G5 SIC slots

[DieselDragRacer]

This is so true....of the baby boomer generation. The quote should be "I'm staying, I deserve it, and I don't care about anyone else".

See, the baby boomers parent's retired, enjoyed their grandchildren, hobbies, and their sunset years.

The baby boomers on the other hand are not retiring. Across all industries they want to stay on the top of the world for ever. They feel like they deserve staying on top and are indulging in their greed. And honestly I think it's sad that many have worked hard in their lives and will not enjoy the rewards of their work because they will pass on, while still working. And the fact is, these group of individuals (talking about pilots) got to experience the greatest airline expansion in history during their career period. Even if they got furloughed 6 times in their career due to the turbulent post-regulation era, the airlines were expanding so fast, many rose up the ranks swiftly and sat in the right seat only a fraction of their career.

Fast forward to today. We have already witnesses the "lost decade" in which the airlines have done little hiring and many never recovered from 9/11. Many pilots are permanently locked in the right seat and the age 65 rule added to the problem. FO's are always first to get furloughed and when they do get another job, it's back to the bottom of a none-moving line. No expansion, no retirements, just stagnation, and no hope of having a great career. Today's Pilots (FOs) will spend far more of their career as FO than CA, a reverse from the previous generation.

So please excuse the ones that are called the "entitled ones" for looking over to a guy in their late 60s sitting to their left and ask if he is going to retire. Maybe the "entitled one" earned his upgrade by sitting a decade+ in the right seat and has a right to the captain seat. It's a bit agonizing for FOs to hear how "captain x" was a captain for 25+ years at airline "x" and then walked over to a fractional, was handed another captain slot as soon as they got hired, and wont retire until their pulse stops. I would say that the "entitled one" has had a rougher career and has earned their left seat!

Yes the baby boomers aren't retiring and many will never retire, but it's not necessarily because they're greedy. Unlike the baby boomers parents, who lived in the same craftsman home for 50 years and retired off of a pension, millions of baby boomers chose to keep buying/mortgaging bigger homes, bigger boats and better cars every time they got an extra $100/week raise all while not putting any/enough money away for retirement.

The current generation of retired baby boomers has record credit card debt, a mortgage and even back in '06 they said the average baby boomer only had an avg of $60K in retirement savings.

Unlike their parents, keeping up with the Jones has come full circle to bite the boomers in the arse.

 

[jonjuan]

Yes the baby boomers aren't retiring and many will never retire, but it's not necessarily because they're greedy. Unlike the baby boomers parents, who lived in the same craftsman home for 50 years and retired off of a pension, millions of baby boomers chose to keep buying/mortgaging bigger homes, bigger boats and better cars every time they got an extra $100/week raise all while not putting any/enough money away for retirement.

The current generation of retired baby boomers has record credit card debt, a mortgage and even back in '06 they said the average baby boomer only had an avg of $60K in retirement savings.

Unlike their parents, keeping up with the Jones has come full circle to bite the boomers in the arse.

The ironic thing is that if you were in their shoes....you would be in their shoes.

 

[rajflyboy]

OJ..I'm talking about the poster who believes the 70 y/o should leave to make an opportunity for a younger pilot. It's his job; he should be able to stay until he decides to leave or unable to pass muster. JMHO.

Ok

I will be your huckleberry

Why do you need to keep flying at 70 years old?

Why not give something back to the younger guys for the great career that you had?

 

[doylehargraves]

If you are over 65'ish, maybe 68, you need to seriously get the F..K out. I don't care if your pension was lost and I don't care that your 401k has shrunk to nothing. That is poor financial planning on your part, your fault, not ours.

I have not flown with a guy over 65 yet that did not have some kind of problem with something, whether it be, not being able to lift luggage, shut the door, forget the after takeoff items, "I can't see the runway", miss a taxi turn, and so on.... It's a fact, your decision making abilities significantly deteriorate at those age ranges, accept it, know it, and get out.

 

[cldsfr79]

Seniority rules.

Seniority, although it seems fair by allowing the person who has been working the longest awarded the opportunities, it is an out dated system that promotes the wrong people.

