Get ready for Age 67+

[Fubijaakr]

Probably as much as Gen Xers with entitlement complexes amuse me.

 

[zonejumper]

Yep. You're the best of the best. You could part the Red Sea.
There. Did I stroke your ego enough? People with Napoleon complexes crack me up.

So, Fubi is a short, French guy AND an old fart to boot?!

 

[fullsail]

Hey Fubi,

I heard XO Jet is hiring. You can fly "til you're 95. Think about how great that would be. Showing those 50 year old "kids" how it's done. You'll get that age discrimination thing licked! Let us know how it goes for ya...

 

[Flopgut]

Hey Fubi: How many avatars are you going to have tonight? I notice they keep degenerating into weirder pictures of of increasingly younger men you weirdo. Cool it. Us normal people don't like that. Hey, you know junior, old guys like you rank a considerable distant second to the guy who operates the tug on pushback as to how much you can actually be counted on? It's true...

 

[Fubijaakr]

Floppy,

Glad you have such a grandiose opinion of what you bring to the operation. Gear up, Sonny.

 

[Flopgut]

Good Lord you have another avatar! And it's a cartoon no less! You're creepy dude. And, btw, you wouldn't be senior enough over here for me to jerk gear for you. And as soon as somebody buys that airline you're flying for, your visions of retiring a captain will be over.

 

[BrickTop]

I wonder how many of the kids have the balls to tell the geezers they should get the hell out of "their" seat.....

Any Geezer who wants to talk can meet me in ORD at the train station just outside the glass doors and I'll teach you all about balls. Or you can just fly to my hometown in middle Iowa and we can take a walk to my farm.......

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Implement JAA medical standards in the US and you'd have a HUGE pilot shortage.

I agree, since all you really need to do to get a US first class medical is fog a mirror. Forget the 60 year olds, what about the 35 year olds walking in the terminals that are 60 pounds over weight and carrying a McDonalds bag. Every month when I come home for my days off it takes me e few minutes to get over the initial shock

 

[Fubijaakr]

Floppy,

Speaking of avatars, thanks for putting up your daughter's picture. She's sweet.

 

[Empennage]

It should have been an easy solution. When changing from age 60 to age 65 all you had to do was raise the age 1 year every 2 years. So year 1 it goes to 61. Two years later it goes to 62. Two years later it goes to 63. So on an so forth.

It wasn't handled appropriately however. As a result of such, you will not see it go past 65. Too many people have been hurt by the change and the way it was handled.

Move on.

 

[Fubijaakr]

It wasn't handled appropriately however. As a result of such, you will not see it go past 65. Too many people have been hurt by the change and the way it was handled.

I think you're right, Emp. However, it may go higher because the people who make the rules don't give a crap about how many pilot careers were hurt.

 

[chqflyer]

I wanna fly until they pry the yoke from my cold, dead fingers.




Actually, HELL NO! I'm in my thirties and ready to punch outta this crazy business already. Who in their right mind would want to fly 'til they die?

 

[Fubijaakr]

Actually, HELL NO! I'm in my thirties and ready to punch outta this crazy business already. Who in their right mind would want to fly 'til they die?

So go. There's someone who will gladly take your seniority number.

 

[Empennage]

I think you're right, Emp. However, it may go higher because the people who make the rules don't give a crap about how many pilot careers were hurt.

The roadblock will be much too high this time.

It's like anything else, you handle it well and you will have a chance later. That did not happen.

Swapa nor alpa will be willing to support further changes. Remember the reasons for changing? A pilot shortage? With unemployment nearing 10%, even a dem president would walk away from the trouble this would further cause.

 

[Andy]

I agree, since all you really need to do to get a US first class medical is fog a mirror. Forget the 60 year olds, what about the 35 year olds walking in the terminals that are 60 pounds over weight and carrying a McDonalds bag. Every month when I come home for my days off it takes me e few minutes to get over the initial shock

Yep. Hence the double entendre in my post. Reread it. I hope you'll find the humor.

 

[Fubijaakr]

The real reason it changed wasn't SWAPA, ALPA or a pilot shortage. The simple reason it changed was to bring our regs in line with ICAO regs. That's why it sailed through Congress without a blink.

But, your comment about implementation is well thought out. However, I think it bears repeating that the "powers that be" don't give a hoot about pilot career progression. All they care about is butts in the seats.

 

[Flopgut]

Floppy,

Speaking of avatars, thanks for putting up your daughter's picture. She's sweet.

Yeah, well I'm sorry if the image of a woman ruined your evening of punching your clown....

 

[Andy]

The real reason it changed wasn't SWAPA, ALPA or a pilot shortage. The simple reason it changed was to bring our regs in line with ICAO regs. That's why it sailed through Congress without a blink.

But, your comment about implementation is well thought out. However, I think it bears repeating that the "powers that be" don't give a hoot about pilot career progression. All they care about is butts in the seats.

Nope. It was sold as saving the social security system some coin. That makes another age change a pretty easy sell on Capital Hill.
For the major airlines, the reduced training events save more than a few hull losses. So they supported the change.
It all comes down to money.

 

[Empennage]

The real reason it changed wasn't SWAPA, ALPA or a pilot shortage. The simple reason it changed was to bring our regs in line with ICAO regs. That's why it sailed through Congress without a blink.

But, your comment about implementation is well thought out. However, I think it bears repeating that the "powers that be" don't give a hoot about pilot career progression. All they care about is butts in the seats.

It sailed through once alpa supported. Yes ICAO regs were a driving force.

No point to revisit this. It doesn't do any of us any good.

