Get ready for Age 67+

[Fubijaakr]

Well, I think I've made that clear. Age discrimination is illegal, except when it comes to airline pilots.

If someone can pass an FAA medical, they should be allowed to fly. After all, there are plenty of over 65 pilots flying some heavy corporate iron.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

I don't. Age 65 is part of the reason why I don't. It's not the only reason, I'll grant you that, but it sure didn't help.

And that is the simple truth about all this debate isn't it? Is where you fit into the equation and not really about anything scientific or medical, if the airlines were hiring 80 pilots a month as it was the case pre 9/11, you wouldn't hear a peep about age 65. You demand that the US goes out side of the rest of the ICAO members because the aviation market is where it is.

 

[flyboyike]

Well, I think I've made that clear. Age discrimination is illegal, except when it comes to airline pilots.

Well, that's not quite true now, is it? There are age limits in law enforcement, certain other government work (ATC, for example) and many other areas that you might not be aware of. It's just that only the pilot issue affects you, thus you don't care about any other instances of age discrimination.

You know, kind of like I care about how it's affected me, which apparently means I have a bad attitude. But let's forget about me personally, I'm ********************ed and that's all there is to it. Fine. But what about so many other wonderful people with a much better attitude? Why should they be, as you put it, "porked"?

 

[flyboyike]

And that is the simple truth about all this debate isn't it? Is where you fit into the equation and not really about anything scientific or medical, if the airlines were hiring 80 pilots a month as it was the case pre 9/11, you wouldn't hear a peep about age 65. You demand that the US goes out side of the rest of the ICAO members because the aviation market is where it is.

I don't demand anything, I'm expressing an opinion, there is a difference. There are countries and, furthermore, individual airlines that are more restrictive than ICAO on this (Cathay, for instance), and I don't hear much outrage over that.

 

[Fubijaakr]

Why do you assume you are owed promotion? Because you have a pilot's license? Get used to the idea...this is the game.

You pay your dues until you can hold that left seat. There are USAir 18 year F/Os on furlough. Them's the breaks of aviation. If you don't like it, call Truckmasters.

 

[flyboyike]

You pay your dues until you can hold that left seat. There are USAir 18 year F/Os on furlough. Them's the breaks of aviation. If you don't like it, call Truckmasters.

I'm cool with that. It's the dues constantly increasing that bothers me.

 

[Dan Roman]

Well, that's not quite true now, is it? There are age limits in law enforcement, certain other government work (ATC, for example) and many other areas that you might not be aware of. It's just that only the pilot issue affects you, thus you don't care about any other instances of age discrimination.

You know, kind of like I care about how it's affected me, which apparently means I have a bad attitude. But let's forget about me personally, I'm ********************ed and that's all there is to it. Fine. But what about so many other wonderful people with a much better attitude? Why should they be, as you put it, "porked"?

and strippers, don't forget them. I think we can all agree that age 65 is far more objectional for them than airline pilots.

 

[flyboyike]

and strippers, don't forget them. I think we can all agree that age 65 is far more objectional for them than airline pilots.

I most wholeheartedly agree. In fact, anything past 30 is too objectionable for them.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

I don't demand anything, I'm expressing an opinion, there is a difference. There are countries and, furthermore, individual airlines that are more restrictive than ICAO on this (Cathay, for instance), and I don't hear much outrage over that.

Of course, JAL and ANA both have set a retirement age at 60 although the regulations allow 65, but that is something pilots need to negotiate with their own union and companies. I am one who believes that there should be no age limit but rather medical fitness limits

 

[Dornier 335]

Of course, JAL and ANA both have set a retirement age at 60 although the regulations allow 65, but that is something pilots need to negotiate with their own union and companies. I am one who believes that there should be no age limit but rather medical fitness limits

Does CX still enforce mandatory retirement at 55? I think both BA and AF still do. LH is still 60.

 

[Bringupthebird]

So negotiate that into your next contract. What are you willing to trade away to get that?

 

[Flopgut]

For those who may not be aware, before you get too teary-eyed at Flopgut's "poor me" stories, remember that he has bypassed his upgrade in the past and is likely not even directly affected by the retirement age change. He likes to pretend he is on the side of the oppressed to garner either sympathy or popularity.

Hey, that sounds like someone using Stockholm Syndrome to control their victims! Bravo Flopgut, bravo!