Can you imagine if the military, corporations, police, government, etc get promoted based on an individual being next in line. Our country would be even more dysfunctional than it is now. Talent that should be in charge would be buried deep in a list and the people awarded power may be unable to lead.

With this concept, look back at aviation. Most guys do a great job, but their are many out there that shouldn't be captains and are put into positions that their seniority awards them. In my opinion, pilots should be promoted based on their training scores, manner, and ability. Letter of recommendations from fellow pilots and evaluations by instructors should determine promotions. Kind of like how executives interview low level employees to promote them.

It's no secret among NJ pilots that their are a lot of tools in the tool shed among the pilot group. Prior to 2000 when airlines were still hiring and while NJ was growing like gang-busters they hired any stray cat that came into the door. If you had a pulse and a pilot certificate, you had a job. Recruiters would walk into FBOs and ask guys if they want to work at NJ, and they would also find out where pilots were getting furloughed or walking pick-it lines and just offer them jobs. I remember in recurrent once, the company provided a personality/leadership test. Only 10% out of 40 scored in the teamwork/leadership role. And 70% fell into a delegate/laissez-faire role (which was noted in the printed results that these individuals show weakness in authority and may show complacency in operation). Now these guys the, the most senior in the company have free reign in the company; they can do what they want and hold what they want. Not all are bad apples, but a huge chunk are. If having to actually re-interview for their job or pass evaluations to hold their captain position, there is a great possibility they would fail.

 

[OPECJet]

OJ..I'm talking about the poster who believes the 70 y/o should leave to make an opportunity for a younger pilot. It's his job; he should be able to stay until he decides to leave or unable to pass muster. JMHO.

Fair enough. Part of me agrees with you. My wallet however.....:smash:

 

[OPECJet]

Yes the baby boomers aren't retiring and many will never retire, but it's not necessarily because they're greedy. Unlike the baby boomers parents, who lived in the same craftsman home for 50 years and retired off of a pension, millions of baby boomers chose to keep buying/mortgaging bigger homes, bigger boats and better cars every time they got an extra $100/week raise all while not putting any/enough money away for retirement.

The current generation of retired baby boomers has record credit card debt, a mortgage and even back in '06 they said the average baby boomer only had an avg of $60K in retirement savings.

Unlike their parents, keeping up with the Jones has come full circle to bite the boomers in the arse.

You're dead nuts right. The trickle down from this is folks my age will not get the chance to enjoy the lifestyle our parents did. The opportunity isn't there.

 

[rajflyboy]

You're dead nuts right. The trickle down from this is folks my age will not get the chance to enjoy the lifestyle our parents did. The opportunity isn't there.

You are forgetting about the fat cat pensions that many employers used to have and no longer do.

Only the government employee's have the big pensions now

Yes. You are paying tax dollars for many people to live big

 

[OPECJet]

You are forgetting about the fat cat pensions that many employers used to have and no longer do.
No, I think those lost pensions are the reason behind baby boomers working past the traditional retirement age. Sure there's some who are married to Helga and "enjoy the flying", but I think they're the exception.
Only the government employee's have the big pensions now

Yes. You are paying tax dollars for many people to live big Not so. I'm working for a Gov't Contractor now. The Gov't folks I work with have a version of a 401K and must contribute just as we do. Their insurance benefits are more expensive than what we have. The only place they have a benefit advantage over the private sector is in leave. They are also under an ever present threat of a RIF. Couple in the hiring freeze that's on right now and workloads have been steadily and rapidly increasing as the budget cuts are answered with early retirements and those positions are not backfilled. I've heard the rhetoric from Rush about Gov't employees and he's flat wrong, at least at the Federal level. It's not the cake job it used to be.

..........

 

[realityman]

the old farts that won't go away. That's MUCH, MUCH worse.... a few months ago i had recurrent with a 70 year old guy. This dying dinosaur has no live at home, so he hangs around and takes an opportunity away from a younger guy. Selfish A-HOLE...It pisses me off to no end

Were you in my recurrent class? I was in recurrent a few months ago and my sim partner was/is 72. No life at home and he only does this to get out of the house.

He is one of the old guys that has a reputation for doing NOTHING except flying the plane (no bags, interior cleaning, Jepp revisions, etc...).

