GM Flight Dept?

[atpcliff]

Hi!

The Big Three have been helping out the Japanese for years. Their biggest mistake was to send Edwards Deming packing instead of hiring him as a consultant.

He wanted to improve the efficiency of the automobile companies starting in the '50s. He was rejected by the former Big 3, and went to Japan, where companies like Toyota and Honda revered him.

Guess what happened?

cliff
YIP

 

[WW24dude]

So, is that a no?

 

[pilot22]

So, is that a no?

Gm says they will sell their corporate aircraft

 

[DrProc]

While GM is getting govt bailout, who is helping Honda or Toyota?

Is this not unlike a Ch.11 airline that drops airfare to bleed the non-Ch.11 carriers at the local hub?

Research the tax abatements offered to Honda, Toyota, etc. and you will discover that they have been getting help for years.

 

[satpak77]

Research the tax abatements offered to Honda, Toyota, etc. and you will discover that they have been getting help for years.

Ok I see. Like GM's 30M dollar tax abatement from the city of Arlington, Texas ? Story dated 1992.

http://tech.mit.edu/V112/N8/gm.08w.html

Or the 17M dollar one in 2001?

http://ref.michigan.org/medc/news/m...D-B25C-C673455D94F9&QueueId=2&ContentTypeId=7

I suppose the fact that Honda's Accord is far superior and was Motor Trend car of the year XXX years in a row, and is superior to a Old's Achieva, another mid-size, 4-door, front wheel drive sedan, or the Toyota Camry, America's best selling sedan (I wonder why?), which is another vehicle of high quality, I suppose the reported tax abatements given to Toyota and Honda (as observed above, GM got them also), are the reason they are so successful.

Yep, its Toyota's fault.

 

[LRvsH25B]

Ok I see. Like GM's 30M dollar tax abatement from the city of Arlington, Texas ? Story dated 1992.

http://tech.mit.edu/V112/N8/gm.08w.html

Or the 17M dollar one in 2001?

http://ref.michigan.org/medc/news/m...D-B25C-C673455D94F9&QueueId=2&ContentTypeId=7

Yeah, its Toyota's fault.

Hahahaha! Good on you! All these manufacturing companies (wind turbine, car parts, cars, etc) all get tax breaks for moving to a particular location. Cities fight over having a place like that come to town because of the massive # of jobs it brings along with it! Jobs=paycheck=tax revenue. People need to stop making excuses blaming the Toyota for the fall of the Big 3. It's pretty simple. US carmakers do have higher costs per car and a lot of that has to do with paying healthcare as most other countries offer healthcare as a right of being in that country, citizen or not. But when people like Hillary bring up socialized medicine, the Republicans light her up and talk about her wanting to make the US like Europe. Would a few European policies be such a bad thing right now over here in the US? Ask the pilots coming out of Detroit.

 

[satpak77]

Hahahaha! Good on you! All these manufacturing companies (wind turbine, car parts, cars, etc) all get tax breaks for moving to a particular location. Cities fight over having a place like that come to town because of the massive # of jobs it brings along with it! Jobs=paycheck=tax revenue. People need to stop making excuses blaming the Toyota for the fall of the Big 3. It's pretty simple. US carmakers do have higher costs per car and a lot of that has to do with paying healthcare as most other countries offer healthcare as a right of being in that country, citizen or not. But when people like Hillary bring up socialized medicine, the Republicans light her up and talk about her wanting to make the US like Europe. Would a few European policies be such a bad thing right now over here in the US? Ask the pilots coming out of Detroit.

Just remember that Honda and Toyota took all those American jobs and left starving kids in America.

oh wait, the Accord is manufactured in Ohio.

the Camry is manufactured in Kentucky.

well, anyway.....

 

[LRvsH25B]

Just remember that Honda and Toyota took all those American jobs and left starving kids in America.

oh wait, the Accord is manufactured in Ohio.

the Camry is manufactured in Kentucky.

well, anyway.....

And the Camero (you know, the heartbeat of America) is manufactured in Canada (was and will be)

Nissan maxima is built in Tennessee.

 

[G4G5]

You guys are pathetic, I looked up F on the NYSE and it stood for Ford, I looked up T and guess what it doesn't stand for Toyota. That's because it's NOT an American company.

The money goes out of the country and stays out of the country. It's controlled by and managed by foreigners.

Now get over this BS that they make cars here, big deal. Let me stop and think, is it because they care about the American worker or the American Economy? Heck NO! It's CHEAPER for them to do it, they improve their bottom line doing it, which means more profits go back to Japan (foreign soil). AKA Dollars Leave the US.

FYI Buick makes cars in China, Ford makes cars in Europe. Does that make GM a Chinese company?

 

[AA717driver]

G4G5--I KNOW my money is leaving the country. We tried to go back to Ford in the 90's.

They had this big push for quality and my uncles who are line and management at Ford said they had made huge strides in quality. (Considering the nightmare that was my dad's '84 T-bird, I can see their point.)

We bit and got a '92 Explorer. It generally worked ok but didn't have the interior quality that our '86, '90 and '91 Accords had but it was alright.

We sold that vehicle to my wife's sister. The tranny crapped out at 60,000 miles. Oops! Juuussst out of warranty.

Our next foray into the domestic market was the flagship Ford Expedition. Within the first 10,000 miles, accessory motors started dying. Then, on three separate occasions, we ran out of gas--with more than a quarter tank showing. And, it was bent--you know, like it needed a half a tweak of rudder trim.

We called Ford's much promoted customer care line after getting nowhere with our dealer. Their solution? They referred us back to the dealer. Great...

It was the closest I've ever come to committing insurance fraud by torching a vehicle.

G4G5, you know I'm from IND--deep in the heart of UAW territory. And, I'm a union member myself. But I know a bunch of line workers at Chrysler, GM and have numerous family members who worked the line at Ford and Cummins Diesel.

I've heard countless stories of drinking on the job--every day. It was expected that you go pound some beers at lunch. My uncle the supervisor at Ford was threatened with his life if "you make us work". Supervisors at Allison Transmission in Speedway have had their cars burned in the parking lot, tires slashed and windows broken in addition to the verbal threats. Workers who had a good work ethic were threatened with violence if they tried to do a good job.

My wife worked as a bank teller near a GM plant. Every payday, the workers would line up at the drive through and periodically go to the cooler in their trunk and get another beer while waiting. And this was on their LUNCH BREAK. They were going back to the plant to finish their shifts on a moving assembly line after pounding a few beers.

Are there good, hard workers in the auto industry? Absolutely. Are there more than a handful? I can say with certainty--NO!

So, yes, I'm sending my money overseas (same as you do when you fill your gas tank) because I won't reward bad quality and poor performance.

If that's unpatriotic, then so be it but it's no more so than screwing the public by building overpriced pieces of crap and trying to shame us into spending our hard-earned money on them.

Take care.
TC