I waited 10 months to hold it in base. Then flew captain for 2.5 years until I got displaced. I could go back but there's no movement, so I'm going to put some long-haul time on my resume.

I have to remember that you and Fubi aren't captains. There is a lot of stuff I say that you get fussy about but you just don't know any better. Flying captain is an eye opener. Senior FO means every trip you get shown the 35mm stack of pictures that include a bubba mansion, 2nd or 3rd wife, hot rods, airplanes, awkward picture of estranged adult children from first marriage, and of course a Harley. I flew captain with new guys and they had much different pictures. I'm not going to go into too much detail. Just want to say, that if you can have the same experience and it not change your viewpoint, there is something wrong with your genes. Age 65 took food off kid's plates and shoes off their feet so a bunch of old guys could keep their toys. That's it! And this rule change happened. Stop arguing like you're still waiting for it. Remember most pilots were saying they'd be out at 62 or 63 and it's not case. In fact, we're coming up on 1 year to go and no where do you here anything like: "This has been great, thanks for the extra years, I'm outta here, it's all yours kiddos, good luck!" No. Not at all. There is such an abundant lack of appreciation for the retirement age increase you'd think not a soul benefited from it. Obviously nothing will ever be enough for pilots like you guys. You're an embarrasment to the profession!

How much do you think you should be allowed to take from these young families? Enough is enough. Be grateful you got your way on 65 and be ready to leave with a gracious heart. Pass it on. If you want to keep flying go earn it again somewhere else.

 

[Fubijaakr]

OMG! Don't tell the Company and the FAA.

By the way, if your F/O wages aren't enough to properly support your family, perhaps YOU are failing them.

 

[zonejumper]

I waited 10 months to hold it in base. Then flew captain for 2.5 years until I got displaced. I could go back but there's no movement, so I'm going to put some long-haul time on my resume.

I have to remember that you and Fubi aren't captains. There is a lot of stuff I say that you get fussy about but you just don't know any better. Flying captain is an eye opener. Senior FO means every trip you get shown the 35mm stack of pictures that include a bubba mansion, 2nd or 3rd wife, hot rods, airplanes, awkward picture of estranged adult children from first marriage, and of course a Harley. I flew captain with new guys and they had much different pictures. I'm not going to go into too much detail. Just want to say, that if you can have the same experience and it not change your viewpoint, there is something wrong with your genes. Age 65 took food off kid's plates and shoes off their feet so a bunch of old guys could keep their toys. That's it! And this rule change happened. Stop arguing like you're still waiting for it. Remember most pilots were saying they'd be out at 62 or 63 and it's not case. In fact, we're coming up on 1 year to go and no where do you here anything like: "This has been great, thanks for the extra years, I'm outta here, it's all yours kiddos, good luck!" No. Not at all. There is such an abundant lack of appreciation for the retirement age increase you'd think not a soul benefited from it. Obviously nothing will ever be enough for pilots like you guys. You're an embarrasment to the profession!

How much do you think you should be allowed to take from these young families? Enough is enough. Be grateful you got your way on 65 and be ready to leave with a gracious heart. Pass it on. If you want to keep flying go earn it again somewhere else.

Please see my avatar.......:bawling:

 

[Flopgut]

Nice avatar. Reminds me more of the days just before the age change. All the old guys with their heads hung shuffling through the terminal. Crying to the FAs, the government, or anybody that would listen. It was like that old commercial with the Native American watching someone litter and a tear coming down his face. Or how about Prater's article "The FO Who Get's It". Anybody not remember the show they put on? Again, nice avatar. It suits you.

 

[zonejumper]

Nice avatar. Reminds me more of the days just before the age change. All the old guys with their heads hung shuffling through the terminal. Crying to the FAs, the government, or anybody that would listen. It was like that old commercial with the Native American watching someone litter and a tear coming down his face. Or how about Prater's article "The FO Who Get's It". Anybody not remember the show they put on? Again, nice avatar. It suits you.

Guess you're more confused than I thought. My avatar suits YOU since YOU'RE the one who's crying....

I think you and your compadres who bitch and moan about "your seat" are the most egotistical, self-centered "men" I've come across. Extremely unbecoming. I suggest you get over yourselves and deal the cards that are dealt you. Airline life isn't fair, but neither is life. NO ONE OWES YOU ANYTHING!

You look extremely childish and jealous of anyone who has more than you. I'd like to know where you get the hubris to compare what you have (or DON'T have) to men who were working in the industry before your parents even met.

 

[Flopgut]

You look extremely childish and jealous of anyone who has more than you. I'd like to know where you get the hubris to compare what you have (or DON'T have) to men who were working in the industry before your parents even met.

Parents? We're going to bring my parents into this? OK. Mom: Flight attendant. Dad: Airline pilot. Both hired in the early 60s and flew a DC3 together. Not big earners back then. Nobody at the airline was. Guys retiring back then got their start navigating between bonfires and were good pilots, durable and responsible people, and they lived comfortably. Not extravagantly. That generation back then is a lot like the generation we've got on deck I imagine. Money is an issue and needs to increase for them, but they are comfortable. What I'm trying to point out is that it is wrong to keep taking from them to give to the current group. Another age change now for the boomers is just throwing good money after bad.

I learned from my parents and I listened to what their experiences were with the generation before them. What we have at the moment is a generation who can't take care of themselves and needs to be cut off. Sure life isn't fair. We need to make sure that the next sh1t sandwich on the menu gets served to todays old guys.

 

[Fubijaakr]

We need to make sure that the next sh1t sandwich on the menu gets served to todays old guys.

Sorry, Junior. It won't happen. But you keep munching on yours, though.

 

[Flopgut]

Sorry, Junior. It won't happen. But you keep munching on yours, though.

It won't? You're sure? Hmmm..

Prediction: If the economy does not improve, and the retirement age does not increase again, the next big "crisis" will be age 60+ people who are insolvent, homeless, and who commit suicide. Airline pilots especially. Within 3 years airlines will have to provide retirement mental health services.

 

[dirkdigler]

the days when pilots are being pre-boarded on wheelchairs are coming... LMAO!!

 

[dicko]

I was flying with one of our oldest the other day. He can't hear. I mean he really can't hear anything. He's got these hearing aids that are about a 50/50 at best. So we get to the gate and we see the captain who brought it in and he's another one our oldest pilots. For some reason he's lost his voice. He can't talk; He's just moving his mouth and gesturing trying to be apologetic as he attempts to describe what he just wrote up. His mouth is moving, but there is no noise coming out. So the hearing aid captain starts screwing with his ears trying to adjust the hearing aids. Nothing. The other FO and myself made eye contact and I could tell we were both thinking the same thing. We bolted. We were both sick of making up for these guys. The gate area was full of customers and the FAs were there. But the FAs left them as well. I think it took about ten minutes until they finally decided to write messages to each other on the paperwork. .

One of the funniest posts I've ever read.

Priceless.

 

[sleeves]

Guess you're more confused than I thought. My avatar suits YOU since YOU'RE the one who's crying....

I think you and your compadres who bitch and moan about "your seat" are the most egotistical, self-centered "men" I've come across. Extremely unbecoming. I suggest you get over yourselves and deal the cards that are dealt you. Airline life isn't fair, but neither is life. NO ONE OWES YOU ANYTHING!

You look extremely childish and jealous of anyone who has more than you. I'd like to know where you get the hubris to compare what you have (or DON'T have) to men who were working in the industry before your parents even met.

He is dealing with the cards delt. You old guys are the ones who want to cry for a change cause it ain't fair you have to retire. Classic ME generation.

 

[nimtz]

Perhaps you haven't considered that airline flying IS someone's hobby. A hobby that pays $175K a year.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Thanks that made my night. After the last decade any dope that considers this job a hobby is guaranteed to have an few sexually unsatisfied significant others. It's pathetic just how strong the tool factor really is in this profession.

 

[Bringupthebird]

I have to remember that you and Fubi aren't captains.

Someone better get ahold of payroll. There's gonna be some heads rollin' over this one!

There is a lot of stuff I say that you get fussy about but you just don't know any better. Flying captain is an eye opener. Senior FO means every trip you get shown the 35mm stack of pictures that include a bubba mansion, 2nd or 3rd wife, hot rods, airplanes, awkward picture of estranged adult children from first marriage, and of course a Harley. I flew captain with new guys and they had much different pictures. I'm not going to go into too much detail. Just want to say, that if you can have the same experience and it not change your viewpoint, there is something wrong with your genes.

There's so much babble here, it's not worth the time to dissect.

Age 65 took food off kid's plates and shoes off their feet so a bunch of old guys could keep their toys. That's it!

Really? Tell a ramper in the aft bag bin that the pilot making the 6 figure salary has starving barefoot kids! Typical liberal! Overreaches and it bites you.

And this rule change happened. Stop arguing like you're still waiting for it.

Flopster, if you re-read the beginning of this thread you'll see that I project Age 65 to remain in place for at least 10 more years.

What it all boils down to is that you couldn't care less about barefoot starving kids in Prep School. You want to pit one group against another and blame someone for your self-imposed shafting.

BTW-Why are you as a senior F/O's staying at the top of the bid list, ruining the chances of the guys junior to you who might want Christmas off so they can see their kids open an empty shoe box before heading down to the soup kitchen for dinner! Sounds mighty selfish to me, Flopster, might selfish.

 

[zonejumper]

He is dealing with the cards delt. You old guys are the ones who want to cry for a change cause it ain't fair you have to retire. Classic ME generation.

It's eerie how well you have us pegged.......

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Thanks that made my night. After the last decade any dope that considers this job a hobby is guaranteed to have an few sexually unsatisfied significant others. It's pathetic just how strong the tool factor really is in this profession.

Man, now THAT'S a stretch if I ever saw one. So your theory is someone who enjoys their job after many years is a sexual clod AND a tool. Wow...just wow. If you dudes don't enjoy YOUR job and feel the old geezers are shafting you, why don't YOU quit and let some other guy with starving kids have a chance. Sheesh...

 

[nimtz]

Man, now THAT'S a stretch if I ever saw one. So your theory is someone who enjoys their job after many years is a sexual clod AND a tool. Wow...just wow. If you dudes don't enjoy YOUR job and feel the old geezers are shafting you, why don't YOU quit and let some other guy with starving kids have a chance. Sheesh...

A job is a job, not a hobby as the previous quoted post suggests genius. Funny 10 years ago I seem to remember major airline pilots who were really hard up for ideas having a hobby like flying their Bonanza to Myrtle for a weekend of golf. According to you now it's all about cramming in that productive 7.5 hour turn in on Friday. I go to work to make a living, not to feel fulfilled in life. If you feel otherwise congrats on being a pathetic loser. Thankfully, especially given the cr@p funnel this profession has eaten in the last decade, there is a lot more to life then flying big jets.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Yeah, like arguing on the internet.

 

[Flopgut]

Here's the problem: Pilots that were desiring of seeing the retirement age increased got what they wanted. To the detriment of many. And now they do not have a shred of appreciation for it. It is as though nothing was done for them. With the exception of this very small amount of arguing on the internet, the marginalized generation have taken it in stride. Certainly with far more professionalism than the cake eaters could have mustered.

 

[nimtz]

Yeah, like arguing on the internet.

I'm on a 50 hour unproductive layover in the middle of nowhere. That doesn't afford the luxury of many of my pursuits in life which includes exercise/outdoors (unlike far too many lard @ss airline pilots). Ironically some of the guys who pledged to punch out at 62 are probably waiting for the perfect Junior manning "opportunity" to crop up this weekend to help "make up for what those b@stards stole from me!"

Four years ago I held Labor Day weekend off easily. I wonder what changed since then? Guess I'll wait around and maybe one day I'll realize how super awesome this career is after 60. Then I can tell the punk kids "I only need two more years then I'm gone at 72 I SWEAR!"

 

[Flopgut]

BTW-Why are you as a senior F/O's staying at the top of the bid list, ruining the chances of the guys junior to you who might want Christmas off so they can see their kids open an empty shoe box before heading down to the soup kitchen for dinner! Sounds mighty selfish to me, Flopster, might selfish.

Yeah I've got three kids at home that I would like to have a normal relationship with. So I've decided to hold off upgrade again. That, and I honestly think I might need the long-haul time because this UAL thing may not work out.

These FOs aren't indigent. My point is they are a reasonable spenders and solid professionals. IE: not the current over 60 type that thinks they are hip hop stars....

And btw, why don't you go out to the ramp, or the rampers break room, and describe to them your vision on how a retirement age change should affect seniority and then see if you can walk back up the jetway stairs with a towbar sticking out of your butt? They would not tolerate a guy like you for a nano second....