However, he is still sharp as a tack mentally, and flies the plane very well. Based on his physical condition and mental and motor skills in the aircraft, there is absolutely no reason to remove him from the cockpit. And he has many years of invaluable experience if the brown stuff hits the fan.

On the other hand, based on the fact that there is a lot more to this job than just flying (bags, interior cleaning, Jepp revisions, etc...), if he can't, or won't, do ALL the work that comes with this particular job, then I agree, he should get out.

I just finished a tour with a guy who is in his upper 60's. Based on his performance doing the ENTIRE job, I can find no good reason to force or ask him to leave his position. The guy was sharp, exercised good judgement, flew very well, and did all the other heavy lifting (including throwing bags and moving the raft in and out of the aircraft). I've flown with much younger guys here who did a lot less.

As for the rest of it, it's a personal decision. I think that if you set a goal for retirement (for example, I will retire when I have $2 million in my 401K) then it is the right thing to do to retire when that goal is met. There are younger folks who are just starting out, struggling, with families who could use the pipeline to move a bit more in order to have a shot at it. The trouble is, you just don't know someone's personal circumstances.

I really enjoyed the guy on here who said if your pension vanishes and/or your 401K tanks that it's your fault and you should have planned better. Spoken like someone who has yet to have life really kick them in the balls! Not to mention the absolute ridiculousness of saying someone should be able to forecast what a company will do with a pension or what the market is going to do with your 401K. How about a serious illness in a family member that may not have medical insurance? Suppose a pilot helps out a nephew with Leukemia, in order to keep him from dieing. That may take a huge financial toll to supply that help. Poor planning from the pilot? Please. That's BS. The pilot made a good moral decision, but then should be forced out of the cockpit while his finances are in shambles just because someone younger thinks it's their turn?

As I said, I think there are times when the older pilot should make the ethical decision to retire, especially if they've met their own personal goals to retire on. But the younger folks may be closing doors they might need later in life if we start forcing people out just because they believe it's their turn. It'd be a real karmic bitch to grow old, have life take a nasty turn on you later in life, and then listen to some younger creep tell you that it's only because of poor planning that you're in the situation you're in and you should get out.

Be careful what you wish for.

 

[rajflyboy]

..........

You are mostly uninformed about government retirements. Many of the government workers who retire actually get a pay raise >> because they also collect social security on top of what they collect in retirement.

Although in the future I hope these types of retirements go away. This country can't afford it.

 

[Semore Butts]

Why not give something back to the younger guys for the great career that you had?

What exactly did they give to me that I need to give something back to them?

Trust me young geniuses, I'm saving as much as I can to get out of your way.

I always hear these young guys talk about how messed up some of these old guys are. I would be curious to hear the old guys opinion of these very same young guys?

Where will you be in 5 years? I promise, you don't know. (Divorced? Being sued? Terminaly ill?)

I'm glad I didn't waste alot of time responding to this thread....Geez, what a goat screw!

 

[shroomwell]

If you are gonna have 2 million in your 401k at retirement and be young enough to enjoy it, than you ought to get into the hedge fund business.

There is no way you will get that kind of return from max contributions to get to 2 million.

 

[OPECJet]

You are mostly uninformed about government retirements. Many of the government workers who retire actually get a pay raise >> because they also collect social security on top of what they collect in retirement.

Although in the future I hope these types of retirements go away. This country can't afford it.

We don't represent the entire Gov't retiree population, but my family hasn't seen it. Dad spent 30+ yrs working for the Army, uncle spent 30+ working for the state of NJ. Neither hit the lottery upon retirement.

Talking to the guys in the office getting ready to hit the door, they aren't leaving as millionaires either. The younger guys in here have the same type of retirement we do, just under a different name.

Used to be that you traded salary for job security and retirement by going to work for Uncle Sam. Now, you get paid more than the private sector but lost the retirement and job security unless you claim veterans preference.

 

[BentOver]

If you are gonna have 2 million in your 401k at retirement and be young enough to enjoy it, than you ought to get into the hedge fund business.

There is no way you will get that kind of return from max contributions to get to 2 million.

If you maxed it out for 30 years it's $720K....Compounded interest, dividens and such one could easily reach 2 million assuming they started young and retired around 65...