 

[Fubijaakr]

Nope. It was sold as saving the social security system some coin. That makes another age change a pretty easy sell on Capital Hill.
For the major airlines, the reduced training events save more than a few hull losses. So they supported the change.
It all comes down to money.

Sorry, Andy, but neither of those opinions make any sense.

1. Airline pilots aren't eligible for early SS. How does that save SS money? You lost me on that one.
2. How many U.S. hull losses have there been since the rule changed? One. And that was attributed to YOUNG pilot error not OLD pilot error. So that argument is bogus as well.

What else you got?

Age 65 came about because ICAO went Age 65. If ICAO goes Age 70, the U.S. standard will change just as quickly.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Age 65 came about because ICAO went Age 65. If ICAO goes Age 70, the U.S. standard will change just as quickly.

I'm sorry that you have to find out this way, but the US is an ICAO member

 

[Andy]

Sorry, Andy, but neither of those opinions make any sense.

1. Airline pilots aren't eligible for early SS. How does that save SS money? You lost me on that one.
2. How many U.S. hull losses have there been since the rule changed? One. And that was attributed to YOUNG pilot error not OLD pilot error. So that argument is bogus as well.

What else you got?

Age 65 came about because ICAO went Age 65. If ICAO goes Age 70, the U.S. standard will change just as quickly.

You become eligible for SS at age 62. That's early SS. Need a link? I'll provide one.

Airlines crunch the numbers. Cost-benefit analysis. They already have a precomputed 'pricetag' for a hull loss.

 

[Whataburger]

That's bull$hit. I'm gonna need some more help for the extra 730 days.

 

[Fubijaakr]

I'm sorry that you have to find out this way, but the US is an ICAO member

No kidding? That's exactly my point. The ONLY reason Age 65 went through so fast was ICAO passed it. Foreign pilots were exercising their privileges in US airspace while US pilots were forbidden.

Of all the ICAO members, only 4 voted against Age 65, the US being one. Eventually, if we wanted to remain in ICAO we had to relent.

So the Congress made it happen in record time.

 

[Andy]

Fubiji, for your reading enjoyment: http://www.casact.org/pubs/forum/03wforum/03wf379.pdf

We're all expendable. You and I use oxygen and food for fuel. An aircraft uses jet fuel. Both the aircraft and you/I have an actuarial price tag.

 

[Bringupthebird]

I agree, since all you really need to do to get a US first class medical is fog a mirror.

Really? Clue me in on how to fake a diabetes test or the EKG that is sent directly to OKC without any involvement with the local AME. Yeah, you could add some more blood tests, but you'd have to either make the medical conditional based on the results of said tests, or have to come back in so that the AME could sign your medical certifying you on the basis of all the results. It could be done, but are there a lot of pilots keeling over on the job relative to the general population?

I know a wide variety of pilots who have lost their medicals; from the stereotypical slob to the guy who looks like he should be the starting QB for the Colts. Just because it's easy doesn't mean it always will be.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Really? Clue me in on how to fake a diabetes test or the EKG that is sent directly to OKC without any involvement with the local AME. Yeah, you could add some more blood tests, but you'd have to either make the medical conditional based on the results of said tests, or have to come back in so that the AME could sign your medical certifying you on the basis of all the results. It could be done, but are there a lot of pilots keeling over on the job relative to the general population?

I know a wide variety of pilots who have lost their medicals; from the stereotypical slob to the guy who looks like he should be the starting QB for the Colts. Just because it's easy doesn't mean it always will be.

I was making a humorous comment just to make my point but regardless of what is involved, the medical standard for a first class medical in the US are a lot lower than those of other countries, I don't know if you have any other license than the US ATP. I have taken medicals under three different CAA's and just by personal observation I can assure you that our standards in the US are quite relaxed in comparison

 

[Sacha]

I was making a humorous comment just to make my point but regardless of what is involved, the medical standard for a first class medical in the US are a lot lower than those of other countries, I don't know if you have any other license than the US ATP. I have taken medicals under three different CAA's and just by personal observation I can assure you that our standards in the US are quite relaxed in comparison

Just because they are tougher doesn't mean they are relevant. For instance, laser eye correction used to forbidden under the JAA 20 years ago. Did that make sense? Is it still forbidden? Meanwhile over here, Astronauts are permitted I believe to have the procedure. It's just like 30 years ago having to have 20/20 to get in the door at almost all airlines and the military. It just narrowed the pool. It didn't have a damn thing to do with safety. My best friend barely squeaked by the eye exam going into the Air Force 30 years ago.
He said "doc, alls I ever wanted to be was a fighter pilot. What happens next year if my vision goes to 20/40?" the doc said son after you walk out of here and I sign this piece of paper, i don't care if you have a guide dog and a white cane, if your good enough to fly fighters, you'll fly fighters. He was and he did. He later went to American. He got there just after they stopped doing the Astronaut physicals. 5 or 6 years earlier, he wouldn't have passed the physical because of his eyesight. Imagine, all the time in f4's and an f16 ip at Luke. A triathlete and champion surfer, yet not physically qualified to get hired by American?

 

[list2002]

To the original post, I, as well as most guys I knew were against age 65 from the time we heard about it. I did one phone survey by ALPA and the next thing I know it was implemented, IMMEDIATELY.
I think it would be a hard sell to push it further without a HUGE public awareness campaign by many pilots, union endorsed or not.

 

[Flopgut]

You become eligible for SS at age 62. That's early SS. Need a link? I'll provide one.

We have had right around 200 retire from CAL after the age was changed to 65. For those who pay attention, those pilots set a good example. Unfortunately we have guys like Fubi we all have to take care of, who it's abundantly clear doesn't even understand SS.