skills to fit in with the flow, and operate your aircraft accordingly. . . . .If they tell you 180 to the marker, that means 180 to-the-marker . . . not before . . stabilized approach criteria to most people means stabilized, at Vref by either 1000' AGL or 500 AGL, not Vref over the marker in Atlanta when you're almost 6 miles from the runway and the traffic behind you is overtaking you by 50 knots because he's doing what he was told.

If none of the above applies, then it's not directed at you . . . . if it does apply, maybe a new FO shouldn't be doing the leg that calls for operating in an environment he's not quite ready for. . . . maybe he could try operating at higher speeds somewhere less busy, until he's comfortable.

I'm just saayyin' . . . .

 

[Hollywood82]

Fair enough, but professionalism is about more than "giving good radio", it also involves using your skills to fit in with the flow, and operate your aircraft accordingly. . . . .If they tell you 180 to the marker, that means 180 to-the-marker . . . not before . . stabilized approach criteria to most people means stabilized, at Vref by either 1000' AGL or 500 AGL, not Vref over the marker in Atlanta when you're almost 6 miles from the runway and the traffic behind you is overtaking you by 50 knots because he's doing what he was told.

If none of the above applies, then it's not directed at you . . . . if it does apply, maybe a new FO shouldn't be doing the leg that calls for operating in an environment he's not quite ready for. . . . maybe he could try operating at higher speeds somewhere less busy, until he's comfortable.

I'm just saayyin' . . . .

Understood. We were holding 200 to 2NM from the OM, at which point we went flight idle, threw in flaps and gear and slowed to Vapp as per company policy. I can't change company policy. He did a fine job, and I wouldn't have done anything different.

For the record, we flew 280 till 10000, then 250 till underlying class B then 200 to the OM. It was max legal speed all the way.

 

[Cheeta]

Last night while my FO was landing, and ATC put a Delta 757/767 close behind us(slotation). I saw my FO start to rush, and get nervous. I told him it's our runway till we turn off and do things how you normally would. I informed ATC that our approach speed would be 117KIAS.

On the roll out tower told DAL to go around. The response from one of the DAL pilots was an extremely unprofessional grunt followed by mumbling get off our runway. I know it sucks, and I'm sorry to that crew for the inconvenience, but my crew doesn't rush.

It really speaks volumes when my early 20s FO says "that's unprofessional" about a 30 - 60 something Legacy pilot.

Let's try to be more respectful to each other, please.

Your story is so F'ed up in so many ways it's not even fun.....

First....get over your self....want to talk professional....stop using the term "MY" when refuring to the aircraft you fly and the follow crewmember you are flying with!......what a tool box!

Second....there is nothing wrong,within the safe operational envelope of the A/C, to try to help out the aircraft behind you that has been setup by ATC.

By your own admision you did nothing to help the situation....as a matter of fact your telling the FP not to do anything to help the situation.

The Crew behind you reacted the way they did because at 117 kts you should be able to clear the rwy with out delay and maybe just maybe make a earlier exit.

Want to talk "extremely unprofessional"....look inside "YOUR"flight deck....WTFO!

 

[Cheeta]

You're right. The Delta crew should have KNOWN, via their experience, that you guys would screw up the system in Atlanta. Their bad.

Ha!Ha!....now thats funny!

 

[75M]

Bottom line, it's still your plane to fly. Ty, with all due respect, I don't give a rat's butt what ATC "tells" me to do, If I don't intend to comply, I'll say, "unable", easy enough...If the citation crew had done that then ATC would have had the head's up to increase spacing enough to make it work.

As far as the DAL crew goes, if they saw that they were catching these guys, then the onus is on them to maintain adequate spacing. Maybe give ATC a head's up that they're catching the guy in front of them, but come on, neither ATC nor the guys in front of you are flying your plane.

 

[Hollywood82]

Your story is so F'ed up in so many ways it's not even fun.....

First....get over your self....want to talk professional....stop using the term "MY" when refuring to the aircraft you fly and the follow crewmember you are flying with!......what a tool box!

Second....there is nothing wrong,within the safe operational envelope of the A/C, to try to help out the aircraft behind you that has been setup by ATC.

By your own admision you did nothing to help the situation....as a matter of fact your telling the FP not to do anything to help the situation.

The Crew behind you reacted the way they did because at 117 kts you should be able to clear the rwy with out delay and maybe just maybe make a earlier exit.

Want to talk "extremely unprofessional"....look inside "YOUR"flight deck....WTFO!

Are you kidding?

We did everything we could to help, this isn't what your making it to be. We did everything as fast as we legally could, and Advised ATC of what our speed would be.

No need to get so mad, you're gonna give yourself a heart attack.

So you think the responce from the DAL crew was professional?

 

[FLYLOW22]

It's company policy to be Vapp from the OM inbound. What would you do? We have just as much of a right to be there as you. It sucks, but it's life!

Do you have a stabilized approach policy at your company? What was the prevailing weather like? VFR or IFR?

Adapt to the playground you are in. If the other boys and girls are playing at 140kts min, don't be a dink and fly at 117kts from the OM inbound. At least give em 140.

And I fly a Citation too but mine (for some reason) is capable of flying a higher speed approach and and then slowing to Vref +10 by the stabilized approach min altitude of 500AGL or 1000 above mins (whichever applies). Maybe it's the crew at the controls?

You give us Citation drivers a bad name because you can't fly your craft with respect to others around you.

Yes you can fly a Citation fast THEN slow to be stabilized by 500 or 1000 above mins. Happens all the time in PHL, DFW, ORD, JFK, SEA, SFO, LAX, DEN... need I go on?

Airports and runways don't belong to you or "them", true. But with a 30-50 kt closure rate, they CAN'T slow down (while you CAN stay a bit faster)... doesn't make what you did right.

They were within norms to dink you on the radio. I would have dinked you.

On top of that, our planes stop on a dime, there's no energy management to be concerned with as compared to a 140,000+ lb. plane.

You have no excuse and "company policy", as I've found it, usually makes more sense tempered with a dose of common sense in situations like this.

 

[General Lee]

Last night while my FO was landing, and ATC put a Delta 757/767 close behind us(slotation). I saw my FO start to rush, and get nervous. I told him it's our runway till we turn off and do things how you normally would. I informed ATC that our approach speed would be 117KIAS.

On the roll out tower told DAL to go around. The response from one of the DAL pilots was an extremely unprofessional grunt followed by mumbling get off our runway. I know it sucks, and I'm sorry to that crew for the inconvenience, but my crew doesn't rush.

It really speaks volumes when my early 20s FO says "that's unprofessional" about a 30 - 60 something Legacy pilot.

Let's try to be more respectful to each other, please.

If you stick to the assigned speeds (or your FO does it thanks to YOUR watching), then there really shouldn't be any goarounds. Controllers are usually pretty good at putting planes in slots, and can tell when spacing is getting tight. Depending on what runway you are on and the associated traffic, the Delta guy could have asked for a slight S-turn at worst. Sounds like you need to brief your FO on proper procedures and not rolling to the end. If you are an RJ or turboprop, the first highspeed is usually the one you should aim for. Larger planes usually go to the second.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Hollywood82]

Do you have a stabilized approach policy at your company? What was the prevailing weather like? VFR or IFR?

If it's VMC out there, adapt to the playground you are in. If the other boys and girls are playing at 140kts min, don't be a dink and fly at 117kts from the OM inbound. At least give em 140.

And I fly a Citation too but mine is capable of flying a higher speed approach and then slowing to Vref +10 by the stabilized approach min altitude of 500AGL or 1000 above Mins (whichever applies).

You give us Citation drivers a bad name because you can't fly your craft with respect to others around you.

Yes you can fly a Citation fast THEN slow to be stabilized by 500 or 1000 above mins. Happens all the time in PHL, DFW, ORD, JFK, SEA, SFO, LAX, DEN... need I go on?

Those airports and runways don';t belong to you or them but with a 30-50 kt closure rate because they CAN'T speed up (while you CAN stay a bit faster) doesn't make what you did right.

They were within norms to dink you on the radio. I would have dinked you.

On tip of that, our planes stop on a dime, there's no energy management to be concerned with as compared to a 140,000+ lb. plane.

You have no excuse and "company policy", as I've found it, usually makes more sense tempered with a dose of common sense in situations like this.

IMC for most of the app 500ft. If it was a visual it would be a different story.

 

[WSurf]

I say so what! You landed, they went around. Your feelings were that hurt that a Delta Pilot complained you had to run to your computer and post this on FI. This speaks volumes of what kinda person you are.

People go around all the time. No big deal, and he probably got a few extra dollars in his pocket to Fill you his Yukon.

 

[whymeworry?]

You operated per the book. You did fine.

Whether or not DAL was inconvenienced, it does not warrant them chastising you for their g/a. Their behavior was unprofessional. Ever heard of an S-turn, DAL?

 

[CopilotDoug]

Last night while my FO was landing, and ATC put a Delta 757/767 close behind us(slotation). I saw my FO start to rush, and get nervous. I told him it's our runway till we turn off and do things how you normally would. I informed ATC that our approach speed would be 117KIAS.

On the roll out tower told DAL to go around. The response from one of the DAL pilots was an extremely unprofessional grunt followed by mumbling get off our runway. I know it sucks, and I'm sorry to that crew for the inconvenience, but my crew doesn't rush.

It really speaks volumes when my early 20s FO says "that's unprofessional" about a 30 - 60 something Legacy pilot.

Let's try to be more respectful to each other, please.

It's not your fault if the DAL crew is already 3 hours late and trying to make up time

You guys did the right thing, you didn't get outside your limits and did not compromise safety. Nothing to apologize or feel sorry about.

 

[Avi8tor2000]

It's company policy to be Vapp from the OM inbound. What would you do? We have just as much of a right to be there as you. It sucks, but it's life!

Boo hoo. Keep your speed up, nerd.

 

[CA1900]

For the record, we flew 280 till 10000, then 250 till underlying class B then 200 to the OM. It was max legal speed all the way.

If you were going into ATL, why would you have been underlying Class B? Did they send you that far out on downwind below 2500 feet?

 

[General Lee]

I say so what! You landed, they went around. Your feelings were that hurt that a Delta Pilot complained you had to run to your computer and post this on FI. This speaks volumes of what kinda person you are.

People go around all the time. No big deal, and he probably got a few extra dollars in his pocket to Fill you his Yukon.

It might be fun to do go arounds in the sim, but today a go around is EXPENSIVE. If you have to go around, do it, otherwise, being prepared for an approach and being on speed is probably a better idea.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FLYLOW22]

IMC for most of the app 500ft. If it was a visual it would be a different story.

Ok then.

So long as you flew 20 to the marker (as assigned) and then configured and slowed to Vref +10 by 1000 above minimums for the ILS, you did all you could.

I don't envy the guys behind us though at these big airports.

The runway comes alot